Tested my son for testosterone

[Charliebizz]

I was on a forum called MindandMuscle.net when the Dr. Mariano low dose SSRI craze swept through. It was thought to be almost a panacea and people were trying it for everything: chronic fatigue, stress, allergies, autoimmune disorders, and other inflammatory conditions, in addition to the usual suspects like anxiety and depression.

One thing is for sure: SSRIs produce strong effects at doses far lower than they are typically prescribed. The normal starting doses are very much like beginning TRT at 200 mg weekly.

Exactly brother. When I was younger (around 18 ) I was on the highest dose of paxil for anxiety. i Gained like 70lbs and couldnt climax lol. i Quit it after 2 years no problem. This time around I was using 2.5mg of lexapro. (Age 35 ) No sides at all. I got off after 4 years cause I wanted to see how I would do with out it. I honestly think I was better on it. But been hesitant to get back on.

 

[TLawyer]

I couldn't agree with you more @Charliebizz. Natesto is absolutely out of the question. It's over $200 at GoodRx. I know a UG lab that makes it for $100 (still to much) but having to put this crap up you nose 3 times a day for the rest of your life is not feasible. My whole family has sinus problems and there is no way that will work. Nor is it financially feasible. I paid $45 for 10g of test enanthate and already made it made with GSO. As I said, I was sent a free sample of a nasal gel by a UG lab to test, I absolutely hated it and gave it a week and tossed it in the trash can.

Here, right out of GoodRX : Natesto (testosterone nasal gel) can cause nasal side effects such as a common cold, runny nose, nosebleeds, nasal discomfort, and nasal scabbing. Natesto is not recommended for use in patients with a history of nasal disorders; history of nasal or sinus surgery; history of nasal fracture.​

I'll go sub-q or even deep IM any day over this. It's worse that having to use nasal spray. IMHO, it is definitely an "inferior" way to deliver testosterone. I would much rather use test base in BA/DMSO 3 x/d

I guess for some it is hard for some of us to understand someone being financially unable to do things. Maybe for some of us money grows on trees? I have no problem keeping the kid supplied with testosterone and insulin syringes until he gets his feet on the ground, can get insurance and pay for his own. Speaking of that he is still doing very well. My wife and I are both happy with the progress, he is on his 3rd week I guess of going to the gym....5 days a week. Not so bad since he has not been to the gym in 8 years.

@Systemlord - "Studies show loss of vigor and libido starts <500. The fact he's only got one functioning testicle makes for a stronger case notwithstanding for what is suboptimal T."

Absolutely, which is why my wife and I made the decision to help him. Especially when old norms show a guy this age at 700-900. Doesn't take a million and 1 blood test to figure out this equation. Just like it didn't take my doctor long to figure my case out. Long term testosterone use....no doubt I was competely shut down and didn't want to be at 320 because I did not feel normal. Again, the co-pay for my doctor was $5 and after my insurance approved me the test was $5. Had he done none of this, I would have taken care of the issue myself like I have been doing for years. Now I am legal and can get on a public board and talk about it.

Kind of hard to believe @TLawyer is still going on and on about this. If other young guys came to this board they would be absolutely scare to death to talk about it and would no doubt go to their gym steroid dealer for advice. Keep on sniffing that nasal spray and believing that blood testing like @Charliebizz mentioned is the end all. The word hypochondriac comes to mind. I feel bad because my blood test show I do, therefore I feel bad.

Yea, @Charliebizz it is common for even PRO bodybuilders to completely come clean and go to baseline after a contest cycle. Atheletes figured our how to do this a long time ago. Most drug test are passed this way.

You seem to miss the point of trying the nasal gel, but I'm not shocked. It would be a temporary measure to see if your son was helped by a boost in testosterone without shutting him down. If it works, great. He can then look at long-term treatments, like injections, as he knows that TRT is his future. If it didn't work, then he can come off immediately without doing any harm to his system or needing him to make another big adjustment. You've described him as unstable and a complete mess. Considering his clearly fragile condition, he probably wouldn't do well with a jolt to the system coming on and off and the potential for his hormones to get at least temporarily pretty out of whack.

