Transition from Testopel to Androgel- Any feedback?

[john.davidson25]

Greetings Gents:

Anyone here who moved away from Testopel to Androgel? Or if you are taking Androgel, what is your general impression? I used androgel before and found that I never got my levels to go up sufficiently high enough but I didn't try other strengths. Please share your thoughts.

Also, is Nebido available in US and anyone using it?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

How many Testopel pellets did you have inserted and how frequent? What dose of Androgel were you prescribed and what type of Androgel (1 percent versus 1.62%)?

 

[john.davidson25]

How many Testopel pellets did you have inserted and how frequent? What dose of Androgel were you prescribed and what type of Androgel (1 percent versus 1.62%)?

I get about 7-10 every 3 months of testopel. I have not been prescribed Androgel but I am thinking I would get better way of stabilizing T leveles with Androgel thand with Testopel which has large long periods of high T at the beginning and very low T (crash) towards the end.

Wondering if anyone had experience using something different than Testopel. I am not big fan of needles.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Most people need about 14 to 16 Testopel for three months to get to total T over 700 ng/dl sustained through the 90 day period.

You will do much better if you switch to a cream like this one that your doctor can prescribe from Empower Pharmacy

New Atrevis Hydrogel Based Testosterone Cream from Empower: Surprising Results!

After a month of using the new hydrogel cream from Empower Pharmacy at 1 ml per day (4 clicks of 0.25 mg each) my testosterone increased dramatically higher than it was even on 200 mg per week of injectable testosterone cypionate. and this was after using the cream plus pregnenolone 100 mg...

www.excelmale.com

Testosterone in Atrevis hydrogel base = almost double test levels!

So I was using 200 mg/gm compounded cream from Empower, which is HRT base, for almost 3 years before I switched to Medquest Pharmacy to try the Atrevis Base. I have heard about increased absorption from Atrevis base, but damn! I was using 3 clicks twice daily of Empower’s HRT base and never got...

www.excelmale.com

 

[john.davidson25]

Most people need about 14 to 16 Testopel for three months to get to total T over 700 ng/dl sustained through the 90 day period.

You will do much better if you switch to a cream like this one that your doctor can prescribe from Empower Pharmacy

New Atrevis Hydrogel Based Testosterone Cream from Empower: Surprising Results!

After a month of using the new hydrogel cream from Empower Pharmacy at 1 ml per day (4 clicks of 0.25 mg each) my testosterone increased dramatically higher than it was even on 200 mg per week of injectable testosterone cypionate. and this was after using the cream plus pregnenolone 100 mg...

www.excelmale.com

Testosterone in Atrevis hydrogel base = almost double test levels!

So I was using 200 mg/gm compounded cream from Empower, which is HRT base, for almost 3 years before I switched to Medquest Pharmacy to try the Atrevis Base. I have heard about increased absorption from Atrevis base, but damn! I was using 3 clicks twice daily of Empower’s HRT base and never got...

www.excelmale.com

Thank you Nelson, you are a beacon of light and wealth of information!!! Historically I don't do well with skin absorption and needles mess me up. But that's because I was on the old regimen of 2 week shots with those giant needles. It seems as though the newer regimen is T shots more every 1 week using smaller needles? Is this the new protocol?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Historically I don't do well with skin absorption and needles mess me up.

Try that new cream formulation. I think you will be surprised.

 

[Systemlord]

Also, is Nebido available in US and anyone using it?

Have you considered twice daily Jatenzo?

 

[john.davidson25]

Have you considered twice daily Jatenzo

Sorry I would never ever ever ever ever do oral T - that thing is brand new, and no history of how it works long term. I'll go back to needles first.

 

[Systemlord]

Sorry I would never ever ever ever ever do oral T - that thing is brand new, and no history of how it works long term. I'll go back to needles first.

They have already been clinical trials and Jatenzo is FDA approved.

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Subscription and open access journals from SAGE Publishing, the world's leading independent academic publisher.

journals.sagepub.com

Effect of Oral Testosterone Undecanoate on LH and FSH Concentrations

Introduction Treatment of male hypogonadism with testosterone (T), most profoundly with long-acting injections and pellets, has been shown to inhibit the hypogonadal-pituitary-gonadal (HPG) axis[4]. T injections result in a reduction in both luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating...

www.excelmale.com

Conclusion: Oral TU caused reductions in gonadotropins in this cohort of hypogonadal men, but gonadotropin concentrations remained within normal limits in younger men. Although the impact of these findings on spermatogenesis and fertility needs additional evaluation, these results suggest that oral TU does not have as significant of a suppressive impact on the HPG axis as some other forms of T replacement

 

[john.davidson25]

They have already been clinical trials and Jatenzo is FDA approved.

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Subscription and open access journals from SAGE Publishing, the world's leading independent academic publisher.

journals.sagepub.com

Effect of Oral Testosterone Undecanoate on LH and FSH Concentrations

Introduction Treatment of male hypogonadism with testosterone (T), most profoundly with long-acting injections and pellets, has been shown to inhibit the hypogonadal-pituitary-gonadal (HPG) axis[4]. T injections result in a reduction in both luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating...

www.excelmale.com

Thank you but some of this is a bit above my head: From a layman's perspective, are you saying Jatenzo is a better T-Therapy mechanism because it maintains more consistent T-levels or is it because it supresses other things like LSH far less? What was the reason you chose this therapy over pellets, or injections?

I never went through normal puberty so I am not a person who is losing T just due to old age Thank you very much, sorry if I am coming across as too naive. Would love to hear your feedback.

