Need for Thyroid Supplementation while on TRT.....

[TRicker]

I center all my meals around protein, try to eat organic, and rarely eat junk food or fast food. Several months ago I tried lowering calories for a trial, and then I tried lowering carbs, and neither approach worked. That's why I started digging into thyroid and cortisol levels. My TRT is usually around 150mg IM (75mg 2x/week), hcg, and anastrozole if I think I need it. I've tried higher and lower doses, hcg and no hcg, AI and no AI.
All these problems started when I went on a 5 month enclomiphene trial for fertility. After my wife got pregnant (by IVF), I went back on trt and nothing is working.

 

[Anonymon]

I center all my meals around protein, try to eat organic, and rarely eat junk food or fast food. Several months ago I tried lowering calories for a trial, and then I tried lowering carbs, and neither approach worked. That's why I started digging into thyroid and cortisol levels. My TRT is usually around 150mg IM (75mg 2x/week), hcg, and anastrozole if I think I need it. I've tried higher and lower doses, hcg and no hcg, AI and no AI.
All these problems started when I went on a 5 month enclomiphene trial for fertility. After my wife got pregnant (by IVF), I went back on trt and nothing is working.

Did you happen to see what your Thyroid/T3 numbers were before taking it, while taking it, and then now? How much HCG did you try and at what dosing pattern?

 

[TRicker]

The thyroid labs were almost the same prior to taking any thyroid meds, and about 5 weeks after ceasing the thyroid meds. I don't have labs for while I was on the T3. I bought the T3 from Reliable Rx, so I wouldn't think the meds were junk.
I've tried hcg from 125iu 2x/week up to 500iu 2x/week. It definitely helped keep my balls filled out and I feel like it may give me a boost, but I'm not positive.

 

[Anonymon]

The thyroid labs were almost the same prior to taking any thyroid meds, and about 5 weeks after ceasing the thyroid meds. I don't have labs for while I was on the T3. I bought the T3 from Reliable Rx, so I wouldn't think the meds were junk.
I've tried hcg from 125iu 2x/week up to 500iu 2x/week. It definitely helped keep my balls filled out and I feel like it may give me a boost, but I'm not positive.

Do you happen to have any digestion issues?

 

[TRicker]

Do you happen to have any digestion issues?

I had a sensitive stomach when I was younger, but it's been really good for the last 5+ years.

 

[Anonymon]

I had a sensitive stomach when I was younger, but it's been really good for the last 5+ years.

That’s a tough spot to be in. If your cortisol is too high at the wrong times, you could try taking Ashwagandha around those times to try to keep it in check and reset your rhyme. If it’s too high when you sleep, your sleep won’t be as productive and you could be missing out on things like dopamine and all else that are amped up when we’re sleeping.

I feel for your position because it sucks testing everything and not knowing where to go from there, but that’s at least an evidenced based thing you could try.

 

[TRicker]

Thanks man, I appreciate it!
At least I'm checking things off the list. It is possible that I'm not eating enough, as earlier this year I was cutting calories, however I'm back to eating normal. Another possibility is that I just need to be on thyroid meds longer, as 6-8 weeks may not be long enough to notice any change.

I also asked this on another thread: Since high RT3 can cause hypothyroid symptoms, and hypothyroidism can cause hypogonadism, can high RT3 cause sexual symptoms in men already on TRT? Is adequate T3 needed for the exogenous testosterone to get into the cells, or something like that?

Other questions: is it possible for stress to cause elevated RT3 without a concurrent rise in cortisol? Or if adrenaline can be high without raised cortisol?

 

[Anonymon]

Thanks man, I appreciate it!
At least I'm checking things off the list. It is possible that I'm not eating enough, as earlier this year I was cutting calories, however I'm back to eating normal. Another possibility is that I just need to be on thyroid meds longer, as 6-8 weeks may not be long enough to notice any change.