I get that you've abused steroids in your past and you choose conspiracy theories over science. Blood tests don't matter to you, the latest scientific research doesn't matter to you, the latest treatments don't matter to you. The only thing that matters to you is 40 years of running gear and your one size fits all approach here. There's no sense in discussing costs or numbers with you (although the Empower version of the nasal gel is less than $100 per month). I would hope that you, your wife and your son could collectively scrape up a few hundred dollars to approach your son's treatment in a more scientific and responsible manner, but so be it.

Call me a hypochondriac if you want (there's some more name calling, but at least you spelled it correctly) for wanting to take a scientific, measured approach to treating someone who can't get his act together as a 26-year-old grown man. If that's what a hypochondriac is, then I'll gladly take that title. I think your son needs a lot more help than TRT and that you're using his testosterone level to help him avoid responsibility for his actions and decisions (not doing him any favors there as a parent), but you have tunnel vision. When other young guys come on this board, I hope their takeaway is to talk with a qualified doctor in the field, get the appropriate tests to try and determine their problem, and be responsible in their treatment. My hope is that they won't get treatment advice from Lyle Alzado or Jose Canseco. If that's not the consensus on this forum, then it's time for me to check out.

 

[Charliebizz]

You seem to miss the point of trying the nasal gel, but I'm not shocked. It would be a temporary measure to see if your son was helped by a boost in testosterone without shutting him down. If it works, great. He can then look at long-term treatments, like injections, as he knows that TRT is his future. If it didn't work, then he can come off immediately without doing any harm to his system or needing him to make another big adjustment. You've described him as unstable and a complete mess. Considering his clearly fragile condition, he probably wouldn't do well with a jolt to the system coming on and off and the potential for his hormones to get at least temporarily pretty out of whack.

I get that you've abused steroids in your past and you choose conspiracy theories over science. Blood tests don't matter to you, the latest scientific research doesn't matter to you, the latest treatments don't matter to you. The only thing that matters to you is 40 years of running gear and your one size fits all approach here. There's no sense in discussing costs or numbers with you (although the Empower version of the nasal gel is less than $100 per month). I would hope that you, your wife and your son could collectively scrape up a few hundred dollars to approach your son's treatment in a more scientific and responsible manner, but so be it.

Call me a hypochondriac if you want (there's some more name calling, but at least you spelled it correctly) for wanting to take a scientific, measured approach to treating someone who can't get his act together as a 26-year-old grown man. If that's what a hypochondriac is, then I'll gladly take that title. I think your son needs a lot more help than TRT and that you're using his testosterone level to help him avoid responsibility for his actions and decisions (not doing him any favors there as a parent), but you have tunnel vision. When other young guys come on this board, I hope their takeaway is to talk with a qualified doctor in the field, get the appropriate tests to try and determine their problem, and be responsible in their treatment. My hope is that they won't get treatment advice from Lyle Alzado or Jose Canseco. If that's not the consensus on this forum, then it's time for me to check out.

Jesus Christ man give it up. your Talking to men who have been on and off trt and testosterone for years. Ive been in the trt world for 15 years. I never took steroids. I have coke on and off trt a few times. The whole “crash” when coming off is so over sold. my Baseline t levels were around 250. I’ve tested as low as 168. And as high as 400. Feeling exactly the same. So you think dropping down to 50 (speculation) feels much different?
if the kid is going to an “experiment“ why not do the tried and true method? look at the natesto threads for guys that actually used it. Nobody got full symptom relief. They were lacking few key things that make men want to use testosterone. Also look how many men have even tried it. Maybe a hand full? It’s an inferior method. The guy doesn’t want to use it. So why are you stuck on it. If I quit trt right now I bet in a few weeks I would be right back to my shit numbers that lead me to trt in the first place. What is your point. You do realize a 26 year old with t levels of 475 at peak probably aren’t a great thing ? I have low shbg and the highest I ever tested was 425tt. Guess what my free t was? 80. Guess how I felt ? Same as when it was 40 lol.

