Testosterone plus Nandrolone = Estrogen overload?

[Gman86]

I personally will never try nandrolone. Too many anecdotes from people I know who have suffered either or both 1. Libido loss 2. "Numb penis" yet have libido (desire).

To me, deca dick seems to be neurological, affecting the dopamine reward circuitry. The elevated prolactin is just a side effect of the lowered dopamine in a depressed brain. Long after nandrolone containing cycles are done, protactin normalised, all hormones in range, the ED / and or loss of libido persists. All the estrogen/prolactin/DHN theories then can get thrown out the window. Sure caber / DHT (masteron) may temporarily help by raising dopamine, but anything that raises dopamine will for a while....hell, cocaine will probably help too.

Nandrolone is a toxic neuro steroid and theres no way in hell im touching it. Whats poison in moderate amounts is poison in small amounts too. As far as the neuro effects go.

Nandrolone increasing prolactin is incorrect. Nandrolone converts extremely little into E2 and prolactin. It’s an old old myth that nandrolone shoots up prolactin levels. However, as far as I know it does sensitive E2 and prolactin receptors, so whatever E2 and prolactin u have in ur system can become more “potent”. That’s why caution is required when concurrently using a compound that has a high conversion rate to both E2 and prolactin, like testosterone, for example

 

[bixt]

Nandrolone increasing prolactin is incorrect. Nandrolone converts extremely little into E2 and prolactin. It’s an old old myth that nandrolone shoots up prolactin levels. However, as far as I know it does sensitive E2 and prolactin receptors, so whatever E2 and prolactin u have in ur system can become more “potent”. That’s why caution is required when concurrently using a compound that has a high conversion rate to both E2 and prolactin, like testosterone, for example

19-Nors cause an increase in prolactin. They do not convert to prolactin. This is a well known fact in BB circles and why caber is used in cycles containing 19-Nor compounds. This has been found from the blood results of thousands on bodybuilders.

Perhaps this applies to bodybuilding doses and may not apply to say 50mg/week.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Using ND for bodybuilding is wildly different than in a therapeutic setting. Not the least of which is that ND is often used with large amounts of other substances and substances not used therapeutically at all. Even used alone, it’s still wildly different. That’s like a comparison between benefits of taking an aspirin for a headache vs taking half of the bottle.

And there is no way in hell that some guy on YT has any way of measuring, let alone knowing how sensitive or not any receptors are along with anything else about their state. Just because something sounds reasonable, that means nothing except you don’t shake your head in disbelief right away. I just can’t understand the logic behind trusting one word of any of that when it comes to health and many other things. So a bodybuilder guy trying to cross apply what is on his mind to TRT self-posts on YT because it’s the only platform he has to say what he wants. That should be strikes one and two. This person was banned from the EM ******** group and others long ago for giving people who didn’t know any better crazy “advice”. These guys usually then make their own private groups so they can control criticism and transparency.

 

[Gman86]

19-Nors cause an increase in prolactin. They do not convert to prolactin. This is a well known fact in BB circles and why caber is used in cycles containing 19-Nor compounds. This has been found from the blood results of thousands on bodybuilders.

Perhaps this applies to bodybuilding doses and may not apply to say 50mg/week.

Oh interesting, never thought of the difference, but now I obv see what u mean. Ya maybe it does. I haven’t really seen that in blood work with guys on HRT, IIRC, but maybe it’s more prevalent with higher “blasting” dosages. I always thought that nandrolone just sensitized the prolactin receptor, and if a person was running another compound that converted heavily into prolactin, that prolactin would become more potent, and that’s why something like caber would be effective.

So when u say 19-nors increase prolactin, does the person have to be using another compound that converts into prolactin, and nandrolone will just increase that conversion? How would a 19-nor increase prolactin if u were running it on its own, if it doesn’t really convert into prolactin?

 

[Fortunate]

Your antidote about poison is inaccurate. The dose makes the poison a vast majority of the time. Hell, we even have arsenic in our bodies.

I agree with this point.

