Supraphysiologic testosterone (350 mg weekly)

[Polynaeu]

Do you consider yourself respectful? I’ve been speaking politely on this platform, but all I get from you is condescension and a tone like you know everything.

Looking better and more muscular has a huge impact on psychology, and studies show that using 350 mg of testosterone for 12 weeks doesn’t cause significant harm. The ones who get hurt are usually those who use it continuously.

Of course, there’s still a risk — but even my psychiatrist told me that stress does more damage to my brain than benzodiazepines.

You’re treating me like I’m crazy. If testosterone starts to affect my emotions in a negative way, I’ll simply stop using it — it’s not that complicated. It’s not like I’m using trenbolone, right? And actually, the last time I used testosterone, I felt calmer.

Even Nelson Vergel talks about supraphysiologic doses of testosterone or other anabolic steroids, so I think it's completely reasonable for me to ask this kind of question on the forum.

Nelson Vergel used anabolics to survive, and I’m using it for a short time to boost my self esteem — and again, studies show the risks are minimal.

 

[SS1LE]

I’ve heard some reports that people feel better on DHT blockers. I wonder how long that will last.

I guess it really depends on the DHT levels, my DHT is 3x the reference range on 14mg daily. I don't feel like superman with DHT that high. Im trying natural stuff to lower it, not Pharma. I assume if you are low on E2, this could be why some feel better lower DHT, as the high DHT is further lower and displacing the E2.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Do you consider yourself respectful? I’ve been speaking politely on this platform, but all I get from you is condescension and a tone like you know everything.

Everyone here is exhibiting remarkable restraint. No one knows everything, but the people responding know more than you. You must understand this on some level, or you wouldn't have come here to ask questions.

Looking better and more muscular has a huge impact on psychology, and studies show that using 350 mg of testosterone for 12 weeks doesn’t cause significant harm. The ones who get hurt are usually those who use it continuously.

A big chunk of your gains will be temporary and evaporate when you stop the 350 mg of testosterone. Have you considered the impact of becoming gradually smaller and weaker on your psychology? It's going to happen - how beneficial will that be, at the same time that you are in withdrawal from the dopamine high of the cycle?

You wanted an answer to a narrowly defined question: is one cycle of 350 mg test for 12 weeks likely to do serious damage (no, probably not). What you don't like is that you are getting advice on a broader question that you didn't ask: am I pursuing a sensible strategy to deal with my depression, anxiety, and low libido (no, you are not).

Of course, there’s still a risk — but even my psychiatrist told me that stress does more damage to my brain than benzodiazepines.

There's a naivety here that is concerning to the experienced - you seem to suggest that you believe your psychiatrist's assessment of benzodiazepines as relatively safe and harmless, which they are most certainly not. Dixiewrecked put it well, that you are not respecting the heavy-hitting drugs you are playing with. There is recklessness where there should be caution, and with the pharmaceutical drugs, a blind trust in the reassurances of medical providers where there should be skepticism. How much research have you done on the long-term effects of these medications? How many experiences of long-term users have you read about?

Nelson Vergel used anabolics to survive, and I’m using it for a short time to boost my self esteem

I would guess Nelson finds this comparison pretty offensive, as these applications of anabolics are worlds apart in their necessity and rationality.

You’re treating me like I’m crazy.

We are being kind, to take the time to try to help you, an Internet stranger, make better decisions for your long-term well-being. We are busy people with many important things to do. The correct response from you would be gratitude, whether you like what you are hearing or not.

 

[Polynaeu]

Everyone here is exhibiting remarkable restraint. No one knows everything, but the people responding know more than you. You must understand this on some level, or you wouldn't have come here to ask questions.

A big chunk of your gains will be temporary and evaporate when you stop the 350 mg of testosterone. Have you considered the impact of becoming gradually smaller and weaker on your psychology? It's going to happen - how beneficial will that be, at the same time that you are in withdrawal from the dopamine high of the cycle?

You wanted an answer to a narrowly defined question: is one cycle of 350 mg test for 12 weeks likely to do serious damage (no, probably not). What you don't like is that you are getting advice on a broader question that you didn't ask: am I pursuing a sensible strategy to deal with my depression, anxiety, and low libido (no, you are not).


There's a naivety here that is concerning to the experienced - you seem to suggest that you believe your psychiatrist's assessment of benzodiazepines as relatively safe and harmless, which they are most certainly not. Dixiewrecked put it well, that you are not respecting the heavy-hitting drugs you are playing with. There is recklessness where there should be caution, and with the pharmaceutical drugs, a blind trust in the reassurances of medical providers where there should be skepticism. How much research have you done on the long-term effects of these medications? How many experiences of long-term users have you read about?