And To your last statement, about jose Canseco. You do realize who pushed the field of trt forward right? body builders!! if not for them we would be stuck on 200mg injections but weekly. Do you remember dr crisler ? Pioneer in trt ! Pretty jacked dude. Started his practice pretty much helping guys recover from steroid abuse! I can go on and on. You lost this one buddy give it up. Do you have kids ? That’s the real question. The man is trying to help his son in a really bad spot. Waited over 9 years before trying trt. And your whole argument turned into he should try natesto first. oh Did we not for get he’s 26 with one testicle. Give it a rest man

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Exactly brother. When I was younger (around 18 ) I was on the highest dose of paxil for anxiety. i Gained like 70lbs and couldnt climax lol. i Quit it after 2 years no problem. This time around I was using 2.5mg of lexapro. (Age 35 ) No sides at all. I got off after 4 years cause I wanted to see how I would do with out it. I honestly think I was better on it. But been hesitant to get back on.

I found even 2.5 mg of lexapro reduced motivation and eliminated anxiety in a pathological way. What I mean by that is there is a certain amount of anxiety that is necessary and productive, especially in the workplace, depending on your profession. I found myself not worrying about deadlines and not preparing as well for projects because I was unconcerned about what could go wrong. The drug can give you a false sense of security that everything will be fine, when you have not done the work to ensure that. I'm certain it would have damaged my career over the long-term.

This artificial sense of the "alrightness" of everything also affects the personal life negatively. Forward progress and growth depends on dissatisfaction with the status quo. Even small doses of SSRI can remove the sting from a stagnant life and make the comfort zone feel that much more comfortable.

One of the final straws for me was when my cat was dying and it didn't seem to bother me. I'm thinking, "shouldn't I be sad right now?", but there was just no emotion there. I realized, this is not me, this is not my personality, and I don't like it.

 

[tareload]

What I mean by that is there is a certain amount of anxiety that is necessary and productive, especially in the workplace, depending on your profession. I found myself not worrying about deadlines and not preparing as well for projects because I was unconcerned about what could go wrong. The drug can give you a false sense of security that everything will be fine, when you have not done the work to ensure that. I'm certain it would have damaged my career over the long-term.

Whoa, never ever got to see what that is like. Must be weird. Thanks for the tip. I think I will continue to take a look at the Lexapro bottle every once and a while then put it back in the cabinet without opening. That approach seems to be working ok with all the AAS in the fridge. Probably a good approach in general with meds.

 

[Charliebizz]

You seem to miss the point of trying the nasal gel, but I'm not shocked. It would be a temporary measure to see if your son was helped by a boost in testosterone without shutting him down. If it works, great. He can then look at long-term treatments, like injections, as he knows that TRT is his future. If it didn't work, then he can come off immediately without doing any harm to his system or needing him to make another big adjustment. You've described him as unstable and a complete mess. Considering his clearly fragile condition, he probably wouldn't do well with a jolt to the system coming on and off and the potential for his hormones to get at least temporarily pretty out of whack.

I get that you've abused steroids in your past and you choose conspiracy theories over science. Blood tests don't matter to you, the latest scientific research doesn't matter to you, the latest treatments don't matter to you. The only thing that matters to you is 40 years of running gear and your one size fits all approach here. There's no sense in discussing costs or numbers with you (although the Empower version of the nasal gel is less than $100 per month). I would hope that you, your wife and your son could collectively scrape up a few hundred dollars to approach your son's treatment in a more scientific and responsible manner, but so be it.

Call me a hypochondriac if you want (there's some more name calling, but at least you spelled it correctly) for wanting to take a scientific, measured approach to treating someone who can't get his act together as a 26-year-old grown man. If that's what a hypochondriac is, then I'll gladly take that title. I think your son needs a lot more help than TRT and that you're using his testosterone level to help him avoid responsibility for his actions and decisions (not doing him any favors there as a parent), but you have tunnel vision. When other young guys come on this board, I hope their takeaway is to talk with a qualified doctor in the field, get the appropriate tests to try and determine their problem, and be responsible in their treatment. My hope is that they won't get treatment advice from Lyle Alzado or Jose Canseco. If that's not the consensus on this forum, then it's time for me to check out.