I also asked this on another thread: Since high RT3 can cause hypothyroid symptoms, and hypothyroidism can cause hypogonadism, can high RT3 cause sexual symptoms in men already on TRT? Is adequate T3 needed for the exogenous testosterone to get into the cells, or something like that?

Other questions: is it possible for stress to cause elevated RT3 without a concurrent rise in cortisol? Or if adrenaline can be high without raised cortisol?

You could always try changing the timing or dosing of the thyroid meds. I do better with smaller hits of them spread out, which in my case probably means I’m using them for stimulation more than anything else, but I react very differently when I take things in the morning or night or whatever. Thyroid meds also make my handling of macros very differently. Recently tried lowering carbs while on T3 and I felt like death. I know why but I wasn’t expecting to feel that bad. I will say I usually notice thyroid meds very quickly, but that’s also in my case probably because what I’m noticing isn’t the thyroid part.

There’s no data on it but theoretically it could be possible that high RT3 could cause that. Being on T3 makes me feel like what most guys would feel like on the amount of test I’m on. Without that, not so much. Recently tried dropping T3 and it didn’t go well. First day of adding it back, I was horny as hell and all girls were pretty. Part of what test does is effect nutrition partitioning, and if your thyroid hormones are out of whack, you won’t be able to get the right things in and out of the right cells. That’s the naturopathic theory anyway, and there are scattered studies that indirectly support that. T3 also seems to raise 5AR, so more DHT.

Anecdotally, I have low free T3 and am on TRT. If I take T3, in a dose dependent manner I feel like a caricature of a guy on a bunch of test would feel like. T3 itself in my case isn’t kind to my dick and makes it less able to retain blood, but it makes a lot else work as it should. Also seems to require more salt, which goes with that theory since T3 increases sodium potassium pump sites. On T3 with more salt I become more hydrated, off it with more salt I just pee it out and become more dehydrated, which is in line with the mechanisms of it found in studies.

Adrenaline theoretically is higher under stress without cortisol because if it wasn’t you’d have no way to deal with it. I used to feel that way before bed when my cortisol dipped too low. I’d be anxious as hell and unable to sleep all night when you’d normally be your most relaxed and tired. There’s no data on it raising RT3 in the absence of cortisol but it would be raised alongside all conditions that would increase RT3, so theoretically it may be possible.

 

[TRicker]

If I take T3, in a dose dependent manner I feel like a caricature of a guy on a bunch of test would feel like. T3 itself in my case isn’t kind to my dick and makes it less able to retain blood, but it makes a lot else work as it should.

I think you said earlier, to counter this effect you take T4 or NDT, correct?
So basically T3 helps you, but not your dick, but adding T4 or NDT helps counter this effect of T3 on your dick?

I'm trying to pin down if the lack of sensitivity and ED is from high RT3, or from thyroid meds, or neither and I need to adjust my testosterone/estrogen balance.
What's your TRT protocol, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Anonymon]

I think you said earlier, to counter this effect you take T4 or NDT, correct?
So basically T3 helps you, but not your dick, but adding T4 or NDT helps counter this effect of T3 on your dick?

I'm trying to pin down if the lack of sensitivity and ED is from high RT3, or from thyroid meds, or neither and I need to adjust my testosterone/estrogen balance.
What's your TRT protocol, if you don't mind me asking?

T4 helps counter it if I take it at night, yes. In the morning and it’ll be worse. T3 taken at night also makes my dick worse. In the morning and throughout the day it’s less bad. I’m trying to go without T4 because that also makes my hair fall out. I could go without the motivation and other positive aspects of T3, but it brings back debilitating gut issues when I do each time. If it wasn’t for the extreme and rapid full body hair loss I get from T4 at times, I’d be on that and T3 and I’d probably be a happy camper.

I’m on 24mg of test-c in the morning daily with 720iu HCG 3x a week. No AI or anything. Lowering test to 16mg a day did increase penile sensitivity, but also broke my libido and motivation. There’s a chance if I road it out for a while at the lower dose things would normalize, but I doubt it because I didn’t feel bad so much as closer to how I felt before TRT.