Progesterone Dose for Men

[Gianluca]

Ok... so I did my blood work yesterday evening... I wanted to see where my Levels were peaking after injection (tested 11 hours after morning injection)... I am using a Test blend of CYP 160mg/Prop 40mg ED/SQ @ 16mg minus Esters = 10.24 mg.... I am also on 25-50mg Pregnenelone ed, Progesterone cream 20mg, DHEA 10mg, Armour thyroid 120mg (2 grains)....

Testosterone, Male	939.4 ng/dL	280.0-1,100.0 ng/dL
Testosterone, Free	262 pg/mL	47 - 244 pg/mL

Testosterone, Percent Free	2.8 %	1.6 - 2.9 %
Testosterone, Bioavailable	707 ng/dL	131 - 682 ng/dL

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin

17 nmol/L

11 - 80 nmol/L

DHEA Sulfate

283.4 mcg/dL

24.0 - 690.0 mcg/dL

Progesterone

0.65 ng/mL

0.28 - 1.22 ng/mL

I'm still waiting on E2, DHT and Pregnenolone tests to come back.



I mentioned before on this thread that over the last week I increased Progesterone cream to about 2 pumps which = about 40-50mg of cream which I was rubbing on scalp and temples and after about 5 or 6 days my nipples started to become very sensitive/sore, as I knew there was some kind of Estrogenic activity going on... I immediately researched side effects of too much Progesterone and found that too much could stimulate estrogenic activity in the breast tissue... however, as you see by my labs my progesterone is not elevated and right in middle of range.. this leaves two possibilities 1)Pregnenolone increase or 2) DHT being reduced from the Topical finasteride @.0125% for hairloss that I have been using for the past 2 months....

Also, In the Past I was using 180mg of Armour Thyroid (and sometimes added addtional T3) and over the last month I dropped my Armour Thyroid down to 120mg and this proved my theory of Thyroid supplementation and SHBG... When I am not on Thyroid Supplementation my SHBG is in the single digits, when on thryoid supplementation it raises my SHBG. When on Armour thyroid @ 180mg w/ 5 to 15mcg of T3 it boosted my SHBG to as high as 26-27 in the past.. .my last blood work 2 months ago I was on 180mg Armour Thyroid w/ no additional T3 and my SHBG was 22...

I will post labs as soon as I receive the rest....

keep us posted. Even though cataceous explained us that Progesterone may not effect that much DHT, considering the use of Finistrade plus the recent increase in Progesterone, something may have changed the way DHT is working in your body

I found this:

Role of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone in spontaneous gynecomastia of adolescents - PubMed

To test a possible hormonal mechanism of gynecomastia at puberty, a group of pubertal spontaneous gynecomastia (PSG) and healthy young volunteers (HYV), Tanner's stage II-V, were studied. Peripheral blood samples were obtained for measuring follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), luteinizing hormone...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

quote from the study:

"Whether spontaneous gynecomastia might exist in an enzimatic blockade of 5 alpha-reductase and whether a decrease in the THT ratio might favor the estrogen action for the progression of breast enlargement deserve further analysis."

 

[BillyJ03z]

keep us posted. Even though cataceous explained us that Progesterone may not effect that much DHT, considering the use of Finistrade plus the recent increase in Progesterone, something may have changed the way DHT is working in your body

I found this:

Role of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone in spontaneous gynecomastia of adolescents - PubMed

To test a possible hormonal mechanism of gynecomastia at puberty, a group of pubertal spontaneous gynecomastia (PSG) and healthy young volunteers (HYV), Tanner's stage II-V, were studied. Peripheral blood samples were obtained for measuring follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), luteinizing hormone...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

quote from the study:

"Whether spontaneous gynecomastia might exist in an enzimatic blockade of 5 alpha-reductase and whether a decrease in the THT ratio might favor the estrogen action for the progression of breast enlargement deserve further analysis."

Here is my DHT results.....

5 A DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE

412.5 pg/mL

106.0 - 719.0 pg/mL

My DHT has dropped more than 50% since I last tested (882.7 on 1/10/22).... on a side-note, I was using straight Test Prop when I had my labs tested and now I'm on Cyp/Prop blend which doesn't peak/convert to as much DHT either.. Also, these two labs were done at peak (10-11hr post inj)..... but I guess the topical Finasteride @ .025/ml is going slightly systemic which is expected... no side effects other than the sore/sensitive nipples I was experiencing last week but I took 3 doses of Adex @ .25mg over 6 days and soreness/sensitivity completely gone.... I will continue the topical progesterone @ 20mg and reduce the Topical finasteride to .0125/ml...... Still waiting on E2 and Pregnenolone results.

