Trans scrotal testosterone cream application is a game changer

[TLR]

Thanks for replying. I think I'm slowly reaching the same conclusion about lower dosages.
I'm going to give 12mg/day subQ a try and see what happens.

I’ve never done daily, but from what I’ve read and my understanding of the PKs of the esters, don’t be surprised if ur levels come out higher than you think….but it sounds like a good place to start….

 

[Fortunate]

No doubt “dose” is relative to each individual….I hardly check FT anymore, but TT is usually in the 700-800 Range, E2 high 20s to low 30s….on injections if I go any higher than that it aggravates pre existing anxiety and results in PVCs and just a “wired but tired” feeling….the interesting thing was being on the cream where my levels were at 1200 I didn’t feel that way, but my E2 was at like 58 and I just had the erection issues. I don’t know for “sure” if it was the E2, but when I was on higher doses of injectables and my E2 climbed I had the same thing happen. I dropped AIs years ago after doing the yo-yo thing and crashing a couple of times (apparently all I have to do is lick anastrozole and it drops me 20 points)….

Crazy - I just thought of that same phrase the other day when I was thinking about how I felt: Wired but tired. In my case, I was on cream.

I am waiting for labs I got drawn the other. I'll post if there is anything meaningful in them. But, and this is a huge BUT, it appears that quest may have f'ed up my order. I see everything EXCEPT total T and free T. I see DHT and ultrasenstive E2 on the order, so that will be good to know. But, I'll be dumbfounded if they didn't actually run testosterone levels. It was so painful to keep using cream, time the labs appropriately, etc.

 

[TLR]

Is it possible that those levels (on cream) are just a tad bit high ? Leading to erection issues ?

It could be that….and like I admitted I didn’t give 50 mg (one click) long enough more than likely to let things settle….this probably sounds stupid to some, but of all the sides I have gotten before getting this halfway figured out (for me), erection issues is the one I won’t tolerate for long….Im 53 with a shiny wife ten years younger than me and I ride and die by the old adage of “never waste a hard on”!!! When it’s time, I stop whatever I’m doing and get busy! I may give it another go and force myself to be patient and see if I can get it fine tuned….

 

[TLR]

Crazy - I just thought of that same phrase the other day when I was thinking about how I felt: Wired but tired. In my case, I was on cream.

I am waiting for labs I got drawn the other. I'll post if there is anything meaningful in them. But, and this is a huge BUT, it appears that quest may have f'ed up my order. I see everything EXCEPT total T and free T. I see DHT and ultrasenstive E2 on the order, so that will be good to know. But, I'll be dumbfounded if they didn't actually run testosterone levels. It was so painful to keep using cream, time the labs appropriately, etc.

There’s no other way to describe it….you feel jacked up and overstimulated, but you feel like ur dragging ass at the same time….

 

[Charliebizz]

It could be that….and like I admitted I didn’t give 50 mg (one click) long enough more than likely to let things settle….this probably sounds stupid to some, but of all the sides I have gotten before getting this halfway figured out (for me), erection issues is the one I won’t tolerate for long….Im 53 with a shiny wife ten years younger than me and I ride and die by the old adage of “never waste a hard on”!!! When it’s time, I stop whatever I’m doing and get busy! I may give it another go and force myself to be patient and see if I can get it fine tuned….

Same exact reason i Couldn’t go back to injections. My erections and libido much better and I lose my mind if I lose that even for a day lol.

 

[Charliebizz]

Crazy - I just thought of that same phrase the other day when I was thinking about how I felt: Wired but tired. In my case, I was on cream.

I am waiting for labs I got drawn the other. I'll post if there is anything meaningful in them. But, and this is a huge BUT, it appears that quest may have f'ed up my order. I see everything EXCEPT total T and free T. I see DHT and ultrasenstive E2 on the order, so that will be good to know. But, I'll be dumbfounded if they didn't actually run testosterone levels. It was so painful to keep using cream, time the labs appropriately, etc.

It’s another mental block. The cream got annoying for me too but once I realized I just feel better on it, it’s no longer bothering me to deal with again. And seriously what’s the point of continuously checking your t levels. ? If you feel good on a protocol stop worrying about the labs. Every little feeling in your life isn’t testosterone related. Even erection quality and libido can dip with no changes in your t levels. the Only reason I even Still test it is because it’s part of Defy’s 6 month follow up.

 

[Charliebizz]

It could be that….and like I admitted I didn’t give 50 mg (one click) long enough more than likely to let things settle….this probably sounds stupid to some, but of all the sides I have gotten before getting this halfway figured out (for me), erection issues is the one I won’t tolerate for long….Im 53 with a shiny wife ten years younger than me and I ride and die by the old adage of “never waste a hard on”!!! When it’s time, I stop whatever I’m doing and get busy! I may give it another go and force myself to be patient and see if I can get it fine tuned….

I really don’t see how the cream would affect your erections negatively if your levels are the same as on injections. unless Maybe your e2 is lower in the cells on cream vs injections via the higher dht levels. But that’s all speculation.

I know for me cream had a positive effect on my erections right away. Even with injectables still in my system.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

But, and this is a huge BUT, it appears that quest may have f'ed up my order. I see everything EXCEPT total T and free T. I see DHT and ultrasenstive E2 on the order, so that will be good to know. But, I'll be dumbfounded if they didn't actually run testosterone levels.

Quest takes 7 business days to run the total and free T which is super frustrating. They'll always be the last results you get.

