PSA while using test and other anabolics

[Npreeze]

Hello!

I’m a 37 y/o on TRT and also compete in bodybuilding. As such, and especially around contests, I do a bit more than just TRT including adding other compounds. Have always been very on top of bloodwork.

I have been watching my PSA (I have an uncle and grandpa who had PCa) so I’ve been paranoid about it for years.

Prior to starting TRT, my PSA was 1.2
8 weeks in 1.6
6 months 1.8 ( this was taken directly after a show during which I used 500mg test, and Anavar)

Started taking 1mg finasteride to protect my hair.

Went through some intense contest prep at the end of last year and got bloods when the season ended. PSA dropped to 1.3 (assume finasteride my have lowered it despite high dose test, winstrol and Anavar to prepare for shows). All bloodwork was clean to my surprise.

Fast forward to my most recent blood test which came about 6 weeks after finishing up a growth cycle consisting of 600test and 700 EQ. PSA came in at 1.6 (still taking finasteride).

I know these numbers aren’t “high” and the doubling rule for finasteride-adjusted PSA is probably not as applicable when you have other androgens involved (as it only works on testosterone). My sports doc was not concerned by these numbers but I’m extra paranoid due to family history. I’ve decided to stop competing and I’m now just taking 120mg of TRT with nothing else (dropped finasteride as well as of today for other reasons). I also had a DRE 6 months ago and the doctor said my prostate feels normal.

Would you guys be concerned about this kind of PSA activity or am I being overly stressed for no reason?

Thanks in advance for any insights.

 

[Systemlord]

Started taking 1mg finasteride to protect my hair.

I would get off that sh** and stay off if I were you, it hides prostate cancer, meaning you can’t detect it!

You haven’t heard of post finasteride syndrome?

 

[Systemlord]

I’m extra paranoid due to family history.

Do you have a family history of high PSA or prostate cancer?

 

[Npreeze]

Yes, I have heard of PFS but fortunately never experienced any negative side effects from taking it for 1 year. I am okay with losing my hair now so decided to drop it.

 

[Npreeze]

Do you have a family history of high PSA?

Not sure about high PSA but I have two relatives that I know of on one side of my family who got PCa in their late 50’s.

I am Black so I know that the risk is higher for me and also have read that Black men tend to have higher PSAs (not sure how true that is).

 

[Npreeze]

I guess now it will be good to see how my PSA settles now that I’ve left behind the competitive bodybuilding lifestyle and high dose androgens. Even during “cruise” I was taking my prescribed 200mg per week which always had my test levels >1500. Now I want to just be in the 800-900 range without all of the other unhealthy mess.

 

[Systemlord]

I am Black so I know that the risk is higher for me

The risk is higher with lower T, higher T has been shown to prevent and even delay it.

 

[Keepfit1]

The risk is higher with lower T, higher T has been shown to prevent and even delay it.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by lower, maybe its more accurate to say the risk is higher if deficient ie below range

 

[Keepfit1]

Hello!

I’m a 37 y/o on TRT and also compete in bodybuilding. As such, and especially around contests, I do a bit more than just TRT including adding other compounds. Have always been very on top of bloodwork.

I have been watching my PSA (I have an uncle and grandpa who had PCa) so I’ve been paranoid about it for years.

Prior to starting TRT, my PSA was 1.2
8 weeks in 1.6
6 months 1.8 ( this was taken directly after a show during which I used 500mg test, and Anavar)

Started taking 1mg finasteride to protect my hair.

Went through some intense contest prep at the end of last year and got bloods when the season ended. PSA dropped to 1.3 (assume finasteride my have lowered it despite high dose test, winstrol and Anavar to prepare for shows). All bloodwork was clean to my surprise.

Fast forward to my most recent blood test which came about 6 weeks after finishing up a growth cycle consisting of 600test and 700 EQ. PSA came in at 1.6 (still taking finasteride).

I know these numbers aren’t “high” and the doubling rule for finasteride-adjusted PSA is probably not as applicable when you have other androgens involved (as it only works on testosterone). My sports doc was not concerned by these numbers but I’m extra paranoid due to family history. I’ve decided to stop competing and I’m now just taking 120mg of TRT with nothing else (dropped finasteride as well as of today for other reasons). I also had a DRE 6 months ago and the doctor said my prostate feels normal.

Would you guys be concerned about this kind of PSA activity or am I being overly stressed for no reason?

Thanks in advance for any insights.

you could always get a MRI scan which many say is better than PSA tests, my PSA at age 66 is up around 4.6 but a MRI scan showed last time it was just BPH. TRT seems to increase my PSA

 

[Npreeze]

you could always get a MRI scan which many say is better than PSA tests, my PSA at age 66 is up around 4.6 but a MRI scan showed last time it was just BPH. TRT seems to increase my PSA

Good idea. My urologist said my prostate feels small and normal. I think excessive androgen usage is probably to blame for pushing me from 1.2 - 1.6 and the finasteride was only blocking DHT from test but not the other compounds. Will push for MRI incase PSA it doesn’t go down now that I’m no longer competing/ using other harsh androgens.

