Surviving Propecia

[Giovanni73]

That doesn't surprise me, but you have a horse in this race so there is a little bias here don't you think? Not ALL the documented cases can be false and when one understands what this drug targets and disables, it's not that much of a stretch. Then again I'm just an open minded silly man.

It does not block all your DHT... And if you are on TRT you HAVE a hell of a lot of DHT. So, basically finasteride binds to the 5AR enzyme, but once you stop, that enzyme is then free to bind... how would that be permanent? Hey, if I feel side affects, I simply stop. Done deal. I believe what happens is men get on Propecia, then after many years they stop, only to find out they have Low T, so their first response is to blame Propecia, when these men would probably need TRT anyway. Just my thoughts, but if your d*ck dies from one pill, man your d*ck was doomed from jump street.

 

[Systemlord]

It does not block all your DHT... And if you are on TRT you HAVE a hell of a lot of DHT. So, basically finasteride binds to the 5AR enzyme, but once you stop, that enzyme is then free to bind... how would that be permanent? Hey, if I feel side affects, I simply stop. Done deal. I believe what happens is men get on Propecia, then after many years they stop, only to find out they have Low T, so their first response is to blame Propecia, when these men would probably need TRT anyway. Just my thoughts, but if your d*ck dies from one pill, man your d*ck was doomed from jump street.

Your speaking in absolutes, everyone has a different biology so your rules don't apply. Dr Crisler knows of a case where a man took arimidex and never recovered his E2 levels as he wipeout enzyme completely. Our feeble minds are unable to account for everything, but when a guy swallows Propecia and feels like death and comes out the other end F*cked up who was in perfect health, I believe in cause and effect. Deep down inside you know it, it's why you stop taking it.

It's no different than any other drug, they all have side effects, big surprise.

 

[Giovanni73]

Your speaking in absolutes, everyone has a different biology so your rules don't apply. Dr Crisler knows of a case where a man took arimidex and never recovered his E2 levels as he wipeout enzyme completely. Our feeble minds are unable to account for everything, but when a guy swallows Propecia and feels like death and comes out the other end F*cked up who was in perfect health, I believe in cause and effect. Deep down inside you know it, it's why you stop taking it.

It's no different than any other drug, they all have side effects, big surprise.

Well, I will stick with it. If I have sides. I will quit.

 

[Systemlord]

Well, I will stick with it. If I have sides. I will quit.

By then it might already be too late, you do know many men who have quit have retained those symptoms years after stopping the drug?

 

[Giovanni73]

By then it might already be too late, you do know many men who have quit have retained those symptoms years after stopping the drug?

Please come on there's hundreds of millions of men on that and do fine stop with the overdramatics

 

[lowe2sucks]

alll you need to know giovanni is taking propecia is like playing with fire.. it might not burn you but you are sitting way to close and there is a chance you may get burned
take me for example.. i took too much arimidex (which is also enzyme inhibiotr as propecia is) but blocks different enzyme but they are similar because testosterone converts to both dht and estradiol wiht help of those enzymes..
if I rate my health, physical and mental wellbeing before i took it i would rate 100%.. after i took it first year was like 5% 2nd year 15-20% 3year maybe 35% and went back to 5% after i took dhea.. there were moments were i was suicidal because of how badly i felt i couldnt even function.. and you tell me we are kidding with you when in reality a man who knows what hes talking about warns you about possible dangers because he has empathy for folks that might deal with same shit

 

[Giovanni73]

alll you need to know giovanni is taking propecia is like playing with fire.. it might not burn you but you are sitting way to close and there is a chance you may get burned
take me for example.. i took too much arimidex (which is also enzyme inhibiotr as propecia is) but blocks different enzyme but they are similar because testosterone converts to both dht and estradiol wiht help of those enzymes..
if I rate my health, physical and mental wellbeing before i took it i would rate 100%.. after i took it first year was like 5% 2nd year 15-20% 3year maybe 35% and went back to 5% after i took dhea.. there were moments were i was suicidal because of how badly i felt i couldnt even function.. and you tell me we are kidding with you when in reality a man who knows what hes talking about warns you about possible dangers because he has empathy for folks that might deal with same shit

I appreciate the concern. I will definitely take it into consideration. My doctor told me to go on propecia because it was a smart choice with TRT... Because the acceseive DHT can raise PSA levels.

 

[lowe2sucks]

or you can go low and slow and check how your PSA is doing every 6 months if its raising too much cut back on T dose or went off trt for a while and not having to play russian roulette with propecia.. your doc precribed you drug that life for some men not only 1 person or 10 guys the number is much higher. even if its 5% or 10% its still a chance. if bad shit will happen to you your doc will not be able to fix it and will leave you on your own because pfs is not curable it may dissapear with time but there is no medicine or quick fix for it
having dht on higher side is ok with most folks and guys who use trt in form of shots usually dont have too high dht levels and want to use a bit of topical testosterone on top of that to get their dht to top of the range.. not everybody on T shots have high dht
dht is responsible for many subjective feelings from having high levels of T just like estradiol is.. better to have little too high then block it but at same time if you don't use too high dose dht will stay at good level not deficient and definitely not too high if you are on shots.
by the way folks with pfs say trt improves their condition for a short period of time but after that makes them worse so its a bad combo t + propecia probably even worse then only propecia

