Progesterone Dose for Men

[Gman86]

Not sure, but if I understand correctly yes.

This guy Dave Lee seems very familiar on the subject of upstream hormones. According to him progesterone is very important. The first way of raising progesterone generally he recommends is by pregnenolone for men on TRT. According to him the oral pregnenolone administration rapidly converts to progesterone in its metabolisation through the liver. Of course I guess this would not work for everybody.

I plan to try it in the near future, but I know at least until I get adjusted to preg I will have hard time with it - it makes me extremely sleepy(have tried only for 2 days in the past). Also as I know from the supplements only the Nutricology brand is certain to be high quality. I plan to order the 50mg tablets from Nutricology and cut them in 2 or 4. Dave Lee recommends only lipid matrix of pregnenolone to be supplemented. This video gets into a lot of depth on the subject:

Do u know why he recommends preg over progesterone to raise progesterone levels? Preg can convert into so many other things, and nobody knows exactly what it’s gonna convert into, and at which rates. And there’s no way for anyone to know how much preg to take to raise progesterone levels to where they want it in the range, other than trial and error with lab testing. Doesn’t it seem way more sensible to just take straight progesterone if raising progesterone levels are the goal?

 

[ivkonst2017]

Do u know why he recommends preg over progesterone to raise progesterone levels? Preg can convert into so many other things, and nobody knows exactly what it’s gonna convert into, and at which rates. And there’s no way for anyone to know how much preg to take to raise progesterone levels to where they want it in the range, other than trial and error with lab testing. Doesn’t it seem way more sensible to just take straight progesterone if raising progesterone levels are the goal?

I dont know about that, but I think there is an idea behind this. My guess is that maybe taking straight progesterone can be supresssing to own progesterone production?

 

[ivkonst2017]

Does somebody know if cabergoline suppresses progesterone? Im on caber for 2 years now, 0.5mg weekly

 

[Charliebizz]

I dont know about that, but I think there is an idea behind this. My guess is that maybe taking straight progesterone can be supresssing to own progesterone production?

They are recommending people using pregnenolone to boost people's progesterone that is undetectable so I doubt it's that. I don't know if any of you guys were on Dr crislers forum back in the day but preg was all the rage for a hot minute but quickly people started to bail on it just doesn't seem to work out as intended

 

[Gman86]

They are recommending people using pregnenolone to boost people's progesterone that is undetectable so I doubt it's that. I don't know if any of you guys were on Dr crislers forum back in the day but preg was all the rage for a hot minute but quickly people started to bail on it just doesn't seem to work out as intended

I just think it’s too unpredictable in regards to what it’s gonna convert into, and what levels of hormones one is going to get from taking a certain dose of preg. For instance, I naturally have very high levels of DHEA-S. Will preg raise those levels further? Will it lower those levels? Will it have no effect on them? I bet nobody has any clue. That’s the tough part about taking preg, nobody can tell u what it’s going to convert into, and how much of an effect it will have on those levels. So it’s just very hit or miss, and is why it seems to work for some and not for others.

And I agree, while on HRT, I don’t think suppressing endogenous progesterone production is the reason David Lee seems to recommend preg over straight progesterone supplementation. Not sure if taking progesterone in a natural will suppress endogenous progesterone production. I have heard, however, that taking progesterone in a natural can suppress endogenous testosterone levels

 

[Charliebizz]

I just think it’s too unpredictable in regards to what it’s gonna convert into, and what levels of hormones one is going to get from taking a certain dose of preg. For instance, I naturally have very high levels of DHEA-S. Will preg raise those levels further? Will it lower those levels? Will it have no effect on them? I bet nobody has any clue. That’s the tough part about taking preg, nobody can tell u what it’s going to convert into, and how much of an effect it will have on those levels. So it’s just very hit or miss, and is why it seems to work for some and not for others.

And I agree, while on HRT, I don’t think suppressing endogenous progesterone production is the reason David Lee seems to recommend preg over straight progesterone supplementation. Not sure if taking progesterone in a natural will suppress endogenous progesterone production. I have heard, however, that taking progesterone in a natural can suppress endogenous testosterone levels

I've heard both ways in regards to prog and t. Prog actually raised my natural tt from the 200s to 402. And free t from low normal to close to mid range. I'm just not sure why I didn't feel much better. I wonder if it's prog effe t on dht and e2. I have a better libido and exercise recovery on trt vs prog alone.

 

[Gman86]

I've heard both ways in regards to prog and t. Prog actually raised my natural tt from the 200s to 402. And free t from low normal to close to mid range. I'm just not sure why I didn't feel much better. I wonder if it's prog effe t on dht and e2. I have a better libido and exercise recovery on trt vs prog alone.