 

[Gianluca]

Here is my DHT results.....

5 A DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE

412.5 pg/mL

106.0 - 719.0 pg/mL

My DHT has dropped more than 50% since I last tested (882.7 on 1/10/22).... on a side-note, I was using straight Test Prop when I had my labs tested and now I'm on Cyp/Prop blend which doesn't peak/convert to as much DHT either.. Also, these two labs were done at peak (10-11hr post inj)..... but I guess the topical Finasteride @ .025/ml is going slightly systemic which is expected... no side effects other than the sore/sensitive nipples I was experiencing last week but I took 3 doses of Adex @ .25mg over 6 days and soreness/sensitivity completely gone.... I will continue the topical progesterone @ 20mg and reduce the Topical finasteride to .0125/ml...... Still waiting on E2 and Pregnenolone results.

good thing your symptoms have subsided. Was it just the sensitivity/sore or you were seeing some puffiness in the area as well? curios to see the E2 at this point,

is there also a relationship between gynocleomastia and Pregnenolone?

 

[BillyJ03z]

good thing your symptoms have subsided. Was it just the sensitivity/sore or you were seeing some puffiness in the area as well? curios to see the E2 at this point,

is there also a relationship between gynocleomastia and Pregnenolone?

It was sore/irritated and the whole breast area seemed bloated.. no tissue development.. more just inflamed.....

Yeah, Im curious to see E2 levels.... should be soon...

 

[Gianluca]

@Gman86 Just received my result for the E@, and I confirm that 25mg Progesterone cream on scrotum lowered my E2 from about 40 down to 18, still waiting on the DHT result, however I don't have any prior result to compare that with. Progesterone level at peak is .6 (Labcorp Scale)

 

[Anonymon]

@Gman86 Just received my result for the E@, and I confirm that 25mg Progesterone cream on scrotum lowered my E2 from about 40 down to 18, still waiting on the DHT result, however I don't have any prior result to compare that with. Progesterone level at peak is .6 (Labcorp Scale)

That’s very interesting. Did you feel any different before and after doing that? I use 20-25mgish on the skin of my inner thigh every morning, but when I applied it to my scrotum way back, I mostly became irritable.

 

[Gianluca]

That’s very interesting. Did you feel any different before and after doing that? I use 20-25mgish on the skin of my inner thigh every morning, but when I applied it to my scrotum way back, I mostly became irritable.

I had some bad low E2 symptoms for a week or so, plus lower libido/erection sex drive, whose actually improved, especially 1 or 2 hrs after Progesterone application, actually the erection and sex drive after Progest application is very good better than before.

I do sometime feel a bit more irritable than before, and almost every time I move a bone, my joint crack and pop. Low E2 can cause irritability, perhaps you were absorbing the cream at a greater degree on the scrotum causing lower E2

I also tried before the cream on my inner thigs or forearm, starting from 6.25mg up to 12.5mg, but they would not effect levels at all even though I would still feel a "doping" feeling from it, even the next day.

 

[Gman86]

@Gman86 Just received my result for the E@, and I confirm that 25mg Progesterone cream on scrotum lowered my E2 from about 40 down to 18, still waiting on the DHT result, however I don't have any prior result to compare that with. Progesterone level at peak is .6 (Labcorp Scale)

Get ur DHT results in yet?

 

[Gianluca]

Get ur DHT results in yet?

not yet, there are some delays, I was told from Defy some guys are waiting up to 20 days for certain tests right now. I'll post the result once I receive it.

 

[Gianluca]

@Gman86 I got my full results back.

The 18.7 E2 I reported last week, was actually an incorrect result was given to me.

The results are: E2 47.5, DHT 99 ng/dl. Quiet different from the 18.7 of E2 that came back about a month ago, the DHT at 99 shows high on the lab, but I have no idea what the optimal ranges are, I don't think it is low though.

I still complaining of my joints cracking a popping all day long. But at times, I little bit emotional. Consider my SHBG is low, so free DHT and E2 should be even higher

 

[Gman86]

@Gman86 I got my full results back.

The 18.7 E2 I reported last week, was actually an incorrect result was given to me.

The results are: E2 47.5, DHT 99 ng/dl. Quiet different from the 18.7 of E2 that came back about a month ago, the DHT at 99 shows high on the lab, but I have no idea what the optimal ranges are, I don't think it is low though.

I still complaining of my joints cracking a popping all day long. But at times, I little bit emotional. Consider my SHBG is low, so free DHT and E2 should be even higher

How do u know the 18.7 is actually incorrect?