I found even 2.5 mg of lexapro reduced motivation and eliminated anxiety in a pathological way. What I mean by that is there is a certain amount of anxiety that is necessary and productive, especially in the workplace, depending on your profession. I found myself not worrying about deadlines and not preparing as well for projects because I was unconcerned about what could go wrong. The drug can give you a false sense of security that everything will be fine, when you have not done the work to ensure that. I'm certain it would have damaged my career over the long-term.

This artificial sense of the "alrightness" of everything also affects the personal life negatively. Forward progress and growth depends on dissatisfaction with the status quo. Even small doses of SSRI can remove the sting from a stagnant life and make the comfort zone feel that much more comfortable.

One of the final straws for me was when my cat was dying and it didn't seem to bother me. I'm thinking, "shouldn't I be sad right now?", but there was just no emotion there. I realized, this is not me, this is not my personality, and I don't like it.

I actually feel like that’s what trt is doing to me. I’m very complacent. I have to push myself to do everything. I just feel so flat. it started happening on ssri with trt. Got worse when I got off the ssri. I’m not sure what to do. My only other thing I keep going back to is thyroid. I have decent labs. But low body temps, cold intolerance, trouble losing weight even in a deficit!!

 

[tareload]

I actually feel like that’s what trt is doing to me. I’m very complacent. I have to push myself to do everything. I just feel so flat. it started happening on ssri with trt. Got worse when I got off the ssri. I’m not sure what to do. My only other thing I keep going back to is thyroid. I have decent labs. But low body temps, cold intolerance, trouble losing weight even in a deficit!!

TRT does make you dumber and mentally flatter. Good point. You gotta pay to play for those muscles.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

My only other thing I keep going back to is thyroid. I have decent labs. But low body temps, cold intolerance, trouble losing weight even in a deficit!!

I'm not a fan of "optimizing" thyroid values with supplementation when they are basically normal to begin with. Besides the fact that it was a complete waste of time for me, it might shorten your life. There are many studies now suggesting that people with low-normal thyroid function live longer than those with high-normal thyroid values. Here are a few of the studies they don't mention at the BHRT conferences:

Thyroid status, disability and cognitive function, and survival in old age - PubMed

In the general population of the oldest old, elderly individuals with abnormally high levels of thyrotropin do not experience adverse effects and may have a prolonged life span. However, evidence for not treating elderly individuals can only come from a well-designed, randomized...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Familial longevity is associated with decreased thyroid function - PubMed

Our findings support the previous observation that low thyroid activity in humans constitutes a heritable phenotype that contributes to exceptional familial longevity observed in the Leiden Longevity Study.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Human longevity is characterised by high thyroid stimulating hormone secretion without altered energy metabolism - PMC

Few studies have included subjects with the propensity to reach old age in good health, with the aim to disentangle mechanisms contributing to staying healthier for longer. The hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid (HPT) axis maintains circulating levels ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Association of Thyroid Function With Life Expectancy With and Without Cardiovascular Disease: The Rotterdam Study - PMC

Are there differences in total life expectancy and life expectancy with and without cardiovascular disease within the reference range of thyroid function? This population-based cohort study found significant differences in life expectancy within the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thyroid function and life expectancy with and without noncommunicable diseases: A population-based study - PMC

Variations in thyroid function within reference ranges are associated with increased risk of diseases and death. However, the impact of thyroid function on life expectancy (LE) with and without noncommunicable diseases (NCDs) remains unknown. We ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

By chance, are your low body temps and cold intolerance most noticeable when you are trying to lose weight in a deficit? Because that is a normal physiological response to a caloric deficit.

I'm in the middle of reading The Case for Keto right now by Gary Taubes and highly recommend it to everyone, especially anyone trying to lose weight. Spoiler alert: it's all about minimizing insulin levels.