 

[Systemlord]

Thank you but some of this is a bit above my head: From a layman's perspective, are you saying Jatenzo is a better T-Therapy mechanism because it maintains more consistent T-levels or is it because it supresses other things like LSH far less?

Both, topicals and Jatenzo are better at miming the natural T production and less suppression of LH and FSH.

I am currently the only forum member on Jatenzo, and with amazing results.

What was the reason you chose this therapy over pellets, or injections?

I was on gels, creams and injections, daily, EOD, twice weekly and had treatment failure on all of these formulations of TRT. It took my four and a half years to figure out I needed frequent dosing and also a very short half-life.

Pellets are absurd to me, the risk of infection, having someone cut me open and lack of control are major downsides in my opinion.

My Experience On Jatenzo (Oral TRT) Log

I wanted to start a thread detailing my personal experience with Jatenzo (oral TRT) which is remarkable in how quickly it has shown results when compared with injections. The first week on Jatenzo was very pleasant unlike my experience after dosing changes on injections, all with minimal swings...

www.excelmale.com

 

[john.davidson25]

I am currently the only forum member on Jatenzo, and with amazing results.

And I think this is the issue. A lot of mistrust out there. If it's so great, why are you the only one?

 

[Systemlord]

And I think this is the issue. A lot of mistrust out there. If it's so great, why are you the only one?

A lot doctors and patients are completely unaware that Jatenzo even exists. It's hard enough to find a knowledgeable TRT doctor that is up to date. My endo was aware of Jatenzo, but never mentioned it to me. I found out about it right here on Excelmale.

Further research and speaking with the makers of Jatenzo myself, they mentioned Kaiser as the reason why it's not marketed out here in California, Kaiser, the largest managed care organization in the United States is least likely to prescribe it as it markets itself as affordable healthcare.

Insurance companies don't cover s*** these days, so unless you have top rate insurance, or a medical exception, then Jatenzo is out of your reach.

There's nothing affordable about Jatenzo, it's expensive. Insurance companies already put up a fight against covering topicals, which is comparison is a bargin when compared to the cost of Jatenzo.

I had to get a medical exception to get it covered because it costs several thousands of dollars every 60 days.

Jatenzo has many advantages, one of them is reaching steady states in 7 days!

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Hey @Systemlord

Remind us please what your lab values are? I am considering oral T since it’s the only option I have not tried. I take pills twice per day anyway. Curious if I can reach at TT level of at least 800 ng/dl

 

[Systemlord]

Curious if I can reach at TT level of at least 800 ng/dl

I have lower end SHBG levels and I'm getting high Total T values, you'll have no problems! Now if you wanted to be at 800 ng/dL at 4 hours, you might need a larger dosage.

Maybe you end up feeling better on Jatenzo versus injections, and you'll get higher DHT levels!

Remind us please what your lab values are?

The recommended starting dosage is 237 mg twice daily. My levels peak at 981 at 2 hours even with lower end SHBG levels, 652 at 4 hours and 289 at 12 hours. I'm getting extremely consistent levels as seen in the link below.

The Jatenzo bypasses the liver on the first pass, which previous oral T did not and caused liver toxicity.

My ALT levels are 19 and have been on a steady decline ever since starting Jatenzo.

Jatenzo is ideal for someone having problems controlling hematocrit and hemoglobin on injections, since it affects these parameters to a lesser extent.

Normally men on Jatenzo are supposed to test at exactly 4 hours after the morning dosage.

 

[Fortunate]

As a data point for anyone interested, I was prescribed Jatenzo. Fortunately, I was able to get it for zero dollars. I have tried for a few days at a time. Most recently, I noticed feeling pretty good within 1 to 2 hours of the dose. However, I think it caused me some G.I. discomfort.

I actually am still interested in trying this longer-term. My only current concern is the dosing schedule. It goes from peak to trough within about 12 hours, which means you dose twice a day. On my most recent attempt, I felt the bottom pretty significantly and felt better once I took my second dose. However, when I go to bed at night, I feel more amped up than I should. It’s the evening dose that is troublesome to me. In fairness, I have not done a trial long enough to get a steady state (to anyone that knows me around here, that’s no surprise!).

Wonder if any of these oral options will come out with an extended release? If so, I would be very interested in trying that. I thought I read somewhere that Tlando had an extended release scheduled to come out, but haven’t seen anything about it.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Both, topicals and Jatenzo are better at miming the natural T production and less suppression of LH and FSH.

I am currently the only forum member on Jatenzo, and with amazing results.

I was on gels, creams and injections, daily, EOD, twice weekly and had treatment failure on all of these formulations of TRT. It took my four and a half years to figure out I needed frequent dosing and also a very short half-life.

Did you ever try daily testosterone propionate injections? Seems to fit your success criteria.

 

[Systemlord]

Did you ever try daily testosterone propionate injections?

I was about to do just that when I read about Jatenzo. I figure Jatenzo would take micro dosing to the next level and since very frequent dosing always showed great results, I figured Jatenzo would be better for me.

So I figure two peaks in a 24 hours period are better than one.

 

[Systemlord]

I felt the bottom pretty significantly and felt better once I took my second dose.

This doesn't sound much different than the adjustment period after making changes to one's protocol.

Maybe just tough it out and let things settle after 7 days.

 

[Fortunate]

This doesn't sound much different than the adjustment period after making changes to one's protocol.

Maybe just tough it out and let things settle after 7 days.

Actually, I think you are right. My bigger concern is how amped up I felt while laying in bed. If that persisted, it would be very problematic.

Did you notice that at first?