Sleep apnea/insomnia on TRT can time fix it? advice needed

[wondering]

we have many posts deleted since yesterday for some reason. I did my lab test seems like low ferritin causing all this.

recent lab measured the same day of arimidix+HCG, supplement taking morning and the test afternoon:

ferritin: 12 ng/mL (range26-388) LOW
albumin: 4 g/dl range (3.5-5.2)
E: 14.2
progesterone: 0.16 nmol/L range (0.16-0470
prolactin: 275 mU/L range (98-456)
SHBG:24.4 nmol/L
Total T: 24.09 nmol/ L

TruT with my Real albumin number : 26.52 ng/dl

That Ferritin is a an issue.

 

[M.J]

That Ferritin is a an issue.

I feel it was depleted due to testosterone injections, I admit I have been doing weekly blood test for like 3 month now, also donated one time, if I measure all those blood samples taken I may have actually donated twice during three month.

I am supplementing now with iron, this is. Ever ending story but at least I found out the issue.

Have u use iron before ? And advices ?

 

[Systemlord]

ferritin: 12 ng/mL (range26-388) LOW

There is probably the reason for your sleep troubles, I'm currently still recovering from long term iron deficiency and noticed iron deficient symptoms were worse at night time.

My standard iron dosing is lower than most, I need probably 2-3x per week dosing of 15mg bis-glycinate. I can't handle iron anywhere close to 100.

 

[M.J]

There is probably the reason for your sleep troubles, I'm currently still recovering from long term iron deficiency and noticed iron deficient symptoms were worse at night time.

My standard iron dosing is lower than most, I need probably 2-3x per week dosing of 15mg bis-glycinate. I can't handle iron anywhere close to 100.

I taking 65mg iron “ferrous sulfate” vitamin C, L-lysin and b12. U think that’s good enough.

Damm after managing my T and E now chasing iron and ferritin, not doing tests anymore or donating for 3 month.

 

[Systemlord]

Iron ferrous sulfate is not well absorbed, bis-glycinate has the least side effects and is well absorbed.

There are studies showing the return on iron deficiency in patients using ferrous sulfate which is more toxic and can cause GI problems and a host of other symptoms.

325mg ferrous sulfate is equal to 25mg bis-glycinate. My bis-glycinate has vitamin C and calcium mixed in to help with iron absorption.

 

[M.J]

Iron ferrous sulfate is not well absorbed, bis-glycinate has the least side effects and is well absorbed.

There are studies showing the return on iron deficiency in patients using ferrous sulfate which is more toxic and can cause GI problems.

I couldn’t find bis-glycinate I will search harder tomorrow m, thanksssss

 

[Bentiger07]

One thing for sure, yesterday I slept much worse than today, when I had that coffee. Although by no mean I had a good sleep now but yesterday was worse.

Why add fuel to the fire of insomnia? Consider drinking caffeine earlier in the day and/or less and/or quitting it. I like caffeine but I like sleep more.

To get the best of both worlds, so that caffeine doesnt bother my sleep, I had to build up a tolerance to it by adding it into my diet consistently in small but slowly increasing amounts until I reached a nice medium.

If I stop drinking caffeine for awhile and then start it again, I become sensitive again. Slowly adding it in worked for me. Not sure if there's any scientific reasoning for it, but works for me.

 

[M.J]

Why add fuel to the fire of insomnia? Consider drinking caffeine earlier in the day and/or less and/or quitting it. I like caffeine but I like sleep more.

To get the best of both worlds, so that caffeine doesnt bother my sleep, I had to build up a tolerance to it by adding it into my diet consistently in small but slowly increasing amounts until I reached a nice medium.

If I stop drinking caffeine for awhile and then start it again, I become sensitive again. Slowly adding it in worked for me. Not sure if there's any scientific reasoning for it, but works for me.

