only happy when estradiol is VERY low

[ggenovez]

I was on 210mg / week and 3.5 mg Anastrazol. That was my best feeling. Got a new nurse, hated my protocol and switched me to 168 mg T and exemestane 25mg x3. by day 5 I was sleeping 10h and waking up exhausted, trouble emptying bladder... Did my blood work and starterd bringing up my dose to 50mg 3x and I don't have the same energy, joints are now sore and just feeling awful. So going on my previous experience 210mg was my sweat spot for T and I never felt joint pain with 3.5 mg Az. exemestane feels like the worst of both worlds.

 

[Gman86]

I was on 210mg / week and 3.5 mg Anastrazol. That was my best feeling. Got a new nurse, hated my protocol and switched me to 168 mg T and exemestane 25mg x3. by day 5 I was sleeping 10h and waking up exhausted, trouble emptying bladder... Did my blood work and starterd bringing up my dose to 50mg 3x and I don't have the same energy, joints are now sore and just feeling awful. So going on my previous experience 210mg was my sweat spot for T and I never felt joint pain with 3.5 mg Az. exemestane feels like the worst of both worlds.

Obv it makes sense why ur feeling so bad. Ur on the equivalent of 6mg of anastrozole, while concurrently being on a lower dose of test. From ur sweet spot, u almost doubled ur already insane dose of ai, while lowering ur T dose by 20%. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that ur gonna feel worse than u’ve ever felt on HRT. No offense obv. This is ur nurse’s fault, not yours. But just imagine if u were still on 210mg/ week of test, and were on 3.5mg of anastrozole per week and feeling amazing. And then u decided to bump up ur anastrozole dose to 6mg per week. How do u think u would feel? Amazing still, or feel the absolute worst u’ve ever felt? Obv the latter. And that’s if u were still on 210mg of test per week. Ur on a 20% lower dose of test now. So ur gonna feel like absolute crap, but worse because ur T dose is now lower as well.

To me it makes sense to try and get her to let u go back up to 210mg of test, or just increase the dose urself, and keep ur exemestane dose around 87.5mg total for the week, however u want to split it up.

What did ur bloodwork look like when u were on 25mg of exemestane 3x/ week?

 

[MIP1950]

I was on 210mg / week and 3.5 mg Anastrazol. That was my best feeling. Got a new nurse, hated my protocol and switched me to 168 mg T and exemestane 25mg x3. by day 5 I was sleeping 10h and waking up exhausted, trouble emptying bladder... Did my blood work and starterd bringing up my dose to 50mg 3x and I don't have the same energy, joints are now sore and just feeling awful. So going on my previous experience 210mg was my sweat spot for T and I never felt joint pain with 3.5 mg Az. exemestane feels like the worst of both worlds.

From the bodybuilding site, Evolutionary.org: "Aromasin is a suicidal aromotase inhibitor. Exmestane binds with aromatase enzymes and then subsequently permanently disables the enzyme by destroying it." From your experience with it, versus anastrozole, I would agree with Gman that you were better off at 210 mg of T per week, along with 3.5 mg of anastrozole. Exmestane seems like, for men, a sledge hammer approach to managing/manipulating the conversion of T to estradiol.

Like you, a few years ago, I was on daily 30 mg, IM, test enanthate and though, at least, psychologically, I felt better(less depressed, horny but few erections) I went from 150 to 170 lbs but refused to try an AI because of everything I read about how higher E2 improves erectile function. My E2 was 60(extra sensitive test/LabCorp). I had a bottle of anastrozole which my urologist prescribed.

As I previously wrote, some men, a minority, need a moderate to high dose of an AI in order for them to restore erectile function, as well as for emotional/physical health. I'm desperate to restore my erectile function and my reluctance to utilize an AI might have been defeating my efforts.

 

[ggenovez]

I'm back on 210mg T and 3.5mg Anastrazol. I'll be checked for bone density issues and we'll take it from there.

Unfortunately the exemestane wreaked havoc on my joints I'm on glucosamine Chndroitin with MSM and Bromelain and off all AI for now. That also means I'm really tired even with the extra T i've been taking for the past 3 days

 

[ggenovez]

From the bodybuilding site, Evolutionary.org: "Aromasin is a suicidal aromotase inhibitor. Exmestane binds with aromatase enzymes and then subsequently permanently disables the enzyme by destroying it." From your experience with it, versus anastrozole, I would agree with Gman that you were better off at 210 mg of T per week, along with 3.5 mg of anastrozole. Exmestane seems like, for men, a sledge hammer approach to managing/manipulating the conversion of T to estradiol.

