T Propionate protocol

[GreenMachineX]

Many of us have had similar problems. In my experience, I often get immediate relief on the early morning wakeups by lowering the dose. It sucks, but it is a balancing act. T versus sleep.

Been stuck awake since 3:30am the past 3 days now and it's getting to me. Been at 7 to 8mg for about a week...will try 6 to 7mg. Hoping that's all it is.

 

[Willyt]

Been stuck awake since 3:30am the past 3 days now and it's getting to me. Been at 7 to 8mg for about a week...will try 6 to 7mg. Hoping that's all it is.

Unfortunately I've been experiencing the same recently despite having lowered the dose weeks ago. It seems like reduced dose definitely helps minimize the worst of it, but something else it going on. I've been investigating the role of histamine in early AM awakenings.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Unfortunately I've been experiencing the same recently despite having lowered the dose weeks ago. It seems like reduced dose definitely helps minimize the worst of it, but something else it going on. I've been investigating the role of histamine in early AM awakenings.

Gotcha. Please post up anything helpful you find!

 

[GreenMachineX]

Unfortunately I've been experiencing the same recently despite having lowered the dose weeks ago. It seems like reduced dose definitely helps minimize the worst of it, but something else it going on. I've been investigating the role of histamine in early AM awakenings.

How much vitamin C do you take per day? For years, I took 6g and slowly went down over the years, but this past week was only getting 200mg or so, then the real sleep problems at 3am started. Last night took an extra 500mg before bed and at least was able to fall back asleep a few times. I'm going to use 500mg twice today to see if that makes a difference. Apparently vitamin c is an antihistamine.

 

[Willyt]

How much vitamin C do you take per day? For years, I took 6g and slowly went down over the years, but this past week was only getting 200mg or so, then the real sleep problems at 3am started. Last night took an extra 500mg before bed and at least was able to fall back asleep a few times. I'm going to use 500mg twice today to see if that makes a difference. Apparently vitamin c is an antihistamine.

Interesting. I generally steer clear of supplements these days but will try anything for sleep lol

 

[GreenMachineX]

Interesting. I generally steer clear of supplements these days but will try anything for sleep lol

Well, I haven't changed much else, but continued this 500mg calcium ascorbate vitamin C twice per day. And still wake up at 1am or so to pee, but fall back asleep twice on average, sleeping until 4:30am. So, about 7 hours total last night.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

following; been on week 2 of Tprop protocol. i tried various doses. from 20mg-40mg daily.
around 25mg/day i my sweet spot. at close to 40mg i feel agitated mid-day and a bit anxious. I have no idea how some can do T cycles at 500mg or so. My previous T protocol was 200mg/week. I am ultra low shbg (11 or so), and i don't feel well below 150mg. my labs at 200mg/cyp were like 500ng/total, 20/free on 3xweek protocol
I have been getting massive AM erections on T prop, where none of this on cyp.
my mood energy is better as well. libido went up, and is normal (EOD desire for sex which is the sweet spot for ne)
@tropicaldaze1950 sorry to hear about your sleep issues. I withdrew clonazepam years ago from a 1+ year use. its a rough ride but doable. i can prob write a book about it and what helps. benzos mess up sleep quality big time unfortunately long term and make you numb to just about everything
I really like prop. you can make quick adjustments and feel the different within a day.
higher peak and lower lows is probably a good idea within a 24 range, similar to a more natural cycle.
I too deal with intermittent sleep issues, and too high T somewhat is related to this. but it is only part of the picture. there is so many moving parts to this. I have been supplementing with PSerine as well which helps.
Overall I think that work/life stress is by far the biggest chunk of the sleep cake. I noticed that when on vacation I sleep like a baby, even when I ramp my T dose/caffeine and all sort of anti-sleep things. where on a stressful week the smallest variations like a cigar at night will mess it up big time.
my T has been UGL but i plan to work my provider/empower to get 'proper' T prop during my next visit.
thank you all for sharing experiences.

