Testosterone Cream Success (Almost!)

[Gman86]

I did try and it and initially it seemed good. But that quickly went away and I continued to have heart palpitation (had palps on injections as well) plus some other issues as well.

But...I seem to be a hard case for TRT. Have tried many things and it just does not seem to work well for me.

That being said, I am thinking about trying a test prop protocol and see how that plays out.

Yep...I am a glutton for punishment.

Whats been ur issues on TRT so far? I also tried test prop at one point, wasn’t very successful. Test levels would drop faster than E2. E2 rises and decreases slower than test does, so ended up with high E2 and less than optimal free T levels. Just couldn’t get that protocol to work

 

[BigBamBoo]

Whats been ur issues on TRT so far? I also tried test prop at one point, wasn’t very successful. Test levels would drop faster than E2. E2 rises and decreases slower than test does, so ended up with high E2 and less than optimal free T levels. Just couldn’t get that protocol to work

So here are some of the issues I have when on TRT. Lowering the dose helps with some of them but then I don’t feel the benefits of TRT.

Flat emotionally...I just become very linear. Lose interest in most things.
Tingling in my right hand. Like carpel tunnel.
My left eye waters constantly.
Water retention
Have a very hard time achieving orgasm.
When I can get off, the volume and force is very little which decreases the pleasure for me.
Heart palpitations.
I start snoring....I never snored prior to TRT and once I stopped TRT I magically stopped snoring.

Those are the main ones.

The positives are I feel bettering physically...less aches and pains. My sports performance goes up. Recovery from working out is much faster.

What I need is to supplement T...not replace it. If they ever figure out how to do that, that will be a game changer for many men.

My natural TT is around 600, but I have high SHBG so my FT is on the low side.

As you mentioned with test prop the E2 issues might be an issue. I think I would do better with the “swing” of the fast acting esters, but the slower rise and fall of E might not work well.

We will see.

 

[Cataceous]

...
What I need is to supplement T...not replace it. If they ever figure out how to do that, that will be a game changer for many men.
...

Natesto approximates this. Because it is short-acting it is not very suppressive of the HPTA.

... I think I would do better with the “swing” of the fast acting esters, but the slower rise and fall of E might not work well.
...

I found that straight propionate causes excessive variation in serum testosterone, with daily troughs around a third of the peak values. In natural men the troughs aren't much lower than 60% of the peaks. It's possible to tune the variation by blending the propionate with a longer ester, such as cypionate. The lag of estradiol in relation to testosterone is going to be more apparent in a daily cycle, but this is how things works in natural men, with no issues. In fact a possible benefit of estradiol's lag in these short cycles is that peaks and troughs of estradiol may be muted compared to when testosterone is changing slowly, such as when only longer esters are used.

 

[Abuser200]

0.16ML Cypionate 2X/week
0.25ML HCG 2X/week
1 or 2 "clicks" / day of 200MG/ML testosterone cream

So thats 32mg 2x/week?
Do you do AM and PM application?
How are your numbers on that protocol?

 

[Fortunate]

Since this started as a cream thread, wondering if anyone else wants to comment on cream experience. You can see throughout the forum, I have been on and off cream. As of now, I am using a really low dose (37.5mg) to shoulder in the AM to supplement Natesto. Seemed to be a nice balance, but after a few days, noticing a crash around 4pm like the OP described.

I don't know if the crash is flagging T or rising E2. Hard to say. I have tried a number of variations of protocols and not sure what I plan to settle in on. Considering twice a day cream. On the other hand, if the crash is from elevated E2, adding more cream will just eventually raise my E2 even further.

Natesto alone seems simple enough, but I don't think it pushes the libido, which is why I am adding the cream.

Just my stream of thoughts...

 

[wondering]

do 50mg twice a day.

one at 9AM, the other one at 4PM

Is it still working for you?

 

[Willyt]

Since this started as a cream thread, wondering if anyone else wants to comment on cream experience. You can see throughout the forum, I have been on and off cream. As of now, I am using a really low dose (37.5mg) to shoulder in the AM to supplement Natesto. Seemed to be a nice balance, but after a few days, noticing a crash around 4pm like the OP described.

I don't know if the crash is flagging T or rising E2. Hard to say. I have tried a number of variations of protocols and not sure what I plan to settle in on. Considering twice a day cream. On the other hand, if the crash is from elevated E2, adding more cream will just eventually raise my E2 even further.

Natesto alone seems simple enough, but I don't think it pushes the libido, which is why I am adding the cream.

Just my stream of thoughts...

@Fortunate - I have the exact same afternoon crash with cream as have many others. Some can tolerate a 2nd dose in the evening, but I find it sabotages my sleep which is crappy to begin with. Try it and report back.

One thought. I completely get why you are adding the cream for libido. Natesto has zero improvement on my pre-TRT libido (might even make it worse). However, combining Natesto and cream might be counterproductive.

I tried cream on a daily basis and on an intermittent basis. In both cases, my blood tests showed a near-complete HPTA shutdown (TT down to 160s). With Natesto, I had no such shutdown (in fact my baseline TT increased), which is consistent with the research that has been done. So by adding cream, you may be negating the main benefit of Natesto - i.e., minimal disruption of the upstream hormones.

By contrast, an injection protocol has already shut down the HPTA so adding cream would not impact that piece of the puzzle.

Of course, if the cream-Natesto combo is improving your libido, maybe you're on to something.

 

[Fortunate]

@Fortunate - I have the exact same afternoon crash with cream as have many others. Some can tolerate a 2nd dose in the evening, but I find it sabotages my sleep which is crappy to begin with. Try it and report back.

One thought. I completely get why you are adding the cream for libido. Natesto has zero improvement on my pre-TRT libido (might even make it worse). However, combining Natesto and cream might be counterproductive.

I tried cream on a daily basis and on an intermittent basis. In both cases, my blood tests showed a near-complete HPTA shutdown (TT down to 160s). With Natesto, I had no such shutdown (in fact my baseline TT increased), which is consistent with the research that has been done. So by adding cream, you may be negating the main benefit of Natesto - i.e., minimal disruption of the upstream hormones.

By contrast, an injection protocol has already shut down the HPTA so adding cream would not impact that piece of the puzzle.

Of course, if the cream-Natesto combo is improving your libido, maybe you're on to something.

 

[Fortunate]

@Willyt ,
Thanks for the response. Bummer I can't figure this out. Cream is really convenient and I feel pretty good on it minus the crash.

Does anyone who has ever experienced this want to be a guinea pig? Would love to see a set of labs during the "crash". It may help determine if the crash is dropping T levels, rising E2 levels, neither?

 

[Zibernet]

So here are some of the issues I have when on TRT. Lowering the dose helps with some of them but then I don’t feel the benefits of TRT.

Flat emotionally...I just become very linear. Lose interest in most things.
Tingling in my right hand. Like carpel tunnel.
My left eye waters constantly.
Water retention
Have a very hard time achieving orgasm.
When I can get off, the volume and force is very little which decreases the pleasure for me.
Heart palpitations.
I start snoring....I never snored prior to TRT and once I stopped TRT I magically stopped snoring.

Those are the main ones.

The positives are I feel bettering physically...less aches and pains. My sports performance goes up. Recovery from working out is much faster.

What I need is to supplement T...not replace it. If they ever figure out how to do that, that will be a game changer for many men.

My natural TT is around 600, but I have high SHBG so my FT is on the low side.

As you mentioned with test prop the E2 issues might be an issue. I think I would do better with the “swing” of the fast acting esters, but the slower rise and fall of E might not work well.

We will see.

Are you me ?

I can relate to every single thing you wrote.