Switch from injectable to topical

[sh1973]

Gman hopefully you’re keeping a tab on hematocrit and hemoglobin while running levels like that. You’re on the highest dose I’ve ever seen with topicals. I’d be curious to see where your DHT sits.

 

[ncsugrad]

Those doses aren’t that crazy. I know people who use twice that. I use 150mg/day via scrotal cream and my HCT hasn’t moved at all since starting. I have very high shbg so that gets me to about 39 free T. Haven’t tested dht since doing this but I imagine it isn’t low

 

[sh1973]

Not doubting what you’re saying but I’m saying it’s the highest I’ve seen and I’ve been on trt a decade and on these forums 11-12 years. I have high shbg in the 70s and androgel will put my levels well over a 1000ng and that’s only 81mg. With cypionate I only did 60-80mg per week to feel fairly well.

 

[ncsugrad]

Not doubting what you’re saying but I’m saying it’s the highest I’ve seen and I’ve been on trt a decade and on these forums 11-12 years. I have high shbg in the 70s and androgel will put my levels well over a 1000ng and that’s only 81mg. With cypionate I only did 60-80mg per week to feel fairly well.

That is fairly unusual IMO. Most at least need 100mg/week, but that is a good problem to have. It’s much easier to get a prescription than it is for the guys that are on the opposite end and legit need 200mg+ a week

 

[Gman86]

Ya, I’d have to agree. 300mg/ day isn’t crazy high. It is around the top end for dosing though. But again, 300mg/ day seems to be around the top end for guys doing all of it on the scrotum. I’m only doing half that on my scrotum. So it’s a huge difference dosing wise. Here’s a few examples of what the guys on the TOT roundtable are running as far as doses and numbers on the creams, without any issues. And my HCT was 49.3 in August. I’m not too worried about HCT though. Even when my total was 1855 my HCT was around like 53-54. Which doesn’t concern me. I’d only be concerned if it went around 56 or higher. And even that’s debatable. My platelets and WBC count are all fine. Platelets are on the low side actually. So I’m not worried about increased blood viscosity, especially considering my HCT is most likely low 50’s atm.


Keith Nichols 3-24-19
Transcrodal cream
Total - 1600-1700
Free- 40-50
e2 - 79.6
HCT - 54.7
No ai

Lifting dermatologist 3-24-19
Transscrodal cream 3 clicks 2x/ day (50mg each click, 150mg twice per day, 300mg total per day)
Total - 1850
Free - 61
E2 - 68
No ai


Anthony
Transcrodal cream 2-3 clicks 2x/ day
Total - 1800
Free- 48
E2 - 66
No ai

Dr.Scott Howell
Started on 150mg 2x/day scrotal cream by Keith Nichols

 

[Gman86]

And ya, I’m very curious to see where my DHT is at. I’m doing my best to use the minimum amount of cream on my scrotum to make sure DHT doesn’t go insanely high. I’m vain as fck so I don’t want anything bad happening to my hair lol

 

[sh1973]

You have to do whatever you think is right for you. But anyone telling you hematocrit in the mid 50s is ok is a fool. Dr Crisler used to advocate that crap as well and nearly died on his front porch from a massive heart attack. That guy had the body of a 20yo in his 60s. My friend if you want to base your health off a steroid abusing dermatologist and his friends on YouTube then knock yourself out. I did a couple cycles in my early 20s when I was young and stupid and I can assure you that you don’t get the size of the lifting dermatologist without stacking compounds at high doses. I want to feel good and live a long life. I could care less about building muscle and all that but to each his own.

 

[sh1973]

As far as the hair mine was gone in 1.5 years from topical gel and had no thinning prior to that

 

[Gman86]

You have to do whatever you think is right for you. But anyone telling you hematocrit in the mid 50s is ok is a fool. Dr Crisler used to advocate that crap as well and nearly died on his front porch from a massive heart attack. That guy had the body of a 20yo in his 60s. My friend if you want to base your health off a steroid abusing dermatologist and his friends on YouTube then knock yourself out. I did a couple cycles in my early 20s when I was young and stupid and I can assure you that you don’t get the size of the lifting dermatologist without stacking compounds at high doses. I want to feel good and live a long life. I could care less about building muscle and all that but to each his own.

Ya you’re right. Definitely better to err on the side of caution with anything cardiovascular related. I’ve been in the healthcare field for around 12 years, and have done quite a bit of research on the topic. Blood viscosity is dependent on HCT, but it also depends a lot on platelets and WBC’s. It’s all about balance. Having HCT in the low 50’s is not only safe, but actually healthy, as long as other markers look good. I feel I’m at no risk even if HCT gets up around 54-55. Higher than that I’m not really comfortable with. I definitely get what you’re saying though. 100% better to play it safe when it comes to the heart and your cardiovascular system.

 

[Gman86]

As far as the hair mine was gone in 1.5 years from topical gel and had no thinning prior to that

oh Jesus, way to make me feel better lol. Jk. And that was on the gels which don’t even sky rocket DHT.

 

[sh1973]

Yeah again if you’re comfortable with it being that high that’s all that matters. Thick blood is taxing on the circulatory system in many regards including the artery and blood vessel walls. Dr Saya posted something about that a while back and I’ve asked a few other physicians over the years that state the same.

 

[sh1973]

To be honest idk what my DHT was on androgel but did check it a few times on injectable and was close to the high end.

