Testosterone plus Clomid Combination

[Nelson Vergel]

GeauxBears said it well ! Thanks

Note: HCG mimics LH but it is not LH. HCG will have the same effect of T: Shut down LH and FSH. But, yes, it effectively raises intratesticular testosterone which keeps Leydig cells happy. The strangest thing about TRT when used alone it actually decreases the amount of testosterone inside the testicles and allows for Leydig cells to go dormant.

 

[Dougkuhns]

Hey Gene, I'm a bit lost here. I'm having terrible problems with water retention and my doctor believes it's from having too much estrogen. I'm taking trt and instead of putting me on an AI as I suggested she put me on Clomid to help with the water retention. I've not seen anything about this but what are your thoughts? I I personally think she should have listened to me and put me on an AI rather than the Clomid.

 

[JPB]

In broad-based theory since Clomid blocks negative feedback there should be some benefit to taking it while on TRT. However the devil is in the details and blood work would rule the day. Even a very minor benefit in LH levels would probably be sufficient to maintain testicle size and this would in my opinion be preferable to using HCG. So the debate will likely continue. As I recall, there was another MD "expert" who posted here some time ago who advocated smaller dosages of injectable T with Clomid.

 

[Imazephed]

I just started to take 12.5 EOD while on test and hcg 3x a week

I started with Defy a few years ago now I guess and Dr Kistler (sp) started me on a clomid regimn .25 eod. I reacted very well to it but my t levels only went from 170 to 450 500. I felt great the first three or four months but it never got over the hump or at least never felt like I did as far as feeling great goes. I moved up to 50 eod and only had a slight bump in t less than 100 points.

So I decided to use t and hcg along with anastrozole and see how I did. It was a process but dr saya got me along nicely and now I inject 3x a week .28 test and .35 hcg with .15 anastrozole and feel pretty good. I think I could feel better but who doesnt. Last consult a few weeks ago I asked about adding clomid since I had read about it in a thread here. He said he would try it and we could see how it works so I had labs pulled to see if it actually makes any difference in a few months time of adding 12.5 eod to my routine.

I will say that I liked the way clomid made me feel at first. I guess since I had such low levels for god knows how many years. I was 44 when I was tested for low t the first time and started with defy maybe 8 months later. Am now 46. My t runs 8-9 now on average. I have low sbhg and that is what I am hoping adding clomid might bump up a little. I figure it wont hurt to try and as long as I watch the labs I will know if its working or not. I am about two weeks in to 12.5 on the days i inject so 3x a week.

I just got the labs back from before I started adding the clomid I will post below

https://postimg.org/image/wfpoolx5h/

I tolerated clomid very well even at 50 eod so it wont hurt to try 12.5 3x a week to see if it makes me feel any better. And it wont hurt to compare the labs before and after to see if there is any difference either.

I am all about feeling as good as I can and how do you know what works until you actually try it. I trust dr saya implicitly and I asked him about it. He agreed to give it a try with him watching my labs and seeing how I felt. If it does work and I do feel better then great if not then I stop taking clomid. No big deal. I for one am very interested to see how it works out.

 

[Benning78]

Note to self dumb! I have just tead my post in 2018 again amd realised that I was wrong on clomid and trt.
Disregard all my posts on this.

 

[Benning78]

Not sure what I was thinking about but I was incorrect about use of clomid during trt.
You guys are correct.
Not sure what by brain was doing at the time
)

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

I’m most impressed that you read your old post(s) from 2016...great job sticking around!

 

[ckoko13]