Like you, a few years ago, I was on daily 30 mg, IM, test enanthate and though, at least, psychologically, I felt better(less depressed, horny but few erections) I went from 150 to 170 lbs but refused to try an AI because of everything I read about how higher E2 improves erectile function. My E2 was 60(extra sensitive test/LabCorp). I had a bottle of anastrozole which my urologist prescribed.

As I previously wrote, some men, a minority, need a moderate to high dose of an AI in order for them to restore erectile function, as well as for emotional/physical health. I'm desperate to restore my erectile function and my reluctance to utilize an AI might have been defeating my efforts.

MIP, as you know, estrogen is a feedback system. when your T goes up, your body releases E to tell your testies to stop producing. There is a fine balance for everything to work. I might be an extreme case and very sensitive to E but your erectile issues could be related to too much E. that is my issue and why I use that as one of the metrics to determine if my E is in the right area.

 

[MIP1950]

MIP, as you know, estrogen is a feedback system. when your T goes up, your body releases E to tell your testies to stop producing. There is a fine balance for everything to work. I might be an extreme case and very sensitive to E but your erectile issues could be related to too much E. that is my issue and why I use that as one of the metrics to determine if my E is in the right area.

Thanks, ggenovez. That's what I intend to discuss with my urologist next Tuesday. He's been involved in hormone replacement for 30 years and keeps up with research and what's cutting edge. I don't want to get my hopes up about ultra low E2 restoring my erections. The PDE-5 drugs give me a severe headache without much of an erection, so using an AI to radically alter E2 is the one thing I've never tried.

 

[MarcoFL]

Thanks, ggenovez. That's what I intend to discuss with my urologist next Tuesday. He's been involved in hormone replacement for 30 years and keeps up with research and what's cutting edge. I don't want to get my hopes up about ultra low E2 restoring my erections. The PDE-5 drugs give me a severe headache without much of an erection, so using an AI to radically alter E2 is the one thing I've never tried.

Give L Citrulline a try! I take 5 grams of powder on water couple times a day! cheap and no sides for me! I tried branded Cialis but had lot of sides with it. It also lowers blood pressure! talk to your doctor first.

 

[MIP1950]

Give L Citrulline a try! I take 5 grams of powder on water couple times a day! cheap and no sides for me! I tried branded Cialis but had lot of sides with it. It also lowers blood pressure! talk to your doctor first.

I've tried it, several years ago, and it made me irritable, hyper and restless. I have bipolar illness and it's on my Do Not Take list but I know many men find it to be quite helpful.

 

[ajax31]

I've tried it, several years ago, and it made me irritable, hyper and restless. I have bipolar illness and it's on my Do Not Take list but I know many men find it to be quite helpful.

Have you had a liver function panel? AST, ALT and particularly GGT.

 

[Deleted member 42882]

I've tried it, several years ago, and it made me irritable, hyper and restless. I have bipolar illness and it's on my Do Not Take list but I know many men find it to be quite helpful.

Since the PDE-5's didn't work for you, I would think that blood flow isn't the issue anyway. But if I'm wrong, and you haven't tried it yet and it's not on your DNT list, you may want to consider Arginine. It worked for me, while Citrulline didn't.

 

[MIP1950]

Since the PDE-5's didn't work for you, I would think that blood flow isn't the issue anyway. But if I'm wrong, and you haven't tried it yet and it's not on your DNT list, you may want to consider Arginine. It worked for me, while Citrulline didn't.

I have an arginine story. It's a neuroexcitatory amino acid. Bad for me, even at low dose but, I read it could help restore the sleep cycle. So I took 2500 mg. Slept terribly, though I kept getting erections BUT, that day, I was in a dysphoric mania; extremely angry, extremely irritable and thought I'd have to go in-patient. Lasted for three days. I was effing scared and I've had severe manic episodes years ago but this was a whole other animal. If anyone has a mood disorder be careful with some amino acids.

 

[MIP1950]

Have you had a liver function panel? AST, ALT and particularly GGT.

Had one in August as part of labs for my urologist. Normal.

 

[DonaldPump2020]

I can understand that this is a TRT only, and not a AAS site.
Everyone is different but low T/e2 can be mental hell, especially for those who already have some mental problems.

I started drinking alcohol everyday due to low t/e2.
I also tried dbol to raise e2 (it was the obsessive thoughts, paranoia, psychosis and anxiety that was so hellish for me). But even when my nips were itchy from dbol i still had no relief in symptoms.
Also doubling my TRT dose for a week or two didnt do anything. it was no "shortcut".

I HAD to wait the 5 weeks minimum before it slowly got better.
Just say safe,

 

[MIP1950]

I can understand that this is a TRT only, and not a AAS site.
Everyone is different but low T/e2 can be mental hell, especially for those who already have some mental problems.