 

[DixieWrecked]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I like prop better as well

 

[SSHSSA74]

following; been on week 2 of Tprop protocol. i tried various doses. from 20mg-40mg daily.
around 25mg/day i my sweet spot. at close to 40mg i feel agitated mid-day and a bit anxious. I have no idea how some can do T cycles at 500mg or so. My previous T protocol was 200mg/week. I am ultra low shbg (11 or so), and i don't feel well below 150mg. my labs at 200mg/cyp were like 500ng/total, 20/free on 3xweek protocol
I have been getting massive AM erections on T prop, where none of this on cyp.
my mood energy is better as well. libido went up, and is normal (EOD desire for sex which is the sweet spot for ne)
@tropicaldaze1950 sorry to hear about your sleep issues. I withdrew clonazepam years ago from a 1+ year use. its a rough ride but doable. i can prob write a book about it and what helps. benzos mess up sleep quality big time unfortunately long term and make you numb to just about everything
I really like prop. you can make quick adjustments and feel the different within a day.
higher peak and lower lows is probably a good idea within a 24 range, similar to a more natural cycle.
I too deal with intermittent sleep issues, and too high T somewhat is related to this. but it is only part of the picture. there is so many moving parts to this. I have been supplementing with PSerine as well which helps.
Overall I think that work/life stress is by far the biggest chunk of the sleep cake. I noticed that when on vacation I sleep like a baby, even when I ramp my T dose/caffeine and all sort of anti-sleep things. where on a stressful week the smallest variations like a cigar at night will mess it up big time.
my T has been UGL but i plan to work my provider/empower to get 'proper' T prop during my next visit.
thank you all for sharing experiences.

Good info. Thanks. At what time during the day do you inject? IM or SQ? I am very low shbg too.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

Good info. Thanks. At what time during the day do you inject? IM or SQ? I am very low shbg too.

SQ early AM

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

following; been on week 2 of Tprop protocol. i tried various doses. from 20mg-40mg daily.
around 25mg/day i my sweet spot. at close to 40mg i feel agitated mid-day and a bit anxious. I have no idea how some can do T cycles at 500mg or so. My previous T protocol was 200mg/week. I am ultra low shbg (11 or so), and i don't feel well below 150mg. my labs at 200mg/cyp were like 500ng/total, 20/free on 3xweek protocol
I have been getting massive AM erections on T prop, where none of this on cyp.
my mood energy is better as well. libido went up, and is normal (EOD desire for sex which is the sweet spot for ne)
@tropicaldaze1950 sorry to hear about your sleep issues. I withdrew clonazepam years ago from a 1+ year use. its a rough ride but doable. i can prob write a book about it and what helps. benzos mess up sleep quality big time unfortunately long term and make you numb to just about everything
I really like prop. you can make quick adjustments and feel the different within a day.
higher peak and lower lows is probably a good idea within a 24 range, similar to a more natural cycle.
I too deal with intermittent sleep issues, and too high T somewhat is related to this. but it is only part of the picture. there is so many moving parts to this. I have been supplementing with PSerine as well which helps.
Overall I think that work/life stress is by far the biggest chunk of the sleep cake. I noticed that when on vacation I sleep like a baby, even when I ramp my T dose/caffeine and all sort of anti-sleep things. where on a stressful week the smallest variations like a cigar at night will mess it up big time.
my T has been UGL but i plan to work my provider/empower to get 'proper' T prop during my next visit.
thank you all for sharing experiences.

Nothing in my mental health challenge is easy. What I need and what has eluded me is a drug that will stabilize my moods as well allow me to get restorative sleep. That's the never ending challenge of bipolar illness for me and for the psychiatrists I've seen over the past 20 years.

As for test prop, everytime I've tried the rx I have from Empower, I never feel right. Either it's the grapeseed oil or benzyl alcohol or both. Right now, off of T. I'll get labs in June, then see my urologist.

Certainly glad to hear you're responding well to test prop.

 

[Gman86]

Nothing in my mental health challenge is easy. What I need and what has eluded me is a drug that will stabilize my moods as well allow me to get restorative sleep. That's the never ending challenge of bipolar illness for me and for the psychiatrists I've seen over the past 20 years.