 

[tareload]

I'm not a fan of "optimizing" thyroid values with supplementation when they are basically normal to begin with. Besides the fact that it was a complete waste of time for me, it might shorten your life. There are many studies now suggesting that people with low-normal thyroid function live longer than those with high-normal thyroid values. Here are a few of them:

Thyroid status, disability and cognitive function, and survival in old age - PubMed

In the general population of the oldest old, elderly individuals with abnormally high levels of thyrotropin do not experience adverse effects and may have a prolonged life span. However, evidence for not treating elderly individuals can only come from a well-designed, randomized...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Familial longevity is associated with decreased thyroid function - PubMed

Our findings support the previous observation that low thyroid activity in humans constitutes a heritable phenotype that contributes to exceptional familial longevity observed in the Leiden Longevity Study.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Human longevity is characterised by high thyroid stimulating hormone secretion without altered energy metabolism - PMC

Few studies have included subjects with the propensity to reach old age in good health, with the aim to disentangle mechanisms contributing to staying healthier for longer. The hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid (HPT) axis maintains circulating levels ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Association of Thyroid Function With Life Expectancy With and Without Cardiovascular Disease: The Rotterdam Study - PMC

Are there differences in total life expectancy and life expectancy with and without cardiovascular disease within the reference range of thyroid function? This population-based cohort study found significant differences in life expectancy within the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thyroid function and life expectancy with and without noncommunicable diseases: A population-based study - PMC

Variations in thyroid function within reference ranges are associated with increased risk of diseases and death. However, the impact of thyroid function on life expectancy (LE) with and without noncommunicable diseases (NCDs) remains unknown. We ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

By chance, are your low body temps and cold intolerance most noticeable when you are trying to lose weight in a deficit? Because that is a normal physiological response to a caloric deficit. I'm in the middle of reading The Case for Keto right now by Gary Taubes and highly recommend it to everyone, especially anyone trying to lose weight.

Good points. Ignoring the optimization bullshit you bring up we should also call out overt hypothyroidism. There is a penalty based on my understanding of TSH at 20. Ain't good for ya. How's that for details?

But to your point if your TSH under 6-10 and fT4/fT3 in range, tread carefully with the optimization BS.

Morning temperature stuff is a joke, Wilson, etc.

Ah, that feels freeing not posting 50 articles and gory details every time I state something. I see why so many roll like that.

Just can't help it...

Thyroid Disease and the Heart

The cardiovascular signs and symptoms of thyroid disease are some of the most profound and clinically relevant findings that accompany both hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism. On the basis of the und

www.ahajournals.org

Thyroid hormones and cardiovascular disease - Nature Reviews Cardiology

Thyroid hormones have an important role in maintaining cardiovascular homeostasis, and subtle changes in thyroid hormone concentrations adversely influence the cardiovascular system. In this Review, Jabbar et al. discuss the role of thyroid hormones in the pathogenesis and management of...

www.nature.com

https://www.jacc.org/doi/abs/10.1016/j.jacc.2018.02.045

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.2010.0298

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Good points. Ignoring the optimization bullshit you bring up we should also call out overt hypothyroidism. There is a penalty based on my understanding of TSH at 20. Ain't good for ya. How's that for details?

But to your point if your TSH under 6-10 and fT4/fT3 in range, tread carefully with the optimization BS.

Morning temperature stuff is a joke, Wilson, etc.

Ah, that feels freeing not posting 50 articles and gory details every time I state something. I see why so many roll like that.

LOL. The way I look at it, as long as the evidence does exist to support your claims, you don't necessarily need to present all of it when you make the claim. This saves quite a bit of time. If people are skeptical and want to challenge you, then you can follow up with more detail.

For example, I already agree that a TSH of 20 is not healthy, so efforts to prove that would have been wasted on me.

 

[tareload]

LOL. The way I look at it, as long as the evidence does exist to support your claims, you don't necessarily need to present all of it when you make the claim. This saves quite a bit of time. If people are skeptical and want to challenge you, then you can follow up with more detail.

For example, I already agree that a TSH of 20 is not healthy, so efforts to prove that would have been wasted on me.

Above and beyond my middle name. Good time to change middle name.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Nelson, he is a tall thin guy. I am 6'1", he is 6'5". Huge feet. Yes he has a history of depression. His sleep patterns are horrible. He stays up late at night and sleeps late. We have very limited knowledge of what has gone on in his life since he left home 7 years ago. He chose to let his hair grow out and wears these silly man buns, grew a beard and then can't imagine how he can't find work. We both just keep our mouths closed about it.

sometimes we need to have difficult conversations with people in our circle. Even at the risk of giving unsolicited advice and what not.