Oh ya I forgot about ur experience with progesterone and T levels. So either progesterone lowering T isn’t true or it’s different depending on the person

 

[Charliebizz]

Oh ya I forgot about ur experience with progesterone and T levels. So either progesterone lowering T isn’t true or it’s different depending on the person

Few sites online and some on ray peat report it raising t. With labs. I think a lot of the ones saying it lowers it are assuming because they had drop in libido. But again might be it's effects on dht and e2. Personally haven't seen anyone confirm with labs that it lowered it. But that doesn't mean it can't just going off my experience on all the forums

 

[Gman86]

Few sites online and some on ray peat report it raising t. With labs. I think a lot of the ones saying it lowers it are assuming because they had drop in libido. But again might be it's effects on dht and e2. Personally haven't seen anyone confirm with labs that it lowered it. But that doesn't mean it can't just going off my experience on all the forums

Ya sounds like it most likely increases T. Makes sense. If progesterone is known to cause T to convert less into E2 and DHT, the lower E2 should signal the hypothalamus to produce more GHRH to send to the pituitary, which would cause the pituitary to make more LH and FSH, and more LH to the testicles should result in more testosterone, granted the person doesn’t have primary hypogonadism. E2 is what kicks off the HPTA. Less E2 means ur body creates more T. More E2 tells ur body to lower T. It’s why ai monotherapy in naturals can increase T levels. So wouldn’t make sense that progesterone would lower T levels in naturals. Not sure where I heard that from

 

[Charliebizz]

Ya sounds like it most likely increases T. Makes sense. If progesterone is known to cause T to convert less into E2 and DHT, the lower E2 should signal the hypothalamus to produce more GHRH to send to the pituitary, which would cause the pituitary to make more LH and FSH, and more LH to the testicles should result in more testosterone, granted the person doesn’t have primary hypogonadism. E2 is what kicks off the HPTA. Less E2 means ur body creates more T. More E2 tells ur body to lower T. It’s why ai monotherapy in naturals can increase T levels. So wouldn’t make sense that progesterone would lower T levels in naturals. Not sure where I heard that from

I've heard it a lot also. I do wonder since I was taking 20mg per day and my prog was still on the lower end of normal if I would have upped the dose could I acty have gotten higher t levels andaybe started to see some benefits. I got off trt a few weeks ago and started to test that theory but I started to feel bad and lost all night woods libido. And by week 3 I started having trouble the day after working out. I know I would have needed way more time to give it a shot to work but I panicked and got back on trt.

My plan is to get back down to my healthy weight while using t and prog and then see if I can come off t and continue the prog. I'm almost 40 but I still want to give the old boys one last shot since trt isn't the greatest work around for me. But I knew it wasn't gonna end well trying to get off while dropping 20lbs

 

[ivkonst2017]

I've heard it a lot also. I do wonder since I was taking 20mg per day and my prog was still on the lower end of normal if I would have upped the dose could I acty have gotten higher t levels andaybe started to see some benefits. I got off trt a few weeks ago and started to test that theory but I started to feel bad and lost all night woods libido. And by week 3 I started having trouble the day after working out. I know I would have needed way more time to give it a shot to work but I panicked and got back on trt.

My plan is to get back down to my healthy weight while using t and prog and then see if I can come off t and continue the prog. I'm almost 40 but I still want to give the old boys one last shot since trt isn't the greatest work around for me. But I knew it wasn't gonna end well trying to get off while dropping 20lbs

What issues have you experienced on TRT so you come off?

 

[Charliebizz]

What issues have you experienced on TRT so you come off?

I get these strange almost constant pressure type headaches top of my head and back of eyes. I also start getting depressed and don't get excited by things like I used to. I also have some really bad days where I'm depressed or angry all day for no reason. That doesn't happen that often. But off trt I have none of that. It's strange because my red counts are perfect. And my blood pressure is 120/80. Off trt my rbc and BP are on the lower side of normal. So am I just super sensitive to those changes or is it the hpta shut down I'm not too sure. I seem to have better moods on prog so far but could be placebo or just having a good week.

 

[ivkonst2017]

I also start getting depressed and don't get excited by things like I used to. I also have some really bad days where I'm depressed or angry all day for no reason. That doesn't happen that often.

