Testosterone propionate for TRT

[sebastian_r]

This guy seems to favor the longer esters injected EOD. Not saying his word is the end all be all, but just good to have more opinions before we all go out and switch our Rx to Prop.

One of the nurses at the clinic I use said something a while back about trends that they see spill over from the forums. We were talking about something else, but I remember her saying something about prop to prove her point. She said something like “Yeah a while back there was a bunch of talk on the forums about prop and a bunch of guys wanted to switch over to prop...most of them switched back”

Full disclosure: this thread still has me thinking of trying it. The ‘ol “Do what I say, not what I do” in full effect

If I had no side effects I would almost definetly cruise relaxed on a long ester, propably even undecanoate. Doing a shot every 2-3 weeks an be good to go. Even E3D on Enanthate I would be very happy with. It's just not happening for me.

I think prop is a great solution for people who have problems with long esters and just cannot make it work. If no problems with long ester, pinning prop everyday is not necessary.

 

[Gman86]

Prop in short we couldn't figure out exactly what my problem was with it besides being more expensive and having to shoot more oil for my dose as the vial strength was only 50mg/mL (not 200mg/mL). We theorized an IGF-1 spike because of the carpal tunnel like symptoms that were identical to when I was messing with Secretagogues like GHRP 2/6 and 1295, reason I dropped use of those, too.

I was waking at night with basically my elbow to hand numb, tingly and almost a painful cramping sensation, couldn't sleep, it was very problematic and I went right back to Cyp within a couple of weeks.

As soon as I went back on Cyp within a day or two that problem totally stopped so it was absolutely something about the Prop my body didn't like. Prop was from Hallandale Pharm.

You don’t think it had anything to do with the extremely high dose of prop you were on? Aren’t you on a much lower dose of Testosterone Cypionate now?

 

[Jeromefrance]

Tested them all during the last 4-5 years.
- Suspension
- Propionate
- Phenylpropionate
- Enanthate
- Cypionate
- Undecanoate
- Sustanon

Propionate is the winner for me, not even close. Drive, aggression, focus, energy. Suspension is nice as well, but hits too hard / fast for my liking.

All the other Esters come with different side effects. Water retention with some, blood pressure with others, acne with others, lethargy, dick problems.....

Some esters feel like a different drug all together. I guess the different levels of estradiol and DHT conversion make this big of a difference for me. The fluctuation in t-levels seem to be highly beneficial for me as well. After a prop injection it's like waking up, a boost of energy. Getting this everyday. Never getting this with other esters.

By far the worst side effects I get with cypionate. I would rather never take testo again before using cypionate. I guess that's why you see so many guys struggle with TRT in the US. Almost as if there is a reason they prescribe only cypionate.....

The only downside of prop is that it's very hard to get hands on pharmagrade prop and the quality of UGL prop swings widely. And you have to pin ED.

What dosage do you use daily please ?

 

[BigBamBoo]

If/when I re-start TRT, I think I will try Test P. I wondered if some of my neg symptoms I experienced had to do with Test C.

Even though I have high SHBG, I did WAY better on more frequent injections.

 

[Gman86]

If/when I re-start TRT, I think I will try Test P. I wondered if some of my neg symptoms I experienced had to do with Test C.

Even though I have high SHBG, I did WAY better on more frequent injections.

Keep us posted. I’ll hopefully be starting test prop in about 5 weeks, and my SHBG is usually on the higher side. I’ll report my results after the change as well, good or bad.

 

[Jeromefrance]

Keep us posted. I’ll hopefully be starting test prop in about 5 weeks, and my SHBG is usually on the higher side. I’ll report my results after the change as well, good or bad.

Exactly the same. Everything is too hard to adjust and my overall feeling is not extra. Like flat. I even think that with daily cypionate if you look for high levels, the " always high " is increasing aromatisation too. With prop it looks like a wave day by day. Maybe i am wrong but i must give it a try too. Will be doing 17mg/ day.

 

[sebastian_r]

What dosage do you use daily please ?

I found 15mg/day IM working well for me for long time (several years).

Last year I worked hard to become very lean and now for whatever reason I need about 20mg/day to get the same great feeling.

Could be that I have too little E2 conversion on 15mg after losing the weight (thats at least my theory based on symptoms).

 

[fifty]

If/when I re-start TRT, I think I will try Test P. I wondered if some of my neg symptoms I experienced had to do with Test C.

Even though I have high SHBG, I did WAY better on more frequent injections.

I might try it too. I think I’m basically like you but a few steps behind.

 

[R2D2]

Thanks for posting your experience; I have followed a similar path since December 2018 - not feeling good on Enanthate. Switched to Propionate - much better. However, I am converting a lot to E.

I'm currently injecting 10.5 - 11mg per day. I feel good-ish on this protocol (any less and I'm lethargic with no zest). Interestingly - my T levels are quite high at Peak 1200+ ng/dl and Estradiol is also high 55+ (these are results from 11mg/day - no AI)

However - I feel MUCH better on this than even 10.5mg/day - a 0.5mg drop. It's bizarre! Because my T levels are still over 900 and E is less yet I experience many more E symptoms - sweating, less confident borderline wimp etc. My SHBG is on the low side though - 22

Questions - what are your T and E results when injecting 15mg/day? How high is your SHBG? Have you tried to stop an AI; did you measure results?