While the correct answer is to take HCG while on TRT to ensure that you don't experience testicular atrophy there is reason to run Clomid with and even in SOME cases there are ppl who while doing TRT will run HCG, Clomid, and Arimidex. The HCG will help with LH but Clomid is needed to facilitate FSH which goes hand in hand, running test alone for an extended to indefinite amount of time calls for an anti estrogen to be taken with and that's where the Clomid steps into play, and since HCG is a staple in TRT, keep in mind that the HCG too runs the risk of elevating estrogen levels which makes running Clomid with your TRT regimen a MUST. Everyone has heard this or that from this person or that person because their doctor or so and so's doctor said this or that. The biggest piece of advice I will 1st give is NEVER IN ANY SCENARIO let your primary care physician start you on TRT. My primary care physician wanted to start me on TRT and luckily I had previous knowledge on all of this from MANY years of education & also talking, comparing, and seeing it in the proof from blood levels, & semen samples to you name it before I'd ever had a doctor want to put me on TRT and my primary care physician claimed he'd never heard of HCG when I brought it up until he said, "oh you mean that stuff that gynecologists put women on to help them get pregnant? Why would you possibly want to take that sir?" He asked. I IMMEDIATELY said, "I'd like to be referred to an endocrinologist"...So I went and saw him, he understood the use of HCG BUUUUT he for WHATEVER reason wouldn't prescribe it to me until it was "necessary"...so he was basically telling me, "well let's just wait until your nuts go from being the size of walnuts to the size of almonds & THEN we can start you on the HCG" AND on top of this he didn't prescribe Clomid either until ur tits were sagging down to your stomach...so I said forget this and then I went directly to a TRT/HRT clinic. It's a little more pricey but these doctors SPECIALIZE in TRT and THAT'S ALL THEY DO so they know EXACTLY what they're doing and they proved that to me when they put me on the EXACT same products that I would've put myself on. I just WISH I had the money to do HRT with TRT

 

[Benning78]

No, not Clomid. You're already HPTA suppressed.

You need HCG to keep your testes alive.

Much on the site to learn about HCG...but you don't need Clomid when on TRT.

Clomid brings up FSH by competing with estrogen and attaching to same receptors.
You know the story right?!
Even if on TRT Clomid will still binds to same receptors and does its job.
Clomid does not know you are on TRT!
You people are repeating same stuff docking something you did not try.
I am using clomid now as experiment and its working.
Been on trt for 3 years and balls came back.

 

[Benning78]

While the correct answer is to take HCG while on TRT to ensure that you don't experience testicular atrophy there is reason to run Clomid with and even in SOME cases there are ppl who while doing TRT will run HCG, Clomid, and Arimidex. The HCG will help with LH but Clomid is needed to facilitate FSH which goes hand in hand, running test alone for an extended to indefinite amount of time calls for an anti estrogen to be taken with and that's where the Clomid steps into play, and since HCG is a staple in TRT, keep in mind that the HCG too runs the risk of elevating estrogen levels which makes running Clomid with your TRT regimen a MUST. Everyone has heard this or that from this person or that person because their doctor or so and so's doctor said this or that. The biggest piece of advice I will 1st give is NEVER IN ANY SCENARIO let your primary care physician start you on TRT. My primary care physician wanted to start me on TRT and luckily I had previous knowledge on all of this from MANY years of education & also talking, comparing, and seeing it in the proof from blood levels, & semen samples to you name it before I'd ever had a doctor want to put me on TRT and my primary care physician claimed he'd never heard of HCG when I brought it up until he said, "oh you mean that stuff that gynecologists put women on to help them get pregnant? Why would you possibly want to take that sir?" He asked. I IMMEDIATELY said, "I'd like to be referred to an endocrinologist"...So I went and saw him, he understood the use of HCG BUUUUT he for WHATEVER reason wouldn't prescribe it to me until it was "necessary"...so he was basically telling me, "well let's just wait until your nuts go from being the size of walnuts to the size of almonds & THEN we can start you on the HCG" AND on top of this he didn't prescribe Clomid either until ur tits were sagging down to your stomach...so I said forget this and then I went directly to a TRT/HRT clinic. It's a little more pricey but these doctors SPECIALIZE in TRT and THAT'S ALL THEY DO so they know EXACTLY what they're doing and they proved that to me when they put me on the EXACT same products that I would've put myself on. I just WISH I had the money to do HRT with TRT

Good post man.
Started low dose clomid few weeks ago as I tried getting off TRT to make another kid but felt like shit off!
Now back on TRT with low dose clomid 25 mg 3 times a week and I feel much better and boys are coming back to life.

 

[Benning78]

Now I am not denying that clomid has no affect on LH in the presence of exogenous testosterone, but I don't understand how clomid can raise endogenous levels to 900 or more, and the HPTA is still not shut down. How is that endogenous 900 level from clomid different from the exogenous 900 level?