I've been feeling depressed, lethargic and unmotivated and feeling like WANTING to do nothing(all these I didnt have PRE TRT) on...all protocols I have tried with enanthate and cypionate. These esters just work terribly for me. The only ester of testosterone that has brought me any benefits is sustanon, injecting it daily or EOD. By benefits I mean feeling joy, hapiness, clarity of mind, confidence, good mood and libido. The strength at gym, muscle recovery and so on physical benefits I get also on the cyp and en of course. But the mental benefits - definetely not.

I transferred again from enanthate 10 days ago and now enanthate and cypionate are OFF my list of things I will ever put again in my body. I gave enanthate last chance 3 months ago just to be able to inject less often, but Im sure now it just didnt work for me. Maybe cause of the low progesterone, who knows? Now when I transferred from enanthate to sustanon felt the same like last year - a rush of energy, well being and joy since the FIRST injection. And by the way yes, Im sure it is not placebo. I have felt similar when I started TRT for the first time with sustanon, and always when I transfer from other ester. After 3-4 weeks on the protocol I stop feeling the immediate effect of the injections. But on starting a protocol it's like as soon as the fast esters hit me I already feel better, it doesnt matter what my blood levels of testosterone are. I think Im very sensitive and desperately need to have some fast esters and sustanon has 2 of them although they are not more than a third of the whole compound. Or maybe the combination of esters is what makes me feel good, or the peanut oil - who knows? I know I will stick to this product for the TRT part of my health. I havent tried prop, but I see no point since I dont have pharma grade here and that needs to be injected daily.

Having said that sustanon has major issues and because of that most doctors hate it - difficult to dial in and achieve stable levels. Also the way it was designed to work one injection for long interval works terrible for most people - even weekly, every 5 days or even bi weekly injections doesnt work well for most people. Also the oil is terrible for sub q.

Im just giving a perspective, maybe if you have the nervs, desire and time you can try it. Who knows, it may work for you as well? When I started TRT I planned to get enanthate, but I was too eager and grabbed the sustanon, because it was easier to get. I think that decision may have defined my life, with enanthate TRT would never work for me and I may have already quit For the first time my impatience has done something good.

I think you dont have pharmaceutical sustanon in USA though, you may need to use alternative sources if you decide to try it. But I can guarantee you at least for my body this ester works totally differently, and for me the statement that all testosterone is testosterone cannot be further from the truth. I know for the majority of people every test works, but there are the exceptions like me...

 

[ivkonst2017]

Having said that I know testosterone shouldnt be considered in isolation outside your other health issues. But I know as far as my TRT regimen sustanon is the best I can currently do and with that I will focus my on my other health issues - loosing weight, fixing my fatty liver disease, and fixing my stomach issues hoping this will reduce my serum iron levels and reverse T3, improving T4 to T3 conversion and I also hope fixing those issues my improve my progesterone. My thyroid can produce a lot of t4 when I jack myself with selenium, but the conversion is shitty and the gastro told me I have fatty liver disease and too high acid concentration in the stomach. If I dont see these fixed at later age Im inviting to myself cirrhosis and colon cancer.

 

[Charliebizz]

I've been feeling depressed, lethargic and unmotivated and feeling like WANTING to do nothing(all these I didnt have PRE TRT) on...all protocols I have tried with enanthate and cypionate. These esters just work terribly for me. The only ester of testosterone that has brought me any benefits is sustanon, injecting it daily or EOD. By benefits I mean feeling joy, hapiness, clarity of mind, confidence, good mood and libido. The strength at gym, muscle recovery and so on physical benefits I get also on the cyp and en of course. But the mental benefits - definetely not.

I transferred again from enanthate 10 days ago and now enanthate and cypionate are OFF my list of things I will ever put again in my body. I gave enanthate last chance 3 months ago just to be able to inject less often, but Im sure now it just didnt work for me. Maybe cause of the low progesterone, who knows? Now when I transferred from enanthate to sustanon felt the same like last year - a rush of energy, well being and joy since the FIRST injection. And by the way yes, Im sure it is not placebo. I have felt similar when I started TRT for the first time with sustanon, and always when I transfer from other ester. After 3-4 weeks on the protocol I stop feeling the immediate effect of the injections. But on starting a protocol it's like as soon as the fast esters hit me I already feel better, it doesnt matter what my blood levels of testosterone are. I think Im very sensitive and desperately need to have some fast esters and sustanon has 2 of them although they are not more than a third of the whole compound. Or maybe the combination of esters is what makes me feel good, or the peanut oil - who knows? I know I will stick to this product for the TRT part of my health. I havent tried prop, but I see no point since I dont have pharma grade here and that needs to be injected daily.