Do u have any total and free T labs to go along with these?

What’s ur SHBG at? How low we talking?

99 is over the top of the range I’m pretty sure. Last time I had DHT checked the range was (16-79). So to me, it looks like the prog ur taking didn’t lower E2 or DHT even a little bit. Is the prog cream that ur using compounded or OTC?

So ur joints are currently cracking and popping all day? Is there any other changes u made around the time this started happening? Prog is known to down regulate E2 receptors, as far as I know, so I guess it could still be decreasing E2’s effects in ur body on a receptor level

 

[Gianluca]

How do u know the 18.7 is actually incorrect?

Do u have any total and free T labs to go along with these?

What’s ur SHBG at? How low we talking?

99 is over the top of the range I’m pretty sure. Last time I had DHT checked the range was (16-79). So to me, it looks like the prog ur taking didn’t lower E2 or DHT even a little bit. Is the prog cream that ur using compounded or OTC?

So ur joints are currently cracking and popping all day? Is there any other changes u made around the time this started happening? Prog is known to down regulate E2 receptors, as far as I know, so I guess it could still be decreasing E2’s effects in ur body on a receptor level

responding in sequence here to your questions:

the 18.7 E2 was correct, but it was just the test I have done in February when I felt I had bad low E2 symptoms. They send me this by mistake again. The 47.5 is actually the correct one from two weeks ago.

My TT is at 666 and FT 29, SHBG at 9.9

Progesterone RX from Empower

It could be that sticking in Progesterone downregulate E2 receptor activity, that is why my joints are still cracking, or maybe It takes a little longer for the joints to work properly again? I don't know.

The only change I made here is sticking to a 100mg Pregnenolone cream daily for sometime, and according to the literature, topical Pregnenolone converts into Cortisol and DHEA. Indeed, after two weeks only on this dose, my DHEA went from about 350 to 550. Probably why my DHT and E2 are a bit high or higher than before. I did notice more body hair, sex drive, libido and erections improving

I do not think my E2 went from 18.7 to 45 because the more DHEA, I just think there may have been a transient decrease in E2 due to the initiation of Progesterone

 

[Anonymon]

Has anyone experimented with splitting up progesterone or pregnenolone doses as opposed to taking it all at once, either in pill or topical form? I’d been on 400mg of pregnenolone pills alongside 50mg of the cream for a while but am coming off of the pills for now because it may make me react poorly to potassium containing foods. Wondering if maybe the bolus dose at once is causing it to convert more to some things than others.

 

[Gman86]

responding in sequence here to your questions:

the 18.7 E2 was correct, but it was just the test I have done in February when I felt I had bad low E2 symptoms. They send me this by mistake again. The 47.5 is actually the correct one from two weeks ago.

My TT is at 666 and FT 29, SHBG at 9.9

Progesterone RX from Empower

It could be that sticking in Progesterone downregulate E2 receptor activity, that is why my joints are still cracking, or maybe It takes a little longer for the joints to work properly again? I don't know.

The only change I made here is sticking to a 100mg Pregnenolone cream daily for sometime, and according to the literature, topical Pregnenolone converts into Cortisol and DHEA. Indeed, after two weeks only on this dose, my DHEA went from about 350 to 550. Probably why my DHT and E2 are a bit high or higher than before. I did notice more body hair, sex drive, libido and erections improving

I do not think my E2 went from 18.7 to 45 because the more DHEA, I just think there may have been a transient decrease in E2 due to the initiation of Progesterone

Thanks for the detailed reply. So were u on the same except testosterone dose/ protocol and same prog dose/ protocol both when ur E2 came back at 18.7 and when it came back at 47.5? Only thing u said u changed between the two E2 readings were being on and off the 100mg of preg?

 

[Gianluca]

Thanks for the detailed reply. So were u on the same except testosterone dose/ protocol and same prog dose/ protocol both when ur E2 came back at 18.7 and when it came back at 47.5? Only thing u said u changed between the two E2 readings were being on and off the 100mg of preg?

pretty much the same, I haven't changed anything with my test in over a year. But even when I pulled the first time the E2, which came back at 18.7, I was on 100mg Pregn Cream as well. Another thing I switched from APS DHEA 15mg cap to Empower DHEA cap 15mg, but that was 10 days ago

I feel like it is a bit of a headache here with the Progesterone. I may just keep the 100mg Pregn cream and add a small 25mg Pregn cap to raise Progesteone, see how that works, or maybe a 50/50 like I used to do before, and using maybe the Progest cream as needed only for anxiety