 

[Systemlord]

I suppose it depends on what you mean by lower, maybe its more accurate to say the risk is higher if deficient ie below range

Lower Free T as in not in the top 25 percentile in older men. Some studies show a 30% increases in all cause mortality, it didn’t matter if Total T was very low <340 ng/dL or slightly low <549 ng/dL, the risk was the SAME.

The all cause mortality risk was reduced by 30% 550> ng/dL.

 

[jobshopper]

I would get off that sh** and stay off if I were you, it hides prostate cancer, meaning you can’t detect it!

You haven’t heard of post finasteride syndrome?

Amen brother!!

 

[SoxsRocks]

Remember everyone every body us different my father had prostate cancer for 30+ yrs before it took him. Myself 2 yrs ago went in to evaluate a growth on my right kidney, I just happen to get on the conversation with urologist of my dad and his prostate cancer..the urologists 1st question was when was the last time you had a prostate exam, My answer never my primary physician does not do them and only goes off PSA blood work, his eyes rolled in the back of his head and stated these guys are never going to learn.
Anyways fast forward as I was going under for the growth on my kidney he asked do you want to do biopsy to mske sure..my answer yes
12 biopsies (6 right/6 left side) later I was positive with a Gleason score of 3+4=7 my PSA was only.2.8.. WTF I had cancer
First thing my Urologist did was pull me off TRT. I monitored my PSA with Dr for a year it only climbed .3 to 3.1 Gleason score changed from 3+4 of 7 TO 4+3 of 7 getting a bit more aggressive The thing I had going for me it was capsulized with the prostate nothing outside
I went into surgery had radical prostatectomy removing it....it's been 10 mobth my PSA is 0 no sign of cancer, I get checked every 3 months.
So moral if this... DO NOT trust your primary DR if not checking prostate and do NOT always go by PSA score.
In addition I am back on trt

 

[Npreeze]

Remember everyone every body us different my father had prostate cancer for 30+ yrs before it took him. Myself 2 yrs ago went in to evaluate a growth on my right kidney, I just happen to get on the conversation with urologist of my dad and his prostate cancer..the urologists 1st question was when was the last time you had a prostate exam, My answer never my primary physician does not do them and only goes off PSA blood work, his eyes rolled in the back of his head and stated these guys are never going to learn.
Anyways fast forward as I was going under for the growth on my kidney he asked do you want to do biopsy to mske sure..my answer yes
12 biopsies (6 right/6 left side) later I was positive with a Gleason score of 3+4=7 my PSA was only.2.8.. WTF I had cancer
First thing my Urologist did was pull me off TRT. I monitored my PSA with Dr for a year it only climbed .3 to 3.1 Gleason score changed from 3+4 of 7 TO 4+3 of 7 getting a bit more aggressive The thing I had going for me it was capsulized with the prostate nothing outside
I went into surgery had radical prostatectomy removing it....it's been 10 mobth my PSA is 0 no sign of cancer, I get checked every 3 months.
So moral if this... DO NOT trust your primary DR if not checking prostate and do NOT always go by PSA score.
In addition I am back on trt

Thanks for sharing your experience and thank God you are doing well now man. I’ve always been spooked about prostate cancer since it runs on my Mom’s side of the family. Multiple 2nd degree relatives have had it (all in late 50’s - early 60’s). I’m only 37 but this year I’ve started getting PSA’s AND and annual DRE (by a urologist not a primary doc) just to be safe. I just worry about how my use of extra-physiological doses of Test and other anabolics impact my risk especially as I’ve seen my PSAs go up a little after heavy cycles. Needless to say, I’ve decided to throw in the towel on competing and I’m just taking 80mg test per week now.

 

[SoxsRocks]

Wise decision it not a science and I do not believe there is a true answer.
I was 59 when I found it and glad I did, we all have that moment of nah not.me I will be fine look my psa is low.
I am glad I did what I did and was sble to catch it.
Take care of yourself

 

[sbstrum_MD]

Hello!

I’m a 37 y/o on TRT and also compete in bodybuilding. As such, and especially around contests, I do a bit more than just TRT including adding other compounds. Have always been very on top of bloodwork.

I have been watching my PSA (I have an uncle and grandpa who had PCa) so I’ve been paranoid about it for years.

Prior to starting TRT, my PSA was 1.2
8 weeks in 1.6
6 months 1.8 ( this was taken directly after a show during which I used 500mg test, and Anavar)

Started taking 1mg finasteride to protect my hair.

Went through some intense contest prep at the end of last year and got bloods when the season ended. PSA dropped to 1.3 (assume finasteride my have lowered it despite high dose test, winstrol and Anavar to prepare for shows). All bloodwork was clean to my surprise.