 

[bixt]

So when u say 19-nors increase prolactin, does the person have to be using another compound that converts into prolactin, and nandrolone will just increase that conversion? How would a 19-nor increase prolactin if u were running it on its own, if it doesn’t really convert into prolactin

Im unaware of any compound that "converts" to prolactin. Causing an increase is not the same as converting.

That nandrolone "sensitises" the prolactin receptor is absolute hogwash as Jason pointed out.

Taeian is the only one peddling this info, and for your own good you should run far far away. He is not "the answer". All he cares for is fame and "likes".

 

[Gman86]

Im unaware of any compound that "converts" to prolactin. Causing an increase is not the same as converting.

That nandrolone "sensitises" the prolactin receptor is absolute hogwash as Jason pointed out.

Taeian is the only one peddling this info, and for your own good you should run far far away. He is not "the answer". All he cares for is fame and "likes".

What do u mean that ur unaware of any compound that converts into prolactin. Obv test converts into prolactin. Am I wrong?

What does causing an increase in prolactin mean? How does that work within the body? Ur saying that test causes a body part to produce prolactin, and prolactin isn’t a metabolite that’s created from testosterone itself?

 

[Gman86]

Using ND for bodybuilding is wildly different than in a therapeutic setting. Not the least of which is that ND is often used with large amounts of other substances and substances not used therapeutically at all. Even used alone, it’s still wildly different. That’s like a comparison between benefits of taking an aspirin for a headache vs taking half of the bottle.

And there is no way in hell that some guy on YT has any way of measuring, let alone knowing how sensitive or not any receptors are along with anything else about their state. Just because something sounds reasonable, that means nothing except you don’t shake your head in disbelief right away. I just can’t understand the logic behind trusting one word of any of that when it comes to health and many other things. So a bodybuilder guy trying to cross apply what is on his mind to TRT self-posts on YT because it’s the only platform he has to say what he wants. That should be strikes one and two. This person was banned from the EM ******** group and others long ago for giving people who didn’t know any better crazy “advice”. These guys usually then make their own private groups so they can control criticism and transparency.

He obv isn’t measuring receptor sensitivity himself. He’s going off of studies that reported this. I’m not saying him or the studies are 100% correct. I personally believe most studies are flawed, and consequently the results/ conclusions of most studies end up being null and void most of the time, again imo. Clearly guys on deca and test have benefited from taking caber, yet I’ve never seen deca raise prolactin on a blood test. So the whole deca sensitizing prolactin receptors seemed to make sense. If deca doesn’t convert to prolactin realty at all, why do guys seems to benefit from taking caber when running both test and deca together?

Also, I believe u use nandrolone, correct? Are u personally worried about any neurotoxicity or dopamine issues using it long term? I’m also using nandrolone in my protocol, so I’m curious about ur thoughts on the subject

 

[bixt]

What do u mean that ur unaware of any compound that converts into prolactin. Obv test converts into prolactin. Am I wrong?

This is basic stuff, test doesn't convert to prolactin.

Ur saying that test causes a body part to produce prolactin, and prolactin isn’t a metabolite that’s created from testosterone itself?

Prolactin is secreted by the pituatary gland.

 

[bixt]

He obv isn’t measuring receptor sensitivity himself. He’s going off of studies that reported this. I’m not saying him or the studies are 100% correct. I personally believe most studies are flawed, and consequently the results/ conclusions of most studies end up being null and void most of the time, again imo. Clearly guys on deca and test have benefited from taking caber, yet I’ve never seen deca raise prolactin on a blood test. So the whole deca sensitizing prolactin receptors seemed to make sense. If deca doesn’t convert to prolactin realty at all, why do guys seems to benefit from taking caber when running both test and deca together?

Also, I believe u use nandrolone, correct? Are u personally worried about any neurotoxicity or dopamine issues using it long term? I’m also using nandrolone in my protocol, so I’m curious about ur thoughts on the subject

On the contrary, deca DOES cause an increase in prolactin (which is totally different from CONVERTING to prolactin, a concept you appear to have trouble grasping). Suggest you use the search function on a couple BB forums and you will find 1000s of results showing otherwise. Sure, these may be large doses, but the point needs to be made.

Buddy, you are in way over your head trying to argue a really complex hypothesis, but yet have not grasped the basics.