 

[Fortunate]

It’s another mental block. The cream got annoying for me too but once I realized I just feel better on it, it’s no longer bothering me to deal with again. And seriously what’s the point of continuously checking your t levels. ? If you feel good on a protocol stop worrying about the labs. Every little feeling in your life isn’t testosterone related. Even erection quality and libido can dip with no changes in your t levels. the Only reason I even Still test it is because it’s part of Defy’s 6 month follow up.

Not mental for me, brother. Trust me.

I got labs for the opposite reason - not because I felt good, but because I felt terrible.

 

[Fortunate]

Quest takes 7 business days to run the total and free T which is super frustrating. They'll always be the last results you get.

I found a way to get in touch with them this morning and made sure they added it. You are correct. Fortunately, I didn't wait too much longer.

Edit: it was not included in the ordered labs. Thankfully, they were able to add it.

 

[Wolverine]

I really don’t see how the cream would affect your erections negatively if your levels are the same as on injections. unless Maybe your e2 is lower in the cells on cream vs injections via the higher dht levels. But that’s all speculation.

I know for me cream had a positive effect on my erections right away. Even with injectables still in my system.

I agree with your speculation. I felt terrible on cream. TT and FT levels were great, along with E. But my DHT, even on one click (50mg) was through the roof. Had dry flaky skin, poor EQ, achey joints, as if I had low E. Back on the injections.

 

[Charliebizz]

Quest takes 7 business days to run the total and free T which is super frustrating. They'll always be the last results you get.

Try getting pregnenolone tested. Took 14 days to come back

Not mental for me, brother. Trust me.

I got labs for the opposite reason - not because I felt good, but because I felt terrible.

i didn’t mean mental in how you feel. Like if you feel good on cream, you get over the hassle of applying it.

 

[Charliebizz]

I agree with your speculation. I felt terrible on cream. TT and FT levels were great, along with E. But my DHT, even on one click (50mg) was through the roof. Had dry flaky skin, poor EQ, achey joints, as if I had low E. Back on the injections.

My dht is through the roof and I feel way better on cream !!

 

[RobRoy]

I agree with your speculation. I felt terrible on cream. TT and FT levels were great, along with E. But my DHT, even on one click (50mg) was through the roof. Had dry flaky skin, poor EQ, achey joints, as if I had low E. Back on the injections.

Had absolutely nothing to do with the DHT you measured. Had nothing to do with DHT at all. The DHT you measured had no effect at the cellular level. It was not the cause of your symptoms but you will blame it...

 

[FunkOdyssey]

The DHT you measured had no effect at the cellular level.

The idea that serum DHT levels are meaningless and only DHT locally generated in tissues from T matters is contradicted by studies that administer pure DHT to men and observe all kinds of hormonal effects consistent with what you would expect DHT to do.

The effects of transdermal dihydrotestosterone in the aging male: a prospective, randomized, double blind study - PubMed

The objective of the study was to investigate the effects of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) gel on general well-being, sexual function, and the prostate in aging men. A total of 120 men participated in this randomized, placebo-controlled study (60 DHT and 60 placebo). All subjects had nocturnal...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized clinical trial of transdermal dihydrotestosterone gel on muscular strength, mobility, and quality of life in older men with partial androgen deficiency - PubMed

The efficacy and safety of androgen supplementation in older men remains controversial. Despite biochemical evidence of partial androgen deficiency in older men, controlled studies using T demonstrate equivocal benefits. Furthermore, the importance of aromatization and 5alpha reduction in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Long-term effects of dihydrotestosterone treatment on prostate growth in healthy, middle-aged men without prostate disease: a randomized, placebo-controlled trial - PubMed

BHR Pharma.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Sci-Hub | Dihydrotestosterone: Hormone or Autocrine–Paracrine Signal? | 10.7326/0003-4819-153-10-201011160-00013

Furthermore, the ability of the 5-reductase system to produce high tissue levels of DHT in organs, such as the prostate, indicates that even high levels of DHT in the blood remain much lower than the levels reached in the prostate and thus have little influence on prostate growth. In contrast, high levels of DHT in the blood will act as a hormone and thus produce real effects in tissues with less dominant testosterone to DHT-amplifying systems, such as muscle, fat, and bone marrow.

"..high levels of DHT in the blood will act as a hormone.."

 

[Gman86]

My dht is through the roof and I feel way better on cream !!

do u have hair or shave ur head bald? Jc if the high DHT is affecting ur hair at all

 

[Jerajera]

do u have hair or shave ur head bald? Jc if the high DHT is affecting ur hair at all

I definitely noticed faster shedding on the cream. With scrotal application, my DHT went up to 500ng/dL (range 12-65) and 360ng/dL on 2 clicks AM/PM nd 1 click AM/PM respectively.
My hair started falling out way faster than on injections. I don't really care personally since my #1 priority is optimizing mood and cognition but it's definitely something that happened.

 

[Gman86]

I definitely noticed faster shedding on the cream. With scrotal application, my DHT went up to 500ng/dL (range 12-65) and 360ng/dL on 2 clicks AM/PM nd 1 click AM/PM respectively.
My hair started falling out way faster than on injections. I don't really care personally since my #1 priority is optimizing mood and cognition but it's definitely something that happened.

Thanks for the anecdote

 

[Charliebizz]

And I’ve noticed no difference in hair shedding at all with dht in the 250s.

 

[TLR]

Had absolutely nothing to do with the DHT you measured. Had nothing to do with DHT at all. The DHT you measured had no effect at the cellular level. It was not the cause of your symptoms but you will blame it...

Since you are on here….you mentioned in another post that you experienced erectile issues initially with the cream and it abated with time….how long does it take in your experience?? As I stated, I felt better overall on the cream at levels I don’t usually tolerate on injections, however both times I have tried the cream it negatively affected erections….