See, I just switched to prop after being on cyp for 2+ years with no real effect it was an option given by Defy after lab results being meh on 40~mg test cyp eod and a SHBG of 12. This is not the kind of information I was expecting to see about switching to prop.
Testosterone propionate for TRT
- Thread starter madhacker
- Start date
The problem is that if SHBG doesn't affect the apparent ester half-life then serum testosterone in response to an injection should look the same for any SHBG, except for a multiplicative factor. So in theory the low-SHBG guy could simply adjust the dose to match serum testosterone of the high-SHBG guy. The need to match free testosterone would explain the benefits of smaller doses for low-SHBG guys. But it doesn't explain why more frequent injections are helpful.
Vince Carter
Banned
I concur I something I see in myself that I specifically addressed at my last consult. It seems that I get the same rise in T and E with my 16mg injection, but by about 12hrs my T is dropping but my E remains high. I think that Dr Crisler had made some remarks about pissing out the T and not experiencing the same rate of clearance for Estrogen. So I get overly tired maybe, avoid sex in the afternoon and evening hours, and so on.
I started using my AI just before bedtime as opposed to AM. By the time my E does start dropping it's overnight in bed leading to disturbed sleep coupled with being overly warm, or sweaty, as the E drops and I shed a little water weight (my guess).
This seems to happen with Cyp, Prop I couldn't tolerate it enough to see how it would go but my Prop ~2 weeks or whatever was really bad and I had to abandon it.
So far with about 3 weeks of Enanthate seems to be the same as Cyp, for me.
Jason Sypolt
Administrator
Not sure, just try to be objective about any changes and give it at least a month. I kept notes on every protocol change so that I would have something to refer back to without getting in the moment about everything.
Empower also makes a blend of esters, but I have never tried it. I'm supplementing injections with cream now and it is working very well for me.
Jason Sypolt
Administrator
I am also using Enanthate now, but for me it is to see if it helps in clearing up the persistent skin / "acne" problems. As far as how I feel, I don't think there is any difference between Cypionate and Enanthate.
I had tried Prop for a good 3 month run using about 120mg/wk SubQ ED and I loved it except for the PIP... no matter where I injected I always had a tolerable but annoying painful/tender injection area, sometimes a small lump that went away in about a day or two... If not for the annoying PIP I would use Prop no question.. I did feel stronger and had more energy and it made sense using a faster acting ester since Im injecting ED anyway.. because the PIP became so annoying I started cutting my prop with Cyp (50/50) and it seemed to work pretty well at reducing PIP and I seemed to still retain some of the benefits of using straight prop... Unfortunately I can't get a 50/50 prop/cyp blend so I am using a 50prop/200cyp (250mg total) blend from my docs compounding pharmacy. Im thinking about seeing if my doc can get me a seperate prop script along with my cyp script and then I will just cut myself...
sebastian_r
Member
You could as well try another brand. I had brands that completely crippled me for days after an injection, and others with zero PIP.
I’ve heard the same. I’m about to start using Empower’s prop. I’ve heard that it is painless. I’m praying that’s true.
What brand of prop was this? And were you using HCG or an ai, or just prop? And what is your SHBG? Seems like prop usually works better for guys with mid to high SHBG, than low, so just curious where yours was since it worked so well for you.
What’s your prop dose gonna be, and are you going to be injecting daily? And what’s your SHBG?
Empower is great stuff. zero PIP for me.
Starting at 11MG and current shbg is 12.2
I just started propionate 3 days ago after trying to get Cypionate, enanthate and topicals to work for me for well over nine years. Man what a difference! It ramps up until 4-5pm and starts to subside and just feels more natural. I have very high shbg in the 65-75 range typically. I’m only using 10mg per day to start with nothing else. I realize it contains the same molecule as all the rest, but for me this is a totally different animal. Today is 14 days without any Cypionate so perhaps I might have to bump the dose up ever so slightly after a few weeks. I’d give it a 9.5 out of 10 for sure.
Vince Carter
Banned
When I had my short Prop trial they had me on 25mg/Day and the vial strength I could get from Hallandale was only 50mg/mL so I had to shoot .5ml each day which was just a small part but of the large picture why I didn't like it.
You’re kind of a rare case Vince. Your SHBG is so low that you excrete it extremely quick. I think most guys with a very low SHBG would have issues with a short esther like prop. I would imagine they would do better on enanthate (4 day half life), or cyp (7-8 day half life), injected ED or EOD. Someone with an extremely low SHBG, injecting ED or EOD would probably have peaks and troughs with enanthate, that would be similar to a high SHBG on prop, while also injecting ED or EOD. This is my theory anyways.
I’m really starting to think high SHBG guys would do better on very short esthers, and low SHBG guys would do better on medium to long esthers. I think there really might be some solid benefits to having fluctuating levels of testosterone throughout a 24-48 hour period. Again, only a hypothesis based off of anectodal experiences of guys on here and many podcasts I’ve listened to on the subject. And of course all the talk about testosterone creams on the round table.
Something else that makes me believe that there might be benefits to fluctuating levels of testosterone, is a study where they were curing prostate cancer with one high dose of testosterone per month. They would then repeat this big shot per month multiple months in a row, until optimal results were achieved. Something along those lines at least. I didn’t read the whole article. Just heard about it on the superhumanradio podcast, and then looked it up so I could post it here.
Man 'cured' of prostate cancer after doctors shock tumour to death with testosterone
This member reported feeling much better when he went from applying testosterone cream 2x/ day, to once per day. I would imagine this is from his levels of testosterone fluctuating more.
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This is very encouraging to hear, as I’m a high SHBG guy as well. I’m doing EOD prop injections, but might switch to ED if I have to.
And ya the cyp will take about 40 days total to get out of your system. So in another 26 days you will just be running off of prop. So you might have to bump up the dose just a tad, like u said.
And it took you 9 years to find something that works? You are one dedicated man! Lol. Very glad that you found something that finally works for you. Hopefully you continue to see great results!
sh1973,
One of my hesitations with Prop, as Vince Carter mentioned, would be the large volume required to be injected daily.
What strength is your Prop, and/or how much (volume) do you inject for 10mg?
Also, I've followed your posts for a while and glad to hear you found something that is working better for you. Please keep us updated with how things progress.
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