TRT Dosage advice?

[50BMGdoesitforme]

Hey all - I started TRT about a year ago, 100mg TC x2/week. Tests kept coming back T>1500 and the doc didn't seem at all concerned, so I dropped myself to 70mg x2 a month ago and saw improved sexual function. Still lots of room for improvement but getting better.

Blood test yesterday, the day before injection, and I was at T=526. Also of note is that when I dropped myself to 70mg I also began injecting my TC SubQ and changed my HCG protocol to 100 IU (also SubQ) every morning.

So - the late, great Dr. Crisler encouraged starting low and going slow, so while I'm guessing that 80mg x2 TC might be my sweet spot, should I give 75mg x2 a shot for a month first? 526 is fairly low for TRT numbers, but I understand that T dosage vs. total T is not at all linear, since 70% of the dose yielded less than 30% the T number.

Sure appreciate the advice, gents!

 

[swoops36]

Are you married to the SQ idea? Cos I’d keep your current 70mgx2 and do it IM. You may see the numbers go up and your symptoms go away

 

[Vince]

Hey all - I started TRT about a year ago, 100mg TC x2/week. Tests kept coming back T>1500 and the doc didn't seem at all concerned, so I dropped myself to 70mg x2 a month ago and saw improved sexual function. Still lots of room for improvement but getting better.

Blood test yesterday, the day before injection, and I was at T=526. Also of note is that when I dropped myself to 70mg I also began injecting my TC SubQ and changed my HCG protocol to 100 IU (also SubQ) every morning.

So - the late, great Dr. Crisler encouraged starting low and going slow, so while I'm guessing that 80mg x2 TC might be my sweet spot, should I give 75mg x2 a shot for a month first? 526 is fairly low for TRT numbers, but I understand that T dosage vs. total T is not at all linear, since 70% of the dose yielded less than 30% the T number.

Sure appreciate the advice, gents!

It would be nice to see more of your labs. Estrogen levels, shpg and free testosterone. Maybe you just need to inject more often than three and a half days a week, without increasing your weekly dose.

 

[bochinit]

100mg per week is a good place to start.

 

[50BMGdoesitforme]

Thanks for all the replies, gents.

I changed over to SubQ after reading Doc Crisler's book "Testosterone Replacement Therapy" - he devotes a whole chapter to SubQ and it seems to be working pretty well for me. Not that I'm adverse to doing whatever I need to do.

Happy to share my labs - here's a few things from just before starting TRT:

T: 232
E2: 24
DHEA: 264
SHBG: 25

2 months later on 100mg x2 IM, 500iu HCG SubQ x2:
T: 1100
E2: 58
Started 1/2 Anastrazole/wk

4 months later:
T:>1500
E2: 56
Started 1 Anastrazole/wk

1 month later dropped to 70mg x2 IM

1 month after that, blood work day before injection:
T: 797
E2: 22

1 month later: tried 60mgx2 SubQ, intending to try for 1 month, hated it, lasted 1 week
1 week later: tried 70mgx2 SubQ and daily 100iu HCG. Improved libido and sexual function some.

1 month after that (now):
T: 526
E2: 31 (not totally sure it was ultrasensitive, may be wrong test, but I'm not hugely worried about E2 especially with a lower T dose)


As you can see, I've not tested SHBG since I started or free testosterone ever. I've been using PrivateMDLabs' Female Hormone Panel because it's fairly expansive and it's only around $70. Is there a good value out there for a test that includes free test? Also SHBG?

Finally, I would be interested to see the difference in peak vs. trough - is it worth doing a separate total T test (only about $30) the day after injection? I will say that I've never felt better or worse on certain days in my injection cycle like some guys report - pretty much constant. Of course I had no symptoms of low T except ED - and in hindsight, I was tired all the time but didn't realize it - so I know I may react to everything differently than most.

Guys, I truly appreciate all the help - thank you very much!!!

 

[Vince]

You need to stay on the same protocol, for a minimum of six weeks. I usually like to do 12 weeks before labs. I don't know how long you waited to do labs after changing your protocol.

 

[50BMGdoesitforme]

I was giving it a month; six weeks seems reasonable, I'll do that from now on.

So what do you think - I'm at 526 total T right now, had my labs, and am ready to bump up my dosage - should I try six weeks of 75mg x2 or jump up to 80?

Thanks all!

 

[charile12]

so I dropped myself to 70mg x2 a month ago and saw improved sexual function. Still lots of room for improvement but getting better.

I would stay the course. Give it more time. I think you saw the 500 t reading and think you should inject more.

 

[50BMGdoesitforme]

I have tried to always keep in mind that the number really doesn't mean all that much - what matters is where my body needs to be. If I feel good at 700, great - if it needs to be 1100, fine; I really do just want to find my good range.

I really was unsatisfied with things before I got my labs - honestly I was quite relieved to see such a relatively low number, because if it was still high it would have thrown a royal wrench in my understanding!

 

[charile12]

I have tried to always keep in mind that the number really doesn't mean all that much - what matters is where my body needs to be. If I feel good at 700, great - if it needs to be 1100, fine; I really do just want to find my good range.