Staying up late and viewing light 10pm-4am increases depressive moods by down regulating dopamine. I agree with Nelson in addressing the lifestyle issues first. Only he can decide.

 

[Charliebizz]

I'm not a fan of "optimizing" thyroid values with supplementation when they are basically normal to begin with. Besides the fact that it was a complete waste of time for me, it might shorten your life. There are many studies now suggesting that people with low-normal thyroid function live longer than those with high-normal thyroid values. Here are a few of the studies they don't mention at the BHRT conferences:

Thyroid status, disability and cognitive function, and survival in old age - PubMed

In the general population of the oldest old, elderly individuals with abnormally high levels of thyrotropin do not experience adverse effects and may have a prolonged life span. However, evidence for not treating elderly individuals can only come from a well-designed, randomized...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Familial longevity is associated with decreased thyroid function - PubMed

Our findings support the previous observation that low thyroid activity in humans constitutes a heritable phenotype that contributes to exceptional familial longevity observed in the Leiden Longevity Study.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Human longevity is characterised by high thyroid stimulating hormone secretion without altered energy metabolism - PMC

Few studies have included subjects with the propensity to reach old age in good health, with the aim to disentangle mechanisms contributing to staying healthier for longer. The hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid (HPT) axis maintains circulating levels ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Association of Thyroid Function With Life Expectancy With and Without Cardiovascular Disease: The Rotterdam Study - PMC

Are there differences in total life expectancy and life expectancy with and without cardiovascular disease within the reference range of thyroid function? This population-based cohort study found significant differences in life expectancy within the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thyroid function and life expectancy with and without noncommunicable diseases: A population-based study - PMC

Variations in thyroid function within reference ranges are associated with increased risk of diseases and death. However, the impact of thyroid function on life expectancy (LE) with and without noncommunicable diseases (NCDs) remains unknown. We ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

By chance, are your low body temps and cold intolerance most noticeable when you are trying to lose weight in a deficit? Because that is a normal physiological response to a caloric deficit.

I'm in the middle of reading The Case for Keto right now by Gary Taubes and highly recommend it to everyone, especially anyone trying to lose weight. Spoiler alert: it's all about minimizing insulin levels.

a well respected dr in a group I’m in just posted about labs for t3 being pretty useless because it’s a intracrine hormone Like dht and e2. Curious to hear your thoughts.

My cold I tolerance is def worse when I’m dieting. And actually diet and overtraining is what or triggered the health issues I’m having. But letting my self go and getting chubby didn’t help the cold intolerance much. I’m actually doing a modified carnivore diet as we speak. Last time I did low carb no added sugar, it drastically lowered my triglycerides and raised my low hdl. So hopefully a lot of my issues are from diet. I don’t eat horrible but maybe it’s not right for me.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

a well respected dr in a group I’m in just posted about labs for t3 being pretty useless because it’s a intracrine hormone Like dht and e2. Curious to hear your thoughts.

My cold I tolerance is def worse when I’m dieting. And actually diet and overtraining is what or triggered the health issues I’m having. But letting my self go and getting chubby didn’t help the cold intolerance much. I’m actually doing a modified carnivore diet as we speak. Last time I did low carb no added sugar, it drastically lowered my triglycerides and raised my low hdl. So hopefully a lot of my issues are from diet. I don’t eat horrible but maybe it’s not right for me.

have you tried cold showers and moved to cold dips for cold tolerance? does wonders but can be challenging.

 

[Charliebizz]

have you tried cold showers and moved to cold dips for cold tolerance? does wonders but can be challenging.

I always “go” to do it. But it’s so hard lol

 

[Charliebizz]

Good points. Ignoring the optimization bullshit you bring up we should also call out overt hypothyroidism. There is a penalty based on my understanding of TSH at 20. Ain't good for ya. How's that for details?

But to your point if your TSH under 6-10 and fT4/fT3 in range, tread carefully with the optimization BS.

Morning temperature stuff is a joke, Wilson, etc.

Ah, that feels freeing not posting 50 articles and gory details every time I state something. I see why so many roll like that.