I would guess Nelson finds this comparison pretty offensive, as these applications of anabolics are worlds apart in their necessity and rationality.


We are being kind, to take the time to try to help you, an Internet stranger, make better decisions for your long-term well-being. We are busy people with many important things to do. The correct response from you would be gratitude, whether you like what you are hearing or not.

I tried to be honest with myself, and to be honest, I miss that dopamine high. I think the feeling that came with that heightened libido became kind of addictive.

For now, I've given up on my plan. Honestly, if testosterone had an effect within a day or two, I’d probably give it another shot — since natural production doesn’t get suppressed that quickly. But I guess that kind of option just doesn’t exist. Even testosterone gels don’t seem to boost libido immediately.

 

[Phil Goodman]

I tried to be honest with myself, and to be honest, I miss that dopamine high. I think the feeling that came with that heightened libido became kind of addictive.

For now, I've given up on my plan. Honestly, if testosterone had an effect within a day or two, I’d probably give it another shot — since natural production doesn’t get suppressed that quickly. But I guess that kind of option just doesn’t exist. Even testosterone gels don’t seem to boost libido immediately.

A cream would be your best bet on that front, as you could use it to dramatically increase levels quickly and possibly be more likely to result in the boost you’re looking for. However, you said yourself that in the past that boost was addictive, so it’s quite possible you’d just drift to daily application anyway.

Have you ever considered dropping the Avodart? Given your age that seems to be the most reasonable place to start. If you refuse to do that, then perhaps a more reasonable dose of trt would be beneficial (though considering your age you may want to try other avenues first). Posters here agree that your dose would help your problems short term, but at the end of your 12 week run you’d end up worse off. First of all, muscle gains in 12 weeks aren’t going to be all that great. Sure there will be improvements to physique and strength, but nothing crazy in that time frame. It would also help with self-esteem, confidence, well-being and libido. The problem is…at the end of your run your run all of those would be worse off due to plummeting levels. So imagine being in a worse state than you are now while also watching your hard earned gains quickly melt away. Not a good scenario to be in.

Posters here aren’t saying your approach wouldn’t work in the small time frame you’re looking for, we’re saying(or at least I’m saying…don’t want to speak for others but I imagine at least a few will agree) that what you gain from your cycle won’t be worth what you go through in the long run. It also doesn’t fix the root of the problem in any meaningful way.

You should decide what your priorities are, develop a protocol around that, and be willing to accept the costs that go along with your choices. If you’re ok feeling less than ideal because you want to save your hair then fine, but just understand that may very well be what happening. If you’re willing to punish yourself with months of feeling like crap for a great 12 week run then fine, but know what you’re getting into before hand. If you prioritize sustainability and prolonged benefits on all those fronts, then develop a plan more likely to put you on that path. Lots of people here have expressed that your initially proposed plan doesn’t seem worth it to them(with countless years of experience between us). But again, it’s ultimately up to you. If you’d like our input on other options or ideas you have then just let us know what your priorities are.

 

[Polynaeu]

A cream would be your best bet on that front, as you could use it to dramatically increase levels quickly and possibly be more likely to result in the boost you’re looking for. However, you said yourself that in the past that boost was addictive, so it’s quite possible you’d just drift to daily application anyway.

Have you ever considered dropping the Avodart? Given your age that seems to be the most reasonable place to start. If you refuse to do that, then perhaps a more reasonable dose of trt would be beneficial (though considering your age you may want to try other avenues first). Posters here agree that your dose would help your problems short term, but at the end of your 12 week run you’d end up worse off. First of all, muscle gains in 12 weeks aren’t going to be all that great. Sure there will be improvements to physique and strength, but nothing crazy in that time frame. It would also help with self-esteem, confidence, well-being and libido. The problem is…at the end of your run your run all of those would be worse off due to plummeting levels. So imagine being in a worse state than you are now while also watching your hard earned gains quickly melt away. Not a good scenario to be in.

Posters here aren’t saying your approach wouldn’t work in the small time frame you’re looking for, we’re saying(or at least I’m saying…don’t want to speak for others but I imagine at least a few will agree) that what you gain from your cycle won’t be worth what you go through in the long run. It also doesn’t fix the root of the problem in any meaningful way.