 

[Giovanni73]

or you can go low and slow and check how your PSA is doing every 6 months if its raising too much cut back on T dose or went off trt for a while and not having to play russian roulette with propecia.. your doc precribed you drug that life for some men not only 1 person or 10 guys the number is much higher. even if its 5% or 10% its still a chance. if bad shit will happen to you your doc will not be able to fix it and will leave you on your own because pfs is not curable it may dissapear with time but there is no medicine or quick fix for it
having dht on higher side is ok with most folks and guys who use trt in form of shots usually dont have too high dht levels and want to use a bit of topical testosterone on top of that to get their dht to top of the range.. not everybody on T shots have high dht
dht is responsible for many subjective feelings from having high levels of T just like estradiol is.. better to have little too high then block it but at same time if you don't use too high dose dht will stay at good level not deficient and definitely not too high if you are on shots.
by the way folks with pfs say trt improves their condition for a short period of time but after that makes them worse so its a bad combo t + propecia probably even worse then only propecia

Interesting. So TRT does not raise DHT that high? How long have you been on TRT and what is your protocol?

 

[lowe2sucks]

i've been on trt 4.5 years stopped about 2 months ago
gels and creams raise dht a lot especially if you apply them to scrotum but shots even at 200mg sometimes only bring up dht to the middle thats why good trt doctors add little bit of test gel or cream to protocol applied to scrotum to bring up dht levels to upper range

 

[Giovanni73]

i've been on trt 4.5 years stopped about 2 months ago
gels and creams raise dht a lot especially if you apply them to scrotum but shots even at 200mg sometimes only bring up dht to the middle thats why good trt doctors add little bit of test gel or cream to protocol applied to scrotum to bring up dht levels to upper range

Did your PSA slightly go up at all? I have been on TRT for almost 2 months. What about HCG?

 

[lowe2sucks]

3.3.17 on 40mg cypionate twice weekly and 15mg (1click) of dhea cream my psa was 2.5 range up to 4.0
8.22.17 i was 3-4 weeks of testosterone my psa was 1.8 my total t was in 500s I think it was my natty test because 3-4 should be enough for testosterone to leave the body.. sucks that i didnt include lh in that labwork

 

[Giovanni73]

3.3.17 on 40mg cypionate twice weekly and 15mg (1click) of dhea cream my psa was 2.5 range up to 4.0
8.22.17 i was 3-4 weeks of testosterone my psa was 1.8 my total t was in 500s I think it was my natty test because 3-4 should be enough for testosterone to leave the body.. sucks that i didnt include lh in that labwork

Wow, pretty low dose. Where does that put your Total T? I was on 100 mgs a week and after 6 weeks my total T was 367 (lower than my pre trt levels) So, I am now on 60 (3 times a week) Mon/Wed/Fri...
My SHBG is 20, while in range, still low, so I seem to metabolize Testosterone really fast. What was your SHBG?

 

[lowe2sucks]

total t in 700s which im totally ok with its a good number for guy nowadays.free t was 19.2 range 9.3-26.5 shbg was 33.4
dr mark gordon said on podcast that high doses (he meant either 100+ or 120+ cyp weekly) supress hpta too much and eventually lead to sexual dysfunction so thats why during my last year on trt i stayed on 80mg weekly total

 

[Giovanni73]

total t in 700s which im totally ok with its a good number for guy nowadays.free t was 19.2 range 9.3-26.5 shbg was 33.4
dr mark gordon said on podcast that high doses (he meant either 100+ or 120+ cyp weekly) supress hpta too much and eventually lead to sexual dysfunction so thats why during my last year on trt i stayed on 80mg weekly total

Good numbers... I feel great on 180... my second week, but I might go down in dose. 180 has me feeling really jacked. I'm hitting weights like a nut, but -- who wants to feel jacked all the time? Not me, so I will see what my labs say. I might lower it next week. I actually feel like I could easily do 60 twice a week and feel fine.

Are you secondary or primary?

 

[Vitamin_C]

i've been on trt 4.5 years stopped about 2 months ago
gels and creams raise dht a lot especially if you apply them to scrotum but shots even at 200mg sometimes only bring up dht to the middle thats why good trt doctors add little bit of test gel or cream to protocol applied to scrotum to bring up dht levels to upper range

So you’re off TRT or you’re doing 80mg/week?

 

[nurselyfe]

It’s also interesting the BPH guys take 5mg/day and report less sexual symptoms than the 20 something year old MPB guys at 1mg/day.

.25 almost blocks just as much conversion as 1mg and there's no difference in how much 1mg and 5mg block. will provide literature if requested

 

[nurselyfe]

So you’re off TRT or you’re doing 80mg/week?

he is off TRT.

 

[Vitamin_C]

I'd like to know how long he was on TRT, what was his protocol to get off, what his current testosterone levels are, and how does he feel compared to being off TRT as to on.

 

[lowe2sucks]

4.5 years. i went off cold turkey. i will try to get labs done next week total,free t, e2, lh,fsh. those 2 months were pure hell but i started to have few good days here and there. most important thing for me is to be patient