As in, how does the body "sense" exogenous testosterone and clomid simply won't work?
Body does not differentiate. If taking low dose clomid testest will produce and TRT will have combined effect.
Once Body senses any lack of either test of estrogen it will prouce no matter what.
TRT is low dose exogenous so HPTA is not that supressed as if being on large amounts.
After a while body gets used to TRT and will work with Clomid.I only speak based on my own experience and experiments.

 

[ckoko13]

Good post man.
Started low dose clomid few weeks ago as I tried getting off TRT to make another kid but felt like shit off!
Now back on TRT with low dose clomid 25 mg 3 times a week and I feel much better and boys are coming back to life.

Yes sir. Fully agreed. I always tell people too that in SOME cases (say for example they either disagree with me or have more to add or whatever the case may be that certain regimens are a case by case scenario), me for example, I have heard people disagree with me on use of Clomid and/or Arimidex but FOR ME I DO NEED to be using these because even though yes the HCG is what brought my testicle size back to 100% the size they are naturally, I am also looking to conceive a child and MANY TRT specialists and doctors ALL agree that Clomid is actually what will keep the man fertile while on exogenous testosterone, contrary to those who have always thought that HCG alone played that role as well. And when I mentioned case by case scenario earlier I was in large part refererring to your blood samples given as an individual. Your doctor or TRT specialist should be searching for a number of different things given your specific goal in mind. So having said that it's very hard to say that there is 1 correct answer out there and 1 only because that would be impossible as we are all individuals and we all have different goals that we're trying to accomplish and we all have different blood running through our veins. I'm glad to hear that you're doing good and that everything is back to normal while you're on TRT. I will NEVER claim to be an expert or to have EVERY answer out there for EVERYONE but I can ALWAYS share my personal experiences whether it was what worked for me or did NOT work for me and what currently DOES work for me even if it's just to help 1 person achieve or shed light on what can and will help them.

 

[ckoko13]

Clomid brings up FSH by competing with estrogen and attaching to same receptors.
You know the story right?!
Even if on TRT Clomid will still binds to same receptors and does its job.
Clomid does not know you are on TRT!
You people are repeating same stuff docking something you did not try.
I am using clomid now as experiment and its working.
Been on trt for 3 years and balls came back.

Good stuff man. Glad to hear all is well. It's ALWAYS good to hear when a person has figured out their regimen and is achieving what they set out to do.

 

[leatherjacket99]

I am 31 and also low SHBG guy (9-12) who has been on TRT for a few years and unable to find a solid protocol that works for me, but my doctor I recently started experimenting with Clomid while using injections (for fertility purposes) and I can definitely say that I feel something (it gives my lame libido a significant boost). I went ahead and did blood work and as Dr. Saya and everyone else has said my FSH and LH were extremely low, FSH was <0.7 L Range 1.6-8.0 mIU/mL and LH was <0.2 L Range 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL. I know what I'm feeling isn't placebo, so I guess I'm asking could this feeling be an estrogenic boost because I am on EOD injections and not converting E2 like I used to when I was on once a week injections OR I have also read that Clomid may raise SHBG, could this be a slight boost in SHBG I am experiencing which allows me to feel the benefits of TRT slightly better? Just curious what it is I'm feeling. Thanks for any help you guys provide!

 

[Imazephed]

I am also a low sbhg guy on trt for close to 4 years now who started 12.5 clomid eod to see if it would help raise sbhg. It really hasnt done much but I do feel a little better so I am going to continue and see where it goes.
My regimen is mon,wed,fri
.30ml cyp
.35ml hcg
.15mg anastrozole

1500 mg Metformin ED

12.5 mg clomid eod

my latest labs
Testosterone, Total 1031 ng/ dL195.0 - 1138.0 ng/dL
Testosterone, Free 36.7 pg/mL 5.1 - 41.5 pg/mL
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 13nmol L11 - 56 nmol/L
DHEA-SO4 214.1 ug/dL 136.2 - 447.6 ug/dL
TSH 1.836 uIU/mL 0.340 - 5.600 uIU/mL
T3, Free 2.8 pg/mL 2.3 - 4.2 pg/mL
Free T4 0.75 ng/dL 0.71 - 1.51 ng/dL
LH <0.1 mIU/mL 0.6 - 12.1 mIU/mL
FSH 0.80 mIU/mL 0.95 - 11.95 mIU/mL