I really was unsatisfied with things before I got my labs - honestly I was quite relieved to see such a relatively low number, because if it was still high it would have thrown a royal wrench in my understanding!

To be clear you are injecting 140 total a week?

 

[50BMGdoesitforme]

Well I'm injecting 35ml twice per week of 200mg/ml, so that is 70mg TC x2 per week. Sorry, being a new guy I'm never quite sure when people say things like 100mg/week whether that means what I think it does or twice that...

But I guess mg and ml are different, so when anyone says 100mg total that only refers to the total T injected, not to the ml of the solution - still trying to wrap my head around it all!

 

[Stylo]

Switch to EOD shots and inject into the ventroglute. Takes time to find the ventro first 2 attempts but its easy sitting down. My reaction to it is much better than the dorsoglute. Subq works for some but without offending, its a cop out. No offense. TC is meant for IM but yes it can be done Subq. Try it. Itll make a beast out of you.

 

[Cataceous]

... Subq works for some but without offending, its a cop out. No offense. ...

None taken, but it's still one of the more ridiculous statements I've seen. It's a "cop out" to avoid continually poking holes in your muscles and risking scar tissue? This even though the hormonal outcome is the same.

 

[Cataceous]

... TC is meant for IM ...

No. The original protocols were developed with the thought of going to the doctor every two weeks to a month to get your large-volume shot. It's less practical to try stuffing one or more milliliters of oil under the skin. But in the current, more enlightened era we know that more frequent, smaller injections provide better results and may be done without a doctor's assistance.

 

[Stylo]

None taken, but it's still one of the more ridiculous statements I've seen. So the manly man must prove how tough he is by continually poking holes in his muscles and risking scar tissue, rather than be a sissy and enjoy the relative ease of subcutaneous injections with small-gauge needles. This even though the outcome is the same.

Take it easy...You take no offense yet you act defensively. Dont sweat it... no one is scarring their tissue with 29g or 30g easy touch needles, and as for protocols you’re taken it farther back. There have been several versions of TRT. Im referring to the last version of it. There. Im just adding to the conversation. So how are you feeling by the way? Good I hope, this quarantine thing can be a bit annoying after 3 weeks

 

[Cataceous]

... Dont sweat it... no one is scarring their tissue with 29g or 30g easy touch needles, and as for protocols you’re taken it farther back. There have been several versions of TRT. Im referring to the last version of it. ...

You got in there just as I was toning it down. I think the leaner guys are using 29g for shallow IM, not so sure about 30g. But a lot of guys are still using 27, 25 and even larger gauges, which are surely more invasive. I admit there are at least a couple guys out there who appear to have lower testosterone on SQ at the same doses, but without the controlled conditions of a research trial it's hard to guess what's really going on in these cases.

 

[50BMGdoesitforme]

Hey gents - yeah, I did IM to the delts with 27g for 9 months; wasn't terrible but I did frequently have issues with some of the TC leaking out immediately after injection, leaving me to wonder how much leaked out and whether I should try to replace. I was skeptical of SQ TC - after all, what could be better than getting it directly into muscle? But I bought Dr. Crisler's book for like 10 or 15 bucks off of Amazon and changed my mind. He was skeptical as well and apparently among TRT docs was a holdout - one of his buddies actually called him out over it during a medical conference! And, he wasn't just a doc, he was himself on TRT, which makes me even more inclined to listen.

Crisler does cite three medical studies that had excellent results from SQ; also, from his own experience, he found that a slightly smaller dose of TC taken SQ produced the same levels as IM. Also, the results seemed to indicate that the peaks and troughs of T levels weren't as extreme, likely since T dissipated more slowly through fat than muscle.

Anyway, you all likely know a lot more about this than I do, but so far I am a FAN of SQ!

 

[Vince]

I don't think there's anything wrong with Sub-Q injections. But for whatever reason I never really liked doing Sub-Q. I really like injecting in my shoulders and VG. When I get to my shoulders, I usually inject closer to the front. When I inject in the front of my shoulders, I get zero bruising and no leakage. My favorite spot is the VG, this morning is my HCG and testosterone injection day. I've been injecting HCG Sub-Q in my love handles. This morning though I injected my testosterone in my VG and then my HCG I just moved up an inch and injected.

 

[Vince]

Best testosterone injection site, no aspiration needed, avoids all nerves

So I ran across the term "Ventrogluteal IM injection site" and found an article describing it as what is currently the most medically recommended injection site. I tried it a few times now and have to agree. No blood gushing pinholes, no veins, no nerves, minimal pain. IN: The Ventrogluteal IM...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

This is my 10th month on TRT and have done ED SQ with 30-31G 6-8mm in the sides and upper glutes from day one. I feel great and have only tried IM in the shoulders twice and did not like the feel of the depot in the muscle. It actually was painful for a couple of days, especially while working out. I did not feel any advantage over SQ. I also do not see the reason to puncture the fascia on a daily basis, cant be good. With SQ ED, I have no leakage, pain, blood or scarring, only sometimes an itch and only on the sides but thats it.