I am very sensitive to caffeine also, but my issue was LOW ferritin so back to drinking coffee

 

[backdr10]

I am a doc and allow me to explain my situation to you as I have already lived it. I am not saying 100% that your issue is completely the same as mine as I have no way of knowing your complete history. I was a healthy and power lifted most of my life, but at 42 had to deal with a gallbladder removal that led to severe complications and the diagnosis of a rare biliary disease which further led to weight gain, decreased ability exercise , and hormone/pituitary issues and the beginning of a nightmare for me. With that being said, after the weight gain, I developed abnormal sleep issues, but was dismissed by my doctors. At the same time, I was diagnosed with secondary hypogandism and began TRT. The sleep situation gradually got much worse but was still ignored by my docs until I told them that if they did not prescribe a sleep study, I would do it myself. By this point, I was in heart failure, Blood pressure was 200/120, developed Orthopnea ( can never lay flat or sleep in a bed), developed an aneurysm in my leg after a cardiac cath, and was also given a diagnosis of primary pulmonary hypertension due to untreated severe sleep apnea that was ignored by the pulmonologist for months. This all started after beginning TRT. Here is the issue, Many of us who deal with suboptimal levels of testosterone put on weight which can lead to worsening of underlying mild and undiagnosed sleep apnea. As our sleep continues to worsen over time, we start the see the effects on the cardiovascular, pulmonary, and hormonal systems. When testosterone becomes an issue, either because obesity secondarily decreases levels or because there is a defect in the HPA axis with its pituitary effects on hormone production, we develop a need for supplementation just to function somewhat normally and to preserve proper heart function; however, testosterone use also causes proliferation of the muscular portion of the posterior pharynx ultimately leading to more obstruction of the airway while sleeping. This can be a mechanism for worse sleep, hypoxia, and premature waking along with day time fatigue. Central sleep apnea and mixed sleep apnea syndrome are problems all of their own and are very complex. Therefore, testosterone supplemetion may provide you with extra energy, ;however, I do not believe it is enough to alter sleep unless there are other comorbid hormone issues. More than likely, and in many cases of sleep abnormalities, TRT causes issues becuase it worsens an underlying undiagnosed sleep apnea that needs an in lab sleep study to diagnose. In my case, I stopped breathing 125 times an hour. I was put on a cpap and screamed at the doctors telling them I was getting worse. I would wake up in a panic after falling asleep in a chair. I would abruptly wake gasping for air and run around the house trying to breath even with the use of the cpap. Being a physician, doesnt make a difference to anyone. I was ignored until I demanded a sleep titration with the cpap. It was found that the cpap made my issues worse and a bipap was needed as I figured. People with heart failure can get worse on a cpap because the very high constant inhalatory and expiratory pressures. A bipap has a lower expiratory pressure and the heart and lungs do not have to work as hard to expel CO2. There are also other hormonal feedback pathways by which testosterone can affect sleep, but I would be concerned about undiagnosed sleep apnea which should not be ignored in any case. As a side note, many of us that suffer form hypogonadism have a secondary iron deficiency and the bisglycinate form is one of the best for absorption and easiest on the stomach because it is chelated to the amino acid glycine, but levels of serum iron , ferritin, and total iron binding capacity need to be very carefully monitored especially if there is a concern for a secondary polycythemia. Pharmaceutical grade third party tested glycine supplements shown promise in improving sleep also.

 

[backdr10]

Sometimes we do not know if we have breathing problems when we are asleep because we are asleep -until we are not. You do not have to have horrible gasping for air and snoring to have sleep apnea. Some of us who are severe do present like this- others do not until the illness becomes much worse. If you have insomnia then there are a multitude of reasons for that, but if you can fall asleep and are awakened and cant go back to sleep there is an issue.

 

[madman]

I couldn’t find bis-glycinate I will search harder tomorrow m, thanksssss

Now Foods, Iron, 18 mg, 120 Veg Capsules




18 mg or 36 mg strength, 90 caps or 120 caps

dirt cheap and very effective

 

[M.J]

Thanks guys I can say for sure after starting the iron, l-lysin, and vitamin C, just 4 days on it I already feel better not 100% but way much better than last week for sure.

I will get iron bis-glycinate and although my sleep issue is defiantly becuz of ferritin as I see it now, but I have been told I have sever blockage which could cuz snoring and sleep issue but since I am not getting effected I can leave it but the recommendation was to fix it before it get worse, but knowing all this I will defiantly fix this very soon.

But as you said iron/ferritin need to be monitored during trt I didn’t know that. It also effected my libido for sure.

 

[wondering]

Dr. Romeo Mariano used to post that he believed Ferritin needed to be at 150 in men or expect behavior issues. He told me personally, if he were to grade Ferritin levels, 100 was a D. He said the adrenals need iron to function properly.

My issue is my Ferritin is usually in the 90s. But my Iron is top of range or over. So not sure what to make of it.

 

[M.J]

Final Update last two days I had a very good night sleep, without waking up at all, I will keep take the iron for some time though and do a test later.

Now that done trying to focus on libido issues