My sbhg has actually dropped from 21 (4/18) when I took labs from just before adding 12.5 (5/18) clomid eod but I do feel better despite the numbers. I had an injury and stopped all working out and cardio about a month after adding the clomid. I think the drop is from lack of physical activity. I was riding 24 miles a day and lifting 4 days a week when I took the labs with a sbhg of 21. Prior to working out and daily cardio my sbhg stayed around 9-12. It seems a regular routine of physical activity including weight training and daily cardio raises sbhg significantly. I was also following a strict paleo diet when I tested 21 and since then have eaten garbage for the last 5 months gaining back 65 pounds of lost weight. So the drop could have something to do with diet and weight gain as well. I do feel better and tolerate clomid very well so based off that I will continue 12.5 eod and maybe even try 25 for a few months to see if there is any positive benefit. Dr Saya told me yesterday that it would be fine if I wanted to go up to 25 eod to see if there was any improvement.

I plan on going back strict paleo Nov 1 and getting back into lifting and riding shortly after. The thing with TRT and all hormone therapy I have come to realizes is its long term. You cant expect overnight success. It takes a lot of adjusting to find what works best for you.

Dr Saya is starting me on 1 grain Desiccated thyroid to see if it helps with my lower end thyroid levels. I am very nervous about the possible sides. I am a rather anxious person and hate pcv's and fast heart rate. So I hope I am able to tolerate it well and get improved thyroid function without any nasty sides.

 

[Systemlord]

I also have seen my SHBG levels return to pre-TRT (22-->18-->16-->22) levels on smaller injections EOD and weightlifting and diet changes. I'm considering switching to as daily protocol.

 

[Vince]

Clomid blocks E2 at the hypothalamus/pituitary level. The brain goes "holy crap, I have no E2, that means I have no T", and so it secretes LH/FSH to stimulate the testicles to produce more T. As long as a man isn't primary and he creating ample LH/FSH from the clomid stimulation, his T (and resulting E2) will rise. BUT the brain still doesn't "see" the E2 because the clomid continues to block it, so the body keeps stimulating with LH/FSH.

If you inject exogenous T, the brain goes "ok, we have plenty of T, no need to make our own" and shuts down LH/FSH, thus stopping the testicles from producing. Injected HCG is analogous to LH, so it stimuates the testicles a bit just to keep them alive and at their full size.

Excellent explanation.

 

[Benning78]

It's simple; Exogenous testosterone via the negative feedback look shuts down HPTA; meaning that your Hypothalamus, Pituitary and Testicles don't work anymore...that normal.

Clomid, in simple terms, stimulates the Pituitary to produce more LH but it can't because of the HPTA suppression.

In HRT it's either one of the other; Testosterone Replacement or Clomid Supplementation.

If you are on TRT and you want to keep your Testes alive you need HCG not Clomid.

So much on this here on the site to learn it's not even funny; but why do you think 99.9% on here use HCG and NOT Clomid on TRT???

Because their Doctors know the difference.

You have tried Clomid your self while on TRT?

 

[Benning78]

Clomid blocks E2 at the hypothalamus/pituitary level. The brain goes "holy crap, I have no E2, that means I have no T", and so it secretes LH/FSH to stimulate the testicles to produce more T. As long as a man isn't primary and he creating ample LH/FSH from the clomid stimulation, his T (and resulting E2) will rise. BUT the brain still doesn't "see" the E2 because the clomid continues to block it, so the body keeps stimulating with LH/FSH.

If you inject exogenous T, the brain goes "ok, we have plenty of T, no need to make our own" and shuts down LH/FSH, thus stopping the testicles from producing. Injected HCG is analogous to LH, so it stimuates the testicles a bit just to keep them alive and at their full size.

Ok we all know what they wrote here million years ago.
Have you teken Clomid while on TRT your self?

 

[Benning78]

Facts and truth: Besides what Dr. Saya posted above please provide any clinical research, papers or documents that support what your claim. That would go a long way to prove what you say.

My balls are bigger while on Clomid and TRT.