Fast forward to my most recent blood test which came about 6 weeks after finishing up a growth cycle consisting of 600test and 700 EQ. PSA came in at 1.6 (still taking finasteride).

I know these numbers aren’t “high” and the doubling rule for finasteride-adjusted PSA is probably not as applicable when you have other androgens involved (as it only works on testosterone). My sports doc was not concerned by these numbers but I’m extra paranoid due to family history. I’ve decided to stop competing and I’m now just taking 120mg of TRT with nothing else (dropped finasteride as well as of today for other reasons). I also had a DRE 6 months ago and the doctor said my prostate feels normal.

Would you guys be concerned about this kind of PSA activity or am I being overly stressed for no reason?

Thanks in advance for any insights.

Yes, as a physician specializing in prostate cancer I would be concerned-- especially with your family history and the fact that you have performed what I call a biological stress test by using exogenous testosterone. The rate of change of PSA over time is a critical component v. the level of concern. A normal digital rectal examination (DRE) is a low level or almost non-significant biologic input in the context of your situation. Always test the PSA using the same lab and no ejaculation within 48 hours preceding the testing. No DRE prior to testing.
Do not go on and off finasteride or dutasteride since this will definitely muddy the picture. Create a simple Word table of your results along with the meds you are taking. This would be a good start. Remember that the TREND is crucial in early diagnosis of anything, from PC to climate change.

 

[Npreeze]

Yes, as a physician specializing in prostate cancer I would be concerned-- especially with your family history and the fact that you have performed what I call a biological stress test by using exogenous testosterone. The rate of change of PSA over time is a critical component v. the level of concern. A normal digital rectal examination (DRE) is a low level or almost non-significant biologic input in the context of your situation. Always test the PSA using the same lab and no ejaculation within 48 hours preceding the testing. No DRE prior to testing.
Do not go on and off finasteride or dutasteride since this will definitely muddy the picture. Create a simple Word table of your results along with the meds you are taking. This would be a good start. Remember that the TREND is crucial in early diagnosis of anything, from PC to climate change.

Thank you so much for your reply. At this point I’ve stopped all use of other anabolics and lowered my TRT dose to 80mg/ week.

Would you say this is call the urologist now and get a biopsy- level concerning, or stop using anabolics (apart from low dose TRT) and continue to follow PSA- level concerning?

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Slightly off-topic but something for you to look into is the protective affect of Vitamin D on prostate cancer. There was a study from several years that showed a strong protective affect for people with early stage PCa as I remember. I think the lead author was from the University of South Carolina. I remember one of the discussion points being that the explanation for why people with strong sub-saharan african genetics apparently have a higher risk of PCa (in the US, not in Africa) could largely be explained by reduced sun-exposure and hence reduced Vitamin D levels.

Also, back on topic, as someone on TRT you will likely want to stay up on any research coming out on whether Nandrolone reduces PCa risk. There is a school of thought that its metabolite DHN is less risky for the prostate than DHT, which would argue for a TRT program of part T, part N as some people here do. That sounds like shaky logic to me since high doses of T, and hence presumably high doses of DHT don't seem to increase risk, but I have not been following it closely. There is another poster here who, if I understand correctly, believes some cells reach a "saturation point" at which point higher blood levels don't matter, but it seems like a topic to keep an eye on.

 

[Npreeze]

Slightly off-topic but something for you to look into is the protective affect of Vitamin D on prostate cancer. There was a study from several years that showed a strong protective affect for people with early stage PCa as I remember. I think the lead author was from the University of South Carolina. I remember one of the discussion points being that the explanation for why people with strong sub-saharan african genetics apparently have a higher risk of PCa (in the US, not in Africa) could largely be explained by reduced sun-exposure and hence reduced Vitamin D levels.

Also, back on topic, as someone on TRT you will likely want to stay up on any research coming out on whether Nandrolone reduces PCa risk. There is a school of thought that its metabolite DHN is less risky for the prostate than DHT, which would argue for a TRT program of part T, part N as some people here do. That sounds like shaky logic to me since high doses of T, and hence presumably high doses of DHT don't seem to increase risk, but I have not been following it closely. There is another poster here who, if I understand correctly, believes some cells reach a "saturation point" at which point higher blood levels don't matter, but it seems like a topic to keep an eye on.

Wow this is some solid new information to me. Thanks man.

 

[jobshopper]

In 2124, half of all men can count on developing prostate cancer​

"The increasing incidence of prostate cancer is first and foremost a testimony to the overall improvement in health care since prostate cancer was first identified in the early 1800s. If prostate cancer isn’t yet viewed as a chronic disease that rarely warrants radical treatment, it is certainly heading in that direction."

In 2124, half of all men can count on developing prostate cancer - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov