Severe Sides After Ceasing 25mg Clomid + 1mg Anastrozole

[tcmi]

Sorry to hear your story. Been there, done that. Awful experience - I've never felt worse in my life. I was also told to take 2mg Arimidex. It completely killed my estradiol. I had no idea what was going on. The doctor didn't know what he was doing. Like you, I finally just stopped cold turkey. It took a few months to normalize. I later learned that I could only handle 0.25mg of Arimidex per week max. Starting three years ago, I stopped Arimidex entirely and have never felt better on TRT. Good luck finding someone who knows what they're doing.

 

[Dicky]

FWIW I took 6.25MG Clomid 2 days in a row. The first day I felt a little wired and unsettled. The next day I was an anxious, paranoid mess. It was not a pleasant experience at all. After the 2nd day I never took another dose.

Note: at the time I was on 120mg/week of T cypionate.

 

[donkeyfarlo]

WOW, I'm really sorry you went through all of this. How awful. I've experienced the same insane symptoms from something else I did a few years ago.. crippling anxiety, panic attacks, then fell into a dark clinical depression.... It was terrifying.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know you have a friend that can sympathize with your pain.

I do pray you get feeling better.

Thank you so much for the support, seriously.

Sorry to hear your story. Been there, done that. Awful experience - I've never felt worse in my life. I was also told to take 2mg Arimidex. It completely killed my estradiol. I had no idea what was going on. The doctor didn't know what he was doing. Like you, I finally just stopped cold turkey. It took a few months to normalize. I later learned that I could only handle 0.25mg of Arimidex per week max. Starting three years ago, I stopped Arimidex entirely and have never felt better on TRT. Good luck finding someone who knows what they're doing.

Easily the worst ~6 weeks of my life. I've had food poisoning multiple times, dislocations, "stress" with finances and relationships, but I have never before felt like I was literally losing my mind and personality at the same time. I'm so glad to hear you are back to normal and having great success on regular TRT.

I've had a couple consults with Defy Medical and the depth of their knowledge is really impressive. I have yet to have any treatment from them, but for anyone considering TRT that is definitely the direction I would point them.

That being said, my primary care naturopath recommended another naturopath local to me that specializes in hormone therapy. I met with him in person and was also impressed with his level of knowledge and experience. A couple weeks later, after the replies here hypothesized I may have crashed my estrodial, I sent him a note on his patient portal... Worried, of course, wondering if there's anything I could do, wanting more labs, etc; standard anxious behavior.

He replied to me, on a Sunday no less, and I'm going to share it here because I think it might help someone going through this same sort of thing, which is apparently like the most common issue reported on this forum:

Keep in mind that there is unlikely any strong residual physiological/chemical process still happening. Your dosing was suboptimal indeed, but not grossly damaging long term. What was more damaging was the docs refusal to listen to how you were feeling. Sometimes hormones wake up feelings and anxieties that have been laying dormant for decades - perhaps things you've never felt in your life. Having those things wake up and stir inside you can create a cycle of worry and fear - what if I feel like this forever? This process in itself is self-defeating. Try to focus on the good that you feel. Check in and acknowledge when you feel grounded and strong. Choose not to let anxiety make a permanent home in your mind, not even a small room. Much easier said than done, for sure, but that is the mentality I would encourage you to adopt. Simply refuse. Part of that is letting go of those feelings of harm, blame, and causation. Forgive those involved. Embrace the lessons learned, and move on. Letting go will allow you to be less vigilant of what your body is feeling and doing. After one has been harmed, hyper-vigilance (being very sensitive to any mind or body changes that would have previously gone ignored) is very common and has to be unlearned. Sometimes this can require biofeedback or cognitive behavioral therapy, sometimes we can get through it with time and refocusing on the good as I suggested previously.

I'm sure there's a bit of coincidence happening as the following Monday was the beginning of my sixth week since getting off of everything, but reading this changed everything for me. "Simply refuse" has become my mantra. Any time I start to feel the stomach clench or the mental discomfort, "Simply refuse." Again, likely a coincidence with the dosage ceasing, but every day since reading that note on Sunday has been significantly better for me. Appetite returning, nearly no anxiety, and a whole lot of hope. Once my anxiety normalizes completely, I'm going to get a comprehensive lab and discuss options with him.

Despite going through this, I do actually believe enclomiphine can work for people and should not be demonized. People just don't bother to post on forums when things go right which totally makes sense. I agree that it is much more likely that it was the high dose anastrozole that ended up doing me in, although the zuclomiphine certainly was not helping. Find a doc that knows their shit. Anyone considering any of this should just reach out to Defy and use them as the standard to compare anyone else to (or just work with them!)

I'll say again that I'm very grateful for this forum. Experts reassuring me that it will pass, others answering questions and citing studies, and others still offering support and compassion. This is what the internet was supposed to be for, so thanks again to everyone.

 

[Dicky]

Thank you so much for the support, seriously.



Easily the worst ~6 weeks of my life. I've had food poisoning multiple times, dislocations, "stress" with finances and relationships, but I have never before felt like I was literally losing my mind and personality at the same time. I'm so glad to hear you are back to normal and having great success on regular TRT.

I've had a couple consults with Defy Medical and the depth of their knowledge is really impressive. I have yet to have any treatment from them, but for anyone considering TRT that is definitely the direction I would point them.

That being said, my primary care naturopath recommended another naturopath local to me that specializes in hormone therapy. I met with him in person and was also impressed with his level of knowledge and experience. A couple weeks later, after the replies here hypothesized I may have crashed my estrodial, I sent him a note on his patient portal... Worried, of course, wondering if there's anything I could do, wanting more labs, etc; standard anxious behavior.