Having said that sustanon has major issues and because of that most doctors hate it - difficult to dial in and achieve stable levels. Also the way it was designed to work one injection for long interval works terrible for most people - even weekly, every 5 days or even bi weekly injections doesnt work well for most people. Also the oil is terrible for sub q.

Im just giving a perspective, maybe if you have the nervs, desire and time you can try it. Who knows, it may work for you as well? When I started TRT I planned to get enanthate, but I was too eager and grabbed the sustanon, because it was easier to get. I think that decision may have defined my life, with enanthate TRT would never work for me and I may have already quit For the first time my impatience has done something good.

I think you dont have pharmaceutical sustanon in USA though, you may need to use alternative sources if you decide to try it. But I can guarantee you at least for my body this ester works totally differently, and for me the statement that all testosterone is testosterone cannot be further from the truth. I know for the majority of people every test works, but there are the exceptions like me...

I'm with you bro. I can't tolerate cypionate at all some people will say we are crazy but I get all sorts of weird issues. So maybe in my case enathate isn't for me either. I have medquest cream on hand but I have 2 small children and cream becomes a pita. But maybe I should give it a real run.

 

[ivkonst2017]

I'm with you bro. I can't tolerate cypionate at all some people will say we are crazy but I get all sorts of weird issues. So maybe in my case enathate isn't for me either. I have medquest cream on hand but I have 2 small children and cream becomes a pita. But maybe I should give it a real run.

I totally understand you. I myself cannot understand how come I feel so terrible on the slow single esters, but seems my body is somehow very sensitive to the rate at which t is released.

So if this is the case for you you gotta try different products and discover what works for you. No doctor in the world will be able to tell you that and even if you find out what works nobody will know why, but just stick to it.

With my humble experience I would encourage you to try propionate, sustanon and scrotal 20 percent compounded cream. Propionate is clear, but sustanon is a very interesting product and very different than all other testosterone products. It has it positives and negatives, I dont know whether you can find a quality brand there, but I guess there is always a way. In Europe it is the most readily available pharmaceutical ester. In my country only nebido and sustanon are available, the enanthate I ordered from another EU country and a pharmacy that delivers internationally. The problem with sustanon is it is used the way it was designed to be used, and it is a terrible way. In my opinion and the people I have seen(here all people I know on TRT use sustanon) microdosing it is the best way to go, but because it doesnt work sub-q for 90 percent of people EOD scheduling is like the best balance and the long esters make that possible, but still your levels will vary and play.

 

[gerardo]

I totally understand you. I myself cannot understand how come I feel so terrible on the slow single esters, but seems my body is somehow very sensitive to the rate at which t is released.

So if this is the case for you you gotta try different products and discover what works for you. No doctor in the world will be able to tell you that and even if you find out what works nobody will know why, but just stick to it.

With my humble experience I would encourage you to try propionate, sustanon and scrotal 20 percent compounded cream. Propionate is clear, but sustanon is a very interesting product and very different than all other testosterone products. It has it positives and negatives, I dont know whether you can find a quality brand there, but I guess there is always a way. In Europe it is the most readily available pharmaceutical ester. In my country only nebido and sustanon are available, the enanthate I ordered from another EU country and a pharmacy that delivers internationally. The problem with sustanon is it is used the way it was designed to be used, and it is a terrible way. In my opinion and the people I have seen(here all people I know on TRT use sustanon) microdosing it is the best way to go, but because it doesnt work sub-q for 90 percent of people EOD scheduling is like the best balance and the long esters make that possible, but still your levels will vary and play.

Which pharmacy sends the enanthate internationally? How much progesterone is in your current protocol?

 

[ivkonst2017]

Which pharmacy sends the enanthate internationally? How much progesterone is in your current protocol?

I havent taken any progesteron so far, as for the enanthate I have ordered it from a pharmacy in Greece, it is the Greek enanthate Norma with castor oil(the best oil as far as I know), if you wanna order from there and you live in EU I can give you an email to write them.

 

[gerardo]

I havent taken any progesteron so far, as for the enanthate I have ordered it from a pharmacy in Greece, it is the Greek enanthate Norma with castor oil(the best oil as far as I know), if you wanna order from there and you live in EU I can give you an email to write them.

I live in Brazil and I don't know if any pharmacy sends it to Brazil. Did you have the blood test to see how much your progesterone is?

 

[ivkonst2017]

I live in Brazil and I don't know if any pharmacy sends it to Brazil. Did you have the blood test to see how much your progesterone is?

I dont think this pharmacy can ship outside EU.
My levels of progesterone are around 0.2ng/ml