 

[Gman86]

To be honest idk what my DHT was on androgel but did check it a few times on injectable and was close to the high end.

Ya mine was always at the high end or a little over while on injections. No hair issues yet, that I’m aware of, but it’s still early. I’ll be super bummed though if it does start effecting my hair

 

[sh1973]

Just shave it if it starts thinning. Best thing I ever did lol

 

[ncsugrad]

Ya, I’d have to agree. 300mg/ day isn’t crazy high. It is around the top end for dosing though. But again, 300mg/ day seems to be around the top end for guys doing all of it on the scrotum. I’m only doing half that on my scrotum. So it’s a huge difference dosing wise. Here’s a few examples of what the guys on the TOT roundtable are running as far as doses and numbers on the creams, without any issues. And my HCT was 49.3 in August. I’m not too worried about HCT though. Even when my total was 1855 my HCT was around like 53-54. Which doesn’t concern me. I’d only be concerned if it went around 56 or higher. And even that’s debatable. My platelets and WBC count are all fine. Platelets are on the low side actually. So I’m not worried about increased blood viscosity, especially considering my HCT is most likely low 50’s atm.


Keith Nichols 3-24-19
Transcrodal cream
Total - 1600-1700
Free- 40-50
e2 - 79.6
HCT - 54.7
No ai

Lifting dermatologist 3-24-19
Transscrodal cream 3 clicks 2x/ day (50mg each click, 150mg twice per day, 300mg total per day)
Total - 1850
Free - 61
E2 - 68
No ai


Anthony
Transcrodal cream 2-3 clicks 2x/ day
Total - 1800
Free- 48
E2 - 66
No ai

Dr.Scott Howell
Started on 150mg 2x/day scrotal cream by Keith Nichols

It's very interesting seeing all the different outcomes at different doses. It also kind of confirms I'm "fairly" sensitive to T. Even with half the doses most of these guys were taking I have somewhat comparable levels to some of them (albeit it I'm still lower than them..).

150mg/day and I'm at 1500 TT, 39 FT, 73 E2. My HCG is on the low end though, 44.1.

 

[Gman86]

Just shave it if it starts thinning. Best thing I ever did lol

Haha I know I wish I could. I used to shave my hair pretty low. Unfortunately look much better with a little longer hair on top. Like I said, I’m a vain mothrfckr haha.

 

[ncsugrad]

Just shave it if it starts thinning. Best thing I ever did lol

I have to say... I was on finasteride for years, which I still think is what started this whole debacle for me. My SHBG is sky high (150+) and I've talked to several guys that used to take fin that had the same thing happen.

Anyways.. my point is, I'd GLADLY shave my head today to feel normal. And I have awesome hair now, haha. It isn't worth it though. I have noticed a decent increase in shedding since switching to cream but it is what it is.. I'm just going to go with it for now.

 

[Gman86]

It's very interesting seeing all the different outcomes at different doses. It also kind of confirms I'm "fairly" sensitive to T. Even with half the doses most of these guys were taking I have somewhat comparable levels to some of them (albeit it I'm still lower than them..).

150mg/day and I'm at 1500 TT, 39 FT, 73 E2. My HCG is on the low end though, 44.1.

Holy crap! Nice numbers. Where’s your cream from, and where you applying it all? I assume the scrotum?

Are you applying it once or twice per day? And how long after your last application did you get those labs done?

 

[sh1973]

I totally agree NCU. That’s what I thought at the time, and my hair took the backseat to feeling good and granted for the most part I have felt OK on TRT but my biggest hurdle has been consistency and very low libido on TRT no matter what I’ve used or what dose. I did seem to feel the best in the beginning on Andro gel but due to a lapse in insurance coverage couldn’t afford it. I’m hoping to replicate that feeling again since it’s covered now. The only way I could ever feel good on injectable was dosing once weekly between 60 and 80 mg per week. Anything above or below that was atrocious.

 

[ncsugrad]

Holy crap! Nice numbers. Where’s your cream from, and where you applying it all? I assume the scrotum?

Are you applying it once or twice per day? And how long after your last application did you get those labs done?

I get it from Empower (through Defy)

I do scrotal only right now.. 100mg in the morning and 50mg at night. Labs were about 4-5 hours after the morning application, so that should have been pretty much my peak

I felt awesome about 6-7 weeks in, then after talking with the Doc he recommended I add a low dose of HCG since we are trying for kids next year (just to keep things "going" until then). Once I added that I felt worse and worse.. after 2 weeks of it I stopped using it and I'm not sure what I'm going to do come baby making time. This is the second time I've tried HCG and it hasn't gone well either time.

Anyways. Yeah, so now I'm a few weeks past that and just hoping to get back to where I was before trying HCG again. I seem to take up to 7 weeks of very consistent application before I get the libido (more so the sensitivity) benefits

I totally agree NCU. That’s what I thought at the time, and my hair took the backseat to feeling good and granted for the most part I have felt OK on TRT but my biggest hurdle has been consistency and very low libido on TRT no matter what I’ve used or what dose. I did seem to feel the best in the beginning on Andro gel but due to a lapse in insurance coverage couldn’t afford it. I’m hoping to replicate that feeling again since it’s covered now. The only way I could ever feel good on injectable was dosing once weekly between 60 and 80 mg per week. Anything above or below that was atrocious.

Hopefully you get it figured out. Did you try these different protocols for long periods of time consistently or were you changing things often?