Raising ferritin FAST (a how-to, not a question)

[Gman86]

Can't help but take the bait, but how does hematocrit affect your ability to recover from exercise? What is the mechanism or physiology behind that? When did an increase in hematocrit cause fatigue? Why do we have our olympic athletes train at high altitude to cause a secondary erythrocytosis if it's going to cause them shortness of breath with exertion or fatigue? This is just another example of someone with underlying medical problems, and then wanting to apply those issues to men on testosterone.
Point is is that you obviously have an underlying medical condition that causes these issues but it doesn't apply to 99.99% of men on testosterone.

I’m still so confused by this. It’s very confusing to me that some men report feeling fatigued very easily when their HCT levels get into the low 50’s, and then we have professional cyclists using EPO to have more endurance/ stamina, and their HCT levels, on EPO, are closer to being 60+, I would assume. If high HCT levels can cause fatigue and decreased endurance, it’s very confusing why athletes would use it in hopes of receiving the exact opposite benefits

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I’m still so confused by this. It’s very confusing to me that some men report feeling fatigued very easily when their HCT levels get into the low 50’s, and then we have professional cyclists using EPO to have more endurance/ stamina, and their HCT levels, on EPO, are closer to being 60+, I would assume.

HCT is one of the variables that drives blood viscosity but not the only one. Another big factor is inflammation. Consequently, older, sicker, more inflamed people would have higher blood viscosity at lower HCT values than a healthy athlete with the same HCT. Readalot explored this in exhaustive detail (so exhaustive that some may have said TLDR) in his threads about it.

 

[Gman86]

HCT is one of the variables that drives blood viscosity but not the only one. Another big factor is inflammation. Consequently, older, sicker, more inflamed people would have higher blood viscosity at lower HCT values than a healthy athlete with the same HCT. Readalot explored this in exhaustive detail (so exhaustive that some may have said TLDR) in his threads about it.

I wonder if chronically elevated HCT levels can decrease endurance, but acutely elevated levels can increase endurance. Like maybe cyclicts do EPO, raise HCT levels like crazy, do their race, and then get a phlebotomy done

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I wonder if chronically elevated HCT levels can decrease endurance, but acutely elevated levels can increase endurance. Like maybe cyclicts do EPO, raise HCT levels like crazy, do their race, and then get a phlebotomy done

Check out this post from readalot where he shows how viscosity scales with hematocrit, and how it is also affected by inflammation, so that different people have different blood viscosity at the same HCT level:

Hematocrit drives Blood Viscosity- Does that Matter in Men on TRT? Effect of Altitude?

Hi ExcelMale folks, I wanted to start off by expressing my gratitude for this site, all of the amazing work that has been put in to make this place such a great source of information. I would expect no less from a chemical engineer :). I've been following this "debate" about how to properly...

www.excelmale.com

 

[RobRoy]

HCT is one of the variables that drives blood viscosity but not the only one. Another big factor is inflammation. Consequently, older, sicker, more inflamed people would have higher blood viscosity at lower HCT values than a healthy athlete with the same HCT. Readalot explored this in exhaustive detail (so exhaustive that some may have said TLDR) in his threads about it.

NOT IN MEN ON TESTOSTERONE. Baseline observations do not equate to men on testosterone.

 

[RobRoy]

I’m still so confused by this. It’s very confusing to me that some men report feeling fatigued very easily when their HCT levels get into the low 50’s, and then we have professional cyclists using EPO to have more endurance/ stamina, and their HCT levels, on EPO, are closer to being 60+, I would assume. If high HCT levels can cause fatigue and decreased endurance, it’s very confusing why athletes would use it in hopes of receiving the exact opposite benefits

Because they have been trained to think that way. But it doesn't work that way. These men that complain of such have comorbid conditions. This is the problem with forums is that you don't know the complete medical history of individuals that post. Athletes increase their hematocrit because it increases endurance not fatigue. There's a reason that our Olympic training facility is at high altitude in Colorado Springs. What you're confused by is misinformation by men in forums that you know nothing about other than what they choose to tell you.