I started drinking alcohol everyday due to low t/e2.
I also tried dbol to raise e2 (it was the obsessive thoughts, paranoia, psychosis and anxiety that was so hellish for me). But even when my nips were itchy from dbol i still had no relief in symptoms.
Also doubling my TRT dose for a week or two didnt do anything. it was no "shortcut".

I HAD to wait the 5 weeks minimum before it slowly got better.
Just say safe,

Regarding reducing E2 via an AI, I reiterate that IMO, men who get a positive response(mood, libido, erections) are likely biochemical outliers in the same way that a few men might need 300 mg of T per week or do better 5 mg, daily, subq or IM. My urologist follows this site and he told me he read the posts on pushing E2 to the bottom with an AI. I'm one of his problem patients and I'm quite fortunate that he's willing to keep trying.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

My urologist follows this site and he told me he read the posts on pushing E2 to the bottom with an AI

Good to read this.

 

[JA Battle]

Good to read this.

Just goes to show how valuable it is to blend data and anecdote, of which this forum has created a healthy balance herein. I’m sure this board has proved useful for many physicians.

 

[Fortunate]

so the problem on high E2 is I can't empty my bladder completely. Its full but all I can do is get a trickle out. that's why I wake up several times a night if I'm not on high AI

I'm taking .12 ml of 200 mg/ml daily so 168 mg / week.
HCG 500iu SQ BIW
Testosterone 50mg/ml cream - 2 clicks to scrotum AM

I do workout. But I've recently found this epiphany and when I told my nurse about it she said it was too high of a dose and instructed me to lower my dose.

I feel like ass.

So I'm just trying to figure out if this is normal or I should see a specialist or something else.

Gman, what I did was create a spreadsheet. and every day I would put my mood, libido, amount of sleep (on high dose I would get 6-7H and feel great on low dose I would get 9-10 H and feel aweful waking up.), morning erection, evening erection and any thing else I could thing about. Then I would start a protocol say .5g 3x a week. I could literealy see differences the following day, and by day 3 I would feel miserable again. then 4x a week and so on and so forth. but track any changes and you will see a pattern.

Thank God I am not the only one using spreadsheets to follow my symptoms! It’s been a long 7 months and I have my data to prove it! My latest theory is that perhaps I am one of those who is super sensitive to E2 and that even small bumps make me feel bad. I have no idea if this is true, but to test the theory, I recently tried nandrolone (minimal metabolite formation). I didn’t get the usual headaches I got with test injections, but I got nervous using it. So, I decided using standard test with an AI may be a safer way to test my theory.

So, I am watching this thread with interest. I am currently trying to find advice on a reasonable starting dose of anastrazole. I have injected at various frequencies. I happen to have some Xyosted laying around, which is once a week. Weekly is a bit old school, but I did decent on it in the past.

I was considering .25mg a few hours after the shot. I‘d like to know how long the once a week AI will be bioavailable? If I inject once a week, do I need to do a second AI dose later in the week to deal with the T that is laying around? I realize this kind of thing is highly individual, so I am really just looking for anecdotes.

@ggenovez, I struggled with cream. I suspect my test levels shot up massively on cream, and along with the huge swings were swings in DHT and E2. Maybe cream is part of the reason you need so much AI?

 

[Fortunate]

I posted above before I had a chance to read all the posts. This is helpful. Would love to hear from some other members about their AI experiences.

 

[MIP1950]

my initial (years ago) was like 1/4mg 2x week. that did nothing. I would go back to my nurse and get "how do you feel" and then bump. eventually, I got up to 1/2 mg 3X per week. That's when I noticed a big difference. The next day after taking my pill I felt great. The next day not so much. And over the 2 day low it got worse.

That being said, go slow. it took me 2 months to dial it in. run your protocol for about 10 days before you make a change.

But the day after you take your AI ask yourself how was my energy through the day, how long did I sleep, morning wood... and just date the record and put in 1, 2 or 3

It's the same thing we do with our Dr. when they ask how are you feeling but rather than wait 3-6 months we make small adjustment. Probably want to let your dr know what you're doing as well.

Saw my urologist today. He prescribed anastrazole, recommending .5 mg, weekly and if no response, go to .5 mg 2X week. However, I might try .25 mg 2X week and if no improvement, .25 3X week. I don't want to find myself in a downward spiral, physically or mentally.

 

[DixieWrecked]

Saw my urologist today. He prescribed anastrazole, recommending .5 mg, weekly and if no response, go to .5 mg 2X week. However, I might try .25 mg 2X week and if no improvement, .25 3X week. I don't want to find myself in a downward spiral, physically or mentally.

smart man.

Low E2 for me is achy joints and bones. Dry eyes. Tired.