Also, I believe u use nandrolone, correct?

I did mention a few posts ago that I will never touch Nandrolone.

 

[Gman86]

@bixt wow I can’t believe after all this time I thought test converted into prolactin. Literally learn something new everyday lol. Thanks for that clarification. So basically test converts into estrogen, and then that estrogen tells the pituitary gland to release prolactin? Is that correct?

And I was replying to Jason when I asked about him using nandrolone, not u. Sorry for the confusion

 

[Gman86]

@bixt I asked guys in a few FB groups about deca raising prolactin in labs and everyone said the same thing, that there’s no mechanism that they can think of that would cause this, and it’s not what they’ve personally seen in people’s labs running deca/ nandrolone.

Nandrolone converts extremely little into estrogen. So if estrogen is what causes the pituitary to release prolactin, by what mechanism is nandrolone supposedly able to increase prolactin levels?

 

[bixt]

@bixt I asked guys in a few FB groups about deca raising prolactin in labs and everyone said the same thing, that there’s no mechanism that they can think of that would cause this, and it’s not what they’ve personally seen in people’s labs running deca/ nandrolone.

Nandrolone converts extremely little into estrogen. So if estrogen is what causes the pituitary to release prolactin, by what mechanism is nandrolone supposedly able to increase prolactin levels?

Its absurd that in one clean swing of the sword, some secret FB groups have negated decades of evidence (with accompanying labs) of deca/tren raising prolactin in BBs. We are TRT focussed, but I mention BBers as your source of info is BB focussed. (To those that are unaware this Taeian FB group promotes deca only cycles of 1.5 GRAMS and not less, in order for sufficent androgenic stimation from weak DHN. They say less deca = less DHN, not enough androgenic stimulation and therefore you will get deca dick. So large amounts solo are mandatory. Its ridiculous and not even remotely applicable to our goals on this forum). Im really not going to argue anymore regarding deca raising prl.

Why do you need to know the exact mechanism in order to believe the emperical data? There are quite a few hypothesis floating around, easily searchable, on why deca may raise prl.

I myself mentioned with regards to deca dick / neuro side effects of deca, no one is even sure of the mechanism. Is it DHN? Is prl? Is it deca itself as a neuro steroid? Is is something else?
Heres another one: 19-nors are said by some to be "progestins" i.e. can act on the receptors as such.

I didnt single out prolactin as the cause of why (perhaps misguidedly) I believe its neurotoxic.

Why are you then fixated on prolactin only? I am led to think its because guru Taeian has singled it out.

Seriously, if you love your dick you must run far far away from this guy. Deca dick may be a hit or miss in a regular (T containing) cycle or therapeutically, but if you follow this chap you are making it a 100% certainty.

 

[Gman86]

Its absurd that in one clean swing of the sword, some secret FB groups have negated decades of evidence (with accompanying labs) of deca/tren raising prolactin in BBs. We are TRT focussed, but I mention BBers as your source of info is BB focussed. (To those that are unaware this Taeian FB group promotes deca only cycles of 1.5 GRAMS and not less, in order for sufficent androgenic stimation from weak DHN. They say less deca = less DHN, not enough androgenic stimulation and therefore you will get deca dick. So large amounts solo are mandatory. Its ridiculous and not even remotely applicable to our goals on this forum). Im really not going to argue anymore regarding deca raising prl.

Why do you need to know the exact mechanism in order to believe the emperical data? There are quite a few hypothesis floating around, easily searchable, on why deca may raise prl.

I myself mentioned with regards to deca dick / neuro side effects of deca, no one is even sure of the mechanism. Is it DHN? Is prl? Is it deca itself as a neuro steroid? Is is something else?
Heres another one: 19-nors are said by some to be "progestins" i.e. can act on the receptors as such.

I didnt single out prolactin as the cause of why (perhaps misguidedly) I believe its neurotoxic.

Why are you then fixated on prolactin only? I am led to think its because guru Taeian has singled it out.

Seriously, if you love your dick you must run far far away from this guy. Deca dick may be a hit or miss in a regular (T containing) cycle or therapeutically, but if you follow this chap you are making it a 100% certainty.