 

[Gman86]

pretty much the same, I haven't changed anything with my test in over a year. But even when I pulled the first time the E2, which came back at 18.7, I was on 100mg Pregn Cream as well. Another thing I switched from APS DHEA 15mg cap to Empower DHEA cap 15mg, but that was 10 days ago

I feel like it is a bit of a headache here with the Progesterone. I may just keep the 100mg Pregn cream and add a small 25mg Pregn cap to raise Progesteone, see how that works, or maybe a 50/50 like I used to do before, and using maybe the Progest cream as needed only for anxiety

Ya I’ve said it a few times, but I just think prog cream is the worst way to supplement it. I kind of wish nobody was supplementing prog in that form tbh. Because I feel like most guys use prog cream whenever they supplement with prog, and it just seems like it’s very difficult to get dialed in with prog when using it in the cream form, for a few reasons, and then they have side effects and a negative experience with it, and then other guys now think all these things are associated with prog supplementation, when it really could all be due to the form of prog that these people are using, not so much prog itself

 

[newuser]

Ya I’ve said it a few times, but I just think prog cream is the worst way to supplement it. I kind of wish nobody was supplementing prog in that form tbh. Because I feel like most guys use prog cream whenever they supplement with prog, and it just seems like it’s very difficult to get dialed in with prog when using it in the cream form, for a few reasons, and then they have side effects and a negative experience with it, and then other guys now think all these things are associated with prog supplementation, when it really could all be due to the form of prog that these people are using, not so much prog itself

What progesterone form would be the best?

 

[Gman86]

What progesterone form would be the best?

I personally think that injectable prog is the best form. The prog range is extremely tight, so the only way to get balanced and consistent prog levels as a male, when supplementing exogenously, is with the injectable form, imo.

The range is (0.0-1.0 ng/ml). Well technically 0.0-0.5ng/ml, but I don’t go by this range. I feel that it is incorrect for males. I go by the range that was used for years prior to its recent change, which is 0.0-1.0ng/ml. The only two guys using injectable prog here is me and @Cataceous, as far as I’m aware. He uses about 0.6mg/ day the last time I checked, and that dose brings his level to around 0.6-0.7ng/ml I believe. I’ve only had prog tested twice on injectable prog. Once while using 1mg/ day, and my level came back at 0.4ng/ml. I then bumped my dose up to 2mg/ day, and my prog level came back at 1.6ng/ml. But the injectable prog I was using at the time was a high concentration. It was 100mg/ ml. So I had to use extremely little oil to get my doses of 1 and 2mg/ day, and I just don’t think u can accurately dose it when the oil comes in such a high concentration. I’m now using an injectable prog that’s 50mg/ ml, and a little easier to dose accurately. I’m currently using 1mg/ day, but haven’t had labs done using this dose and brand of oil yet.

Point is that me and @Cataceous are using 1mg or less of prog to get our levels within the normal range. Yet I see guys using 25mg of prog cream, or around the same amount of mg’s of oral prog. Yes, not all of it is going to be absorbed like injectable prog would, but as we can see with me and @Cataceous’ results, just 0.5-1mg of prog into our system can considerably effect prog levels, and could be the difference between being in range and feeling good, and ur level being way outside of the range and having side effects. So I just think it’s literally impossible to dial in exogenous prog, as a man, when using any form other than injectable prog. There’s no way to know how many mg’s ur getting with the oral or cream forms first of all, and secondly there’s no way to keep consistent levels with either form, and make sure ur getting the proper dose to keep ur levels where u want them, within a 0.5-1mg level of accuracy, in regards to ur dose. It’s just not gonna happen. More likely to dose accurately with the oral form than the cream, but I just don’t see it being possible to dial in prog levels as a man with the oral form either. But the cream form is just a nightmare, imo, and I feel bad for anyone trying to dial in with that form, and again, I think it does more harm than good to HRT in males overall, just because of all the negative experiences guys are gonna most likely have on prog cream, and then deter other men from even trying it

 

[Gman86]

No offense to @Gianluca. I love all the experimenting ur doing on the subject, and how methodical u are with everything, and how interested u are in things like prog and preg, in regards to optimizing one’s protocol. I’m sure u understand what I was saying above

 

[Vtail]

Just another data point for you guys - Before I started taking Pregnenolone my progesterone was 0.2. I have since been taking 100mg/day of Pregnenolone, and my progesterone is now 0.8

My pregnenolone level was 14 before, and is now 81 [Labcorp scale of <151]

[Amazon.com]