As for test prop, everytime I've tried the rx I have from Empower, I never feel right. Either it's the grapeseed oil or benzyl alcohol or both. Right now, off of T. I'll get labs in June, then see my urologist.

Certainly glad to hear you're responding well to test prop.

Why do u think it’s ingredients that’s in empowers prop specifically that causes u to not feel right on it? Couldn't it simply be the fast in and out nature of test prop that’s causing u to not feel right on it?

 

[Willyt]

Nothing in my mental health challenge is easy. What I need and what has eluded me is a drug that will stabilize my moods as well allow me to get restorative sleep. That's the never ending challenge of bipolar illness for me and for the psychiatrists I've seen over the past 20 years.

As for test prop, everytime I've tried the rx I have from Empower, I never feel right. Either it's the grapeseed oil or benzyl alcohol or both. Right now, off of T. I'll get labs in June, then see my urologist.

Certainly glad to hear you're responding well to test prop.

From an older thread, look at differences between the two Empower formulations:
Propionate (100mg/ml): Benzyl Benzoate 15% / Benzyl Alcohol 1% as preservative
Enanthate (200mg/ml): Benzyl Alcohol 1% as preservative

The post below talks about the role of Benzyl Alcohol in initiating a burst of absorption and seems to imply that other solevents like Benzyl Benzote could do the same depending on the concentration.

Tips on how to blend propionate with enanthate (or cypionate)?

 

[Gman86]

From an older thread, look at differences between the two Empower formulations:
Propionate (100mg/ml): Benzyl Benzoate 15% / Benzyl Alcohol 1% as preservative
Enanthate (200mg/ml): Benzyl Alcohol 1% as preservative

The post below talks about the role of Benzyl Alcohol in initiating a burst of absorption and seems to imply that other solevents like Benzyl Benzote could do the same depending on the concentration.

Tips on how to blend propionate with enanthate (or cypionate)?

So their prop has benzyl Benzoate 15% and their enanthate doesn’t have any?

 

[t_spacemonkey]

I would guess that the reason many have PIP with propionate is not due to the preservatives or oils, it is mostly because the short ester releases quickly within couple H and T in itself can cause some pain. just try a water solution type injection, you will get massive PIP

 

[Willyt]

So their prop has benzyl Benzoate 15% and their enanthate doesn’t have any?

Yes, at least according to the ingredient listing. Perhaps to speed up Prop absorption? They both have the 1% Benzyl Alcohol

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

From an older thread, look at differences between the two Empower formulations:
Propionate (100mg/ml): Benzyl Benzoate 15% / Benzyl Alcohol 1% as preservative
Enanthate (200mg/ml): Benzyl Alcohol 1% as preservative

The post below talks about the role of Benzyl Alcohol in initiating a burst of absorption and seems to imply that other solevents like Benzyl Benzote could do the same depending on the concentration.

Tips on how to blend propionate with enanthate (or cypionate)?

Perhaps the benzyl benzoate is a problem for me, too. If I resume T it will be with rx Test E.

 

[Gman86]

Is Benzyl benzoate really an insect repellant? Doesn’t sound like the most ideal compound to have in something we’re injecting into our bodies

 

[Willyt]

Is Benzyl benzoate really an insect repellant? Doesn’t sound like the most ideal compound to have in something we’re injecting into our bodies

Yikes. I see that it also "has vasodilating and spasmolytic effects and is present in many asthma and whooping cough drugs."

 

[Gman86]

im trying to figure out if the UGL source I’m using for primo has more or less amounts of Benzyl benzoate and Benzyl alcohol than what Empower uses in their test prop. Here’s the amounts that the UGL source uses. Can anyone tell me if Empower is using more or less of these preservatives than this UGL source? For anyone that missed the comment showing how much empower uses in their test prop, here’s how much they use of each preservative.
Empower test Propionate (100mg/ml): Benzyl Benzoate 15% / Benzyl Alcohol 1%