He replied to me, on a Sunday no less, and I'm going to share it here because I think it might help someone going through this same sort of thing, which is apparently like the most common issue reported on this forum:



I'm sure there's a bit of coincidence happening as the following Monday was the beginning of my sixth week since getting off of everything, but reading this changed everything for me. "Simply refuse" has become my mantra. Any time I start to feel the stomach clench or the mental discomfort, "Simply refuse." Again, likely a coincidence with the dosage ceasing, but every day since reading that note on Sunday has been significantly better for me. Appetite returning, nearly no anxiety, and a whole lot of hope. Once my anxiety normalizes completely, I'm going to get a comprehensive lab and discuss options with him.

Despite going through this, I do actually believe enclomiphine can work for people and should not be demonized. People just don't bother to post on forums when things go right which totally makes sense. I agree that it is much more likely that it was the high dose anastrozole that ended up doing me in, although the zuclomiphine certainly was not helping. Find a doc that knows their shit. Anyone considering any of this should just reach out to Defy and use them as the standard to compare anyone else to (or just work with them!)

I'll say again that I'm very grateful for this forum. Experts reassuring me that it will pass, others answering questions and citing studies, and others still offering support and compassion. This is what the internet was supposed to be for, so thanks again to everyone.

Pretty impressive that your doc took the time on a Sunday to compose that helpful response.

 

[donkeyfarlo]

Figured I'd update the Live Journal of Woe, if for no other reason that it gives me something to engage my mind on and is therapeutic. Monday the 9th of May marks 6 weeks since I discontinued Clomid, and today marks 6 weeks since my last dose of Anastrozole.

I now seem to be in a recurring cycle of hope/relief and dread/despair. Halfway through Friday and through the majority of Saturday I felt absolutely back to normal... I know because I was grumpy, heh. But no tension in the stomach or head, and an overarching sensation of relief, generally speaking. I had scheduled an appointment with a therapist Tuesday and was even starting to think "man I won't even need that now".

Things change, though, and the dip in cryptocurrency markets set me off last night, right before bed. (I'll take this opportunity to mention that investing in the cryptocurrency space with an anxiety disorder; temporary or not, is a very, very bad idea.) I have actually taken care to avoid watching the prices move, as I know I have not been in a state to react to them rationally, however this alert was an email notification so it caught me off guard... Now I'm wishing I had scheduled the therapist sooner :/

I actually handled it pretty well compared to how I know I would have just a week or two ago. The anxiety was still unpleasant but I was at least able to somewhat rationalize it. It's okay to be a little upset/concerned/uncomfortable about this situation. Unfortunately things started to spiral from there so it was quite an effort to try to hold those thoughts back while laying in bed trying to sleep.

I woke up still feeling somewhat uneasy but certainly better than I had in the past. I went through my daily routine (small meal, 30 minute brisk walk) in an effort to settle down but still couldn't shake it so I did finally cave and take a Lorazepam.

It seems like the more frequently I get a taste of 'normal' the less patience I have for 'anxious'. It's quite cruel, bouncing back and forth between the two. Just when you think it might finally be over and let your guard down, it comes roaring back.

Has anyone else had this experience toward the end of this detox process? Roughly one good day then one bad day, alternating, until finally the good days just stay?

 

[donkeyfarlo]

So just got some fresh T and E labs and figured I'd share. This was just shy of 6 weeks after ceasing all clomid and anastrozole; the draw was Friday the 6th and my 6 week anniversary was Monday the 9th.

I'm still having pretty crippling anxiety problems, and it looks like my estrodial is anything but low, so perhaps its just excessive worry from high E? I'm waiting to hear back from my new doc, but if anyone has an opinion on T/E ratio or anything else here I'd love to hear it.

 

[Systemlord]

So just got some fresh T and E labs and figured I'd share. This was just shy of 6 weeks after ceasing all clomid and anastrozole; the draw was Friday the 6th and my 6 week anniversary was Monday the 9th.

I'm still having pretty crippling anxiety problems, and it looks like my estrodial is anything but low, so perhaps its just excessive worry from high E? I'm waiting to hear back from my new doc, but if anyone has an opinion on T/E ratio or anything else here I'd love to hear it.

A 32 estrogen level isn't high, normal ranges for men is 20-35 pg/mL. Obese men have higher levels than this naturally.

Your testosterone panel is underwhelming.

 

[Gman86]

So just got some fresh T and E labs and figured I'd share. This was just shy of 6 weeks after ceasing all clomid and anastrozole; the draw was Friday the 6th and my 6 week anniversary was Monday the 9th.

I'm still having pretty crippling anxiety problems, and it looks like my estrodial is anything but low, so perhaps its just excessive worry from high E? I'm waiting to hear back from my new doc, but if anyone has an opinion on T/E ratio or anything else here I'd love to hear it.

Ur E2 isn’t the issue. When I had free T levels like urs I felt absolutely horrible. Everyday was torture. Had most low T issues other than sexual issues.

 

[Cataceous]

Overall the numbers look reasonable. Vermeulen calculated free testosterone is 11 ng/dL, which I view as being into the healthy normal range. If you want more certainly then retest with Quest's dialysis method. The E2/T ratio is 0.57%, which is at the upper end of a normal range of about 0.3-0.6%.

Do you have any recent progesterone measurements? Progesterone tends to be calming. If it's on the low side then you might consider a trial of supplementation to balance the estradiol and see if it reduces the anxiety.