 

[RobRoy]

Check out this post from readalot where he shows how viscosity scales with hematocrit, and how it is also affected by inflammation, so that different people have different blood viscosity at the same HCT level:

Hematocrit drives Blood Viscosity- Does that Matter in Men on TRT? Effect of Altitude?

Hi ExcelMale folks, I wanted to start off by expressing my gratitude for this site, all of the amazing work that has been put in to make this place such a great source of information. I would expect no less from a chemical engineer :). I've been following this "debate" about how to properly...

www.excelmale.com

Baseline observations do not apply to men on testosterone. When we give testosterone to men that are highly inflamed and obese and raise their hematocrit it improves their health and it's never been shown to cause harm. The US Navy has a normal hematocrit up to 61 in their labs

 

[NormalDude998]

Would this protocol work for someone who is not on TRT? (I don't think I saw anything in your article, but I'm also very sleep deprived so I may have missed it)

I'm a 26 y/o male with severe sleep issues (had 2 sleep studies, not sleep apnea or narcolepsy), but relatively low ferritin. My sleep medicine doctor believes getting my ferritin up to around 60-75 could potentially help my issues.

My latest bloodwork (~1 month ago).

HCT: 47.5
HGB: 16.3
RBC: 5.65

IRON: 183
%Sat: 41
TIBC: 441
Ferritin: 34
(Also negative for C282Y and H63D gene mutations)

Due to me not being on TRT, would this protocol just have zero effect on me? Or just much less effective?

 

[brookseth]

So I did this protocol for 10 days and my ferritin was still at 15. Any reasons this could be?
I was not taking any vit C or D

@FDV70

 

[Systemlord]

I was not taking any vit C or D

You can't absorb iron without both of these vitamins. Vitamin D not only regulates iron metabolism, it regulates hepcidin and vitamin D is a nitric oxide regulator.

I can't absorb my iron supplements very well without vitamin C (orange juice) taken at the same time as my iron.

 

[Big_Alan]

So I did this protocol for 10 days and my ferritin was still at 15. Any reasons this could be?
I was not taking any vit C or D

@FDV70

Same, I followed it to a T and wrote every thing to do and not to do. I re-read the Vorck protocol like 10 times trying to find nuggets I missed. I diligently avoided all the no-no (vitamin D, tanning, meds/supplements, iron-containing foods, etc.). After 12 days, my ferritin increased by 1, but my iron was jacked up to 200 and hematocrit/hemoglobin also increased a bit. I guess there are just certain folks it doesn't work....I'm jealous I really want it to work for me!

 

[Fortunate]

Has anyone been able to determine if their ferritin levels fluctuate during the day? I ask because I have been chasing a group of symptoms for about a 1.5 years and low ferritin is the best explanation. But, most days I have the symptoms specifically between around 11 AM and 3-4 PM. Before and after those times I am good. During those times, I am low energy, brain fog, really tired, depressed.

I am just wondering if it's plausible that there is a predictable dip in ferritin levels at certain times of the day? I have tested tested low several times. If I am borderline low and they dip, maybe that's enough to push me over the edge?

+1 on brookseth's (looks like he's not around here any more?) comment. I tried Vorck and it did not move symptoms or labs.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

. But, most days I have the symptoms specifically between around 11 AM and 3-4 PM.

It could be related to lower blood sugar, a dip due to poor night sleep, or caffeine wearing off. I get really tired after lunch for 2 hours and also after taking my meds.

My ferritin is low at 30 (no blood donations).

 

[Fortunate]

@Nelson Vergel, your thoughts are much appreciated. I have actually considered the caffeine theory. It is possible that I am chronically fatigued, but get a temporary boost via caffeine in the morning and when it wears off, I get the fatigue.

But, I have never had this crushing fatigue like this in the past and have been drinking caffeine for a long time. It's a mind F*(!@

I am working on sleep. Been on CPAP for a few months, but still struggling to get used to it.

 

[magnus68]

It could be related to lower blood sugar, a dip due to poor night sleep, or caffeine wearing off. I get really tired after lunch for 2 hours and also after taking my meds.

My ferritin is low at 30 (no blood donations).

Is it ok to have Ferritin so low? Have you tried any supplements to raise it?