NB: I'm injecting SubQ. You mentioned that SubQ wasn't working for you. Would you mind describing the experience you had with SubQ vs IM? In terms of IM, what size needles are you using i.e. is it a shallow IM?

Cheers

 

[Gman86]

Thanks for posting your experience; I have followed a similar path since December 2018 - not feeling good on Enanthate. Switched to Propionate - much better. However, I am converting a lot to E.

I'm currently injecting 10.5 - 11mg per day. I feel good-ish on this protocol (any less and I'm lethargic with no zest). Interestingly - my T levels are quite high at Peak 1200+ ng/dl and Estradiol is also high 55+ (these are results from 11mg/day - no AI)

However - I feel MUCH better on this than even 10.5mg/day - a 0.5mg drop. It's bizarre! Because my T levels are still over 900 and E is less yet I experience many more E symptoms - sweating, less confident borderline wimp etc. My SHBG is on the low side though - 22

Questions - what are your T and E results when injecting 15mg/day? How high is your SHBG? Have you tried to stop an AI; did you measure results?

NB: I'm injecting SubQ. You mentioned that SubQ wasn't working for you. Would you mind describing the experience you had with SubQ vs IM? In terms of IM, what size needles are you using i.e. is it a shallow IM?

Cheers

Where is your free T currently? With the range.

 

[themud]

sebastian,

Same here. I think when I got real lean and do daily T, my E is low. Maybe will try 20/day. My doc likes my TT low though and my E high range, so when I draw I have to come down a week or two before I go in.

Prop killed everything for me. PIP, knots the size of golf ball with only 30mg injected. Headaches, low libido.

 

[Gman86]

sebastian,

Same here. I think when I got real lean and do daily T, my E is low. Maybe will try 20/day. My doc likes my TT low though and my E high range, so when I draw I have to come down a week or two before I go in.

Prop killed everything for me. PIP, knots the size of golf ball with only 30mg injected. Headaches, low libido.

Propionate caused all those things for you?

 

[themud]

Yes

 

[antelopers]

Just thought I'd chime in with my experience here. I attempted to use daily propionate, and found that it significantly raised my E2, even with a much lower dose than I was using of cypionate. I also felt good for about 8 hours, and then kind of "blah" until my next shot. I have normal SHBG levels. Everyone is different, I'm sure it works great for some guys, but it's not for me.

 

[Gman86]

Just thought I'd chime in with my experience here. I attempted to use daily propionate, and found that it significantly raised my E2, even with a much lower dose than I was using of cypionate. I also felt good for about 8 hours, and then kind of "blah" until my next shot. I have normal SHBG levels. Everyone is different, I'm sure it works great for some guys, but it's not for me.

Wow, it RAISED your E2? That is very surprising. I wonder if anyone else has had this happen while using propionate.

 

[antelopers]

Wow, it RAISED your E2? That is very surprising. I wonder if anyone else has had this happen while using propionate.

It does seem odd especially since I am normally not a heavy aromatizer. I suspect that with my body, bigger spikes lead to more e2, and more stable levels allow my e2 to balance itself, even with a higher dose. I probably could have dialed it in over time, but I didn't want to continue with it.

 

[jmyers]

I switched To prop weeks ago. Went from 25mg cyp to 25 mg prop every morning.... for the first two days I felt better but as soon as the cyp got out of my system I did not like the way I felt. I am doing my shots in the morning and I find that I feel better at night when the prop is peakomg and then it’s extremely hard to wake up and I don’t feel good again until after my next shot .. i’ve been on vacation so I only have my prop with me get back home tonight and I will switch back. I don’t think my body responds well to the fast acting Ester. Really the tiredness I have waking up in the morning is weird.... around five or 6 PM I start feeling good again. Even tried switching the shots at night for a few days but noticed a drained feeling in the evenings before my next shot.

 

[Jucaro]

I switched To prop weeks ago. Went from 25mg cyp to 25 mg prop every morning.... for the first two days I felt better but as soon as the cyp got out of my system I did not like the way I felt. I am doing my shots in the morning and I find that I feel better at night when the prop is peakomg and then it’s extremely hard to wake up and I don’t feel good again until after my next shot .. i’ve been on vacation so I only have my prop with me get back home tonight and I will switch back. I don’t think my body responds well to the fast acting Ester. Really the tiredness I have waking up in the morning is weird.... around five or 6 PM I start feeling good again. Even tried switching the shots at night for a few days but noticed a drained feeling in the evenings before my next shot.

For me 25 mg ED would be too much, and there is no way a could feel good with too much testosterone... with much lower dose I feel great in every way. If I were you I would try 15 mg ED.

 

[jmyers]

I never felt good on anything less than 25 Mg cyp. I started at 20mg prop and went up to 25mg after I noticed I wasn’t feeling well in the morning until the shot see if that would make a difference but it has not. I feel best at 1500 tt and 35-40 free. A bit on the high side but works for me. I really liked the idea of the prop but just not for me.. Plus the suspension has so much more oil you just end up injecting so much more stuff into you.

 

[Gman86]

Very interesting how different we all are