Nandrolone Experiences

[Gman86]

DHT from? you convert a max 2-5% of Test into DHT thats 1.26-3.15mg for a week with your dosing, the rest is DHN and it can saturate the AR to the point it can knock off the little DHT you have.

Ive always been a good converter to DHT while on fairly low doses of test, but ur right, probably not a ton of DHT being produced. So maybe DHN is getting the job done better than people think it would. Not really sure. The body is so unbelievably complicated. That’s why I like to go by real wold results, more so than theoretically what people think is going on, or what flawed studies tell us should be going on.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

Ive always been a good converter to DHT while on fairly low doses of test, but ur right, probably not a ton of DHT being produced. So maybe DHN is getting the job done better than people think it would. Not really sure. The body is so unbelievably complicated. That’s why I like to go by real wold results, more so than theoretically what people think is going on, or what flawed studies tell us should be going on.

I agree, I do not want to fret too much over my numbers and see how I feel on protocol changes.
Yes we are talking about single cogwheels in a full working clock.

 

[benaoao]

50mg/kg Nandrolone, 25mg/kg Testosterone. Come on.
To your last sentence. The fat in your diet has nothing to do with the fat circulating in your blood. Triglyceride levels are higher in low fat high carb diets.

animal doses / human equivalent doses. “Come on”.

Triglycerides are higher on a caloric surplus. Lipoproteins are higher on a high fat diet.

The high fat dietary kool aid has people believing that the fat they eat isn’t impairing their health at all starting with blood flow. Well, I’m still waiting for ONE study using high fat diets that isn’t showing inferior blood flow on scans of actual arteries. Not calcium scores not bloodwork. Real imagery of what’s happening in arteries. There’s nothing reassuring on the high fat camp but please go ahead and prove the low fat doctors wrong

 

[andrepohlann]

animal doses / human equivalent doses. “Come on”.

Triglycerides are higher on a caloric surplus. Lipoproteins are higher on a high fat diet.

The high fat dietary kool aid has people believing that the fat they eat isn’t impairing their health at all starting with blood flow. Well, I’m still waiting for ONE study using high fat diets that isn’t showing inferior blood flow on scans of actual arteries. Not calcium scores not bloodwork. Real imagery of what’s happening in arteries. There’s nothing reassuring on the high fat camp but please go ahead and prove the low fat doctors wrong

If you want to learn something you could watch this: nadir mir ali
It is explained in details. I was reading the books of Dean Ornish, Mac Dougal, Esselstyn. I thought once The China Study is the final proof. Your blood flow theory is also widely discussed by Roy Swank. I was very low fat (under 12g/d) high carb for long. What I can tell you, you have a hard time to go fat. So Durianrider is right about it. You can eat fruits and a ton of Sugar and do not get fat, as long as the fat contend of your diet is low, or very low. Add just 20% fat to it (choose the heart healty Olive oil) and you can watch your scinfolds increase in realtime. Trigs were high then (120-150), HDL and LDL both low (See, low lipoproteins). If you believe thats the way to go, do it.

I think it is a childish simplification of a mulitfactorial problem.
And to be honest I would rather die early than to look and speak like Dr. Gregor. No offense against you, I was on your side of the fence for years. And still sometimes think what if they are right.
You have this high carb populations (Tsiname, Papua etc.), well studied, no signs of arhteriosclerosis. The obductions of soldiers in Korean War. Not to mention of Okinawa. And the blue zones. An endless chain of facts that seem to proof a high carb diet is the way to go. And humans do not have claws

Find the failure in it.

 

[benaoao]

I’d totally go on the other “side of the fence” in a heartbeat if SPECT scans of actual living human arteries showed improvements in vascular function / blood flow (not “my” theory, real peer reviewed photographs) upon switching from a high carb diet to a high protein