Was just trying to have a productive convo in regards to nandrolone. I see ur not up for that. Thanks anyways

 

[tareload]

I see ur not up for that.

Where did the convo deviate from productive? Refute the points or debate.

 

[Gman86]

Where did the convo deviate from productive? Refute the points or debate.

Once a person would rather put down a person and talk down to them and try to make them feel dumb, instead of helping them learn, it’s no longer a productive conversion for both parties, imo, and not a conversation I want to be a part of. When mutual respect for eachother isn’t present, I’m out

 

[Jason Sypolt]

He obv isn’t measuring receptor sensitivity himself. He’s going off of studies that reported this. I’m not saying him or the studies are 100% correct. I personally believe most studies are flawed, and consequently the results/ conclusions of most studies end up being null and void most of the time, again imo. Clearly guys on deca and test have benefited from taking caber, yet I’ve never seen deca raise prolactin on a blood test. So the whole deca sensitizing prolactin receptors seemed to make sense. If deca doesn’t convert to prolactin realty at all, why do guys seems to benefit from taking caber when running both test and deca together?

Also, I believe u use nandrolone, correct? Are u personally worried about any neurotoxicity or dopamine issues using it long term? I’m also using nandrolone in my protocol, so I’m curious about ur thoughts on the subject

Really I believe the guys who feel well on Cabergoline are enjoying it for the better sex and orgasms. Just about anyone could take it and see that for themselves in less than a day. Until one day they find out that they are playing with fire when comes to their immune system and maybe heart if they abuse it or don’t truly need it.

I do take ND and have continuously since I started. I split my injections up and do each weekday and I have zero problems to report. I really have nothing but positive things to say about it.

I’m not concerned about dopamine for myself. I have the genes for significantly more dopamine receptors and available dopamine than the average person, so it’s almost always at an increased level for me. I take other things to manipulate dopamine and for cognitive improvement and “self-care”. Speaking of dopamine, there is a great book on it that Nelson showed me last weekend when I visited. The Molecule of More.

 

[bixt]

Really I believe the guys who feel well on Cabergoline are enjoying it for the better sex and orgasms. Just about anyone could take it and see that for themselves in less than a day. Until one day they find out that they are playing with fire when comes to their immune system and maybe heart if they abuse it or don’t truly need it.

I do take ND and have continuously since I started. I split my injections up and do each weekday and I have zero problems to report. I really have nothing but positive things to say about it.

I’m not concerned about dopamine for myself. I have the genes for significantly more dopamine receptors and available dopamine than the average person, so it’s almost always at an increased level for me. I take other things to manipulate dopamine and for cognitive improvement and “self-care”. Speaking of dopamine, there is a great book on it that Nelson showed me last weekend when I visited. The Molecule of More.

Hi Jason,

If one wanted to test for those specific genes (relating to 1. more dopamine receptors and 2. more dopamine), which ones should be checked for?

Lets say the results are unfavouruble for those genes, what do you suggest can be done to regain normalcy?

Im highly interested in doing this, if it can be done in my country.

 

[bixt]

Got the book! Going to have an interesting Sunday.

 

[Gman86]

Really I believe the guys who feel well on Cabergoline are enjoying it for the better sex and orgasms. Just about anyone could take it and see that for themselves in less than a day. Until one day they find out that they are playing with fire when comes to their immune system and maybe heart if they abuse it or don’t truly need it.

I do take ND and have continuously since I started. I split my injections up and do each weekday and I have zero problems to report. I really have nothing but positive things to say about it.

I’m not concerned about dopamine for myself. I have the genes for significantly more dopamine receptors and available dopamine than the average person, so it’s almost always at an increased level for me. I take other things to manipulate dopamine and for cognitive improvement and “self-care”. Speaking of dopamine, there is a great book on it that Nelson showed me last weekend when I visited. The Molecule of More.

I’ve been on nandrolone for quite a long time now as well, and can’t think of any negative issues to report from it either

From ur research, does nandrolone effect dopamine negatively at all? I don’t think I’ve come across anything to support that nandrolone effects dopamine in any negative ways. Have u?