Just can't help it...

Thyroid Disease and the Heart

The cardiovascular signs and symptoms of thyroid disease are some of the most profound and clinically relevant findings that accompany both hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism. On the basis of the und

www.ahajournals.org

Thyroid hormones and cardiovascular disease - Nature Reviews Cardiology

Thyroid hormones have an important role in maintaining cardiovascular homeostasis, and subtle changes in thyroid hormone concentrations adversely influence the cardiovascular system. In this Review, Jabbar et al. discuss the role of thyroid hormones in the pathogenesis and management of...

www.nature.com

https://www.jacc.org/doi/abs/10.1016/j.jacc.2018.02.045

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.2010.0298

I will tell you this before I screwed myself up. My temps were higher and I did feel warmer.

 

[Mastodont]

I actually feel like that’s what trt is doing to me. I’m very complacent. I have to push myself to do everything. I just feel so flat. it started happening on ssri with trt. Got worse when I got off the ssri. I’m not sure what to do. My only other thing I keep going back to is thyroid. I have decent labs. But low body temps, cold intolerance, trouble losing weight even in a deficit!!

That sounds a lot like GH deficiency too, have you tested in the morning? How is your T/E ratio? Could be low estradiol too that is keeping the fat on you.

 

[Charliebizz]

That sounds a lot like GH deficiency too, have you tested in the morning? How is your T/E ratio? Could be low estradiol too that is keeping the fat on you.

Wow. For some reason I never looked into this. I have almost every symptom. Especially my skewed lipids. Is igf-1 test enough to get answers? According to labs my e2 runs high 30s to 50.

 

[Biobro]

Wow. For some reason I never looked into this. I have almost every symptom. Especially my skewed lipids. Is igf-1 test enough to get answers? According to labs my e2 runs high 30s to 50.

Igf1 is def not enough. Igf1 can be normal, but you can still have GH deficiency.

The value of IGF1 estimation in adults with GH deficiency - PubMed

The GH/IGF1 system, like other endocrine systems, is dynamic and its activity changes with age and sexual maturation, and is influenced by body composition and other factors. A normal level of IGF1 does not exclude a diagnosis of GH deficiency (GHD) in adults, and the usefulness of IGF1 in the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

”A normal level of IGF1 does not exclude a diagnosis of GH deficiency (GHD) in adults, and the usefulness of IGF1 in the diagnosis of adult GHD has historically been confusing and contentious. The regulation of IGF1 secretion in adults is complex, and is not solely dependent on GH status with factors recognized to influence IGF1 status in patients with GHD including age, gender, exogenous estrogen therapy, prolactin status, and severity of GHD.”



check Growth hormone stimulation test.

Growth Hormone Stimulation | Labcorp

Growth hormone (GH) is secreted in a pulsatile manner and is cleared rapidly, resulting in dramatic fluctuations in GH levels.

www.labcorp.com

 

[Charliebizz]

Igf1 is def not enough. Igf1 can be normal, but you can still have GH deficiency.

The value of IGF1 estimation in adults with GH deficiency - PubMed

The GH/IGF1 system, like other endocrine systems, is dynamic and its activity changes with age and sexual maturation, and is influenced by body composition and other factors. A normal level of IGF1 does not exclude a diagnosis of GH deficiency (GHD) in adults, and the usefulness of IGF1 in the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

”A normal level of IGF1 does not exclude a diagnosis of GH deficiency (GHD) in adults, and the usefulness of IGF1 in the diagnosis of adult GHD has historically been confusing and contentious. The regulation of IGF1 secretion in adults is complex, and is not solely dependent on GH status with factors recognized to influence IGF1 status in patients with GHD including age, gender, exogenous estrogen therapy, prolactin status, and severity of GHD.”



check Growth hormone stimulation test.

Growth Hormone Stimulation | Labcorp

Growth hormone (GH) is secreted in a pulsatile manner and is cleared rapidly, resulting in dramatic fluctuations in GH levels.

www.labcorp.com

That doesn’t seem like a fun test To take lol. how are guys treating possible gh deficiency. Would it be easier to trial a peptide or actually go for the test and possibly get real gh ?