You should decide what your priorities are, develop a protocol around that, and be willing to accept the costs that go along with your choices. If you’re ok feeling less than ideal because you want to save your hair then fine, but just understand that may very well be what happening. If you’re willing to punish yourself with months of feeling like crap for a great 12 week run then fine, but know what you’re getting into before hand. If you prioritize sustainability and prolonged benefits on all those fronts, then develop a plan more likely to put you on that path. Lots of people here have expressed that your initially proposed plan doesn’t seem worth it to them(with countless years of experience between us). But again, it’s ultimately up to you. If you’d like our input on other options or ideas you have then just let us know what your priorities are.

I used testosterone gel for 6 days at 5 times the usual daily dose. I noticed better muscle tone and a good pump when lifting, but I didn’t really feel any different overall.

As for Avodart, it doesn’t mess with libido — in fact, it actually helps. But I’ve decided to switch to topical minoxidil and add microneedling instead.

 

[Phil Goodman]

I used testosterone gel for 6 days at 5 times the usual daily dose. I noticed better muscle tone and a good pump when lifting, but I didn’t really feel any different overall.

As for Avodart, it doesn’t mess with libido — in fact, it actually helps. But I’ve decided to switch to topical minoxidil and add microneedling instead.

Weird protocol…5x dosage of gel for 6 days then stopping. What exactly was the thought process behind that? Also, you aren’t going to see any significant increase in muscle tone in a week. Likewise, I don’t see how that would improve your pump other than perhaps some increased water retention.


If it helps your libido then why is your libido still so bad?

 

[Seagal]

You could try dhea for mood and energy

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[FunkOdyssey]

You could try dhea for mood and energy

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He actually came here for DHEA quotes. @Guided_by_Voices is featured in the video.

It's a curious thing to watch the evolution of TRT guru beliefs over time and how they drift to opposite sides of the same issue. Dave Lee for example was a huge proponent of supplementation with pregnenolone and DHEA some years ago, and as he has become more experienced, has gradually soured on them. The latest position I've seen from Dave is that most men should not supplement with pregnenolone or DHEA, because in the average man they're causing more problems than benefit.

 

[Seagal]

He actually came here for DHEA quotes. @Guided_by_Voices is featured in the video.

It's a curious thing to watch the evolution of TRT guru beliefs over time and how they drift to opposite sides of the same issue. Dave Lee for example was a huge proponent of supplementation with pregnenolone and DHEA some years ago, and as he has become more experienced, has gradually soured on them. The latest position I've seen from Dave is that most men should not supplement with pregnenolone or DHEA, because in the average man they're causing more problems than benefit.

I recall he said to measure first and check if they are deficient and look for possible symptoms. He emphasized that there is an inverse U shaped dose-response. T and dhea are more likely out of balance while on trt. In the average man there is probably no need for dhea nor trt. The problem is always that people just blindly use it (at too high dosages) assuming more is better.

I like the video because of the references to excelmale members.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I recall he said to measure first and check if they are deficient and look for possible symptoms. He emphasized that there is an inverse U shaped dose-response. T and dhea are more likely out of balance while on trt. In the average man there is probably no need for dhea nor trt. The problem is always that people just blindly use it (at too high dosages) assuming more is better.

Dave said benefits arise only in a deficiency state, which again runs contrary to the Cortex video above, where he says serum levels don't predict who will benefit. Dave's overall position though is that DHEA supplementation, like pregnenolone, is rarely successful or well tolerated. From Dave Lee's Beyond TRT book (released Dec 2023):

From looking at the benefits of DHEA, it almost seems crazy for someone NOT to supplement with it. So why shouldn’t you? It’s very simple, and shares the commonality with pregnenolone. It’s just not tolerated. It just doesn’t work out. If it did, taking DHEA would be as common as taking a multivitamin or fish oil. There’s a reason why most who try DHEA aren’t still taking it... DHEA produces these benefits, and overall systemic improvements in health and wellbeing when a deficiency is corrected. When DHEA is supplemented in a body which is already making healthy levels of DHEA it creates a supraphysiologic DHEA environment. This causes powerful, systemic side effects and leads to discontinuation.

 

[Seagal]

Dave said benefits arise only in a deficiency state, which again runs contrary to the Cortex video above, where he says serum levels don't predict who will benefit. Dave's overall position though is that DHEA supplementation, like pregnenolone, is rarely successful or well tolerated. From Dave Lee's Beyond TRT book (released Dec 2023):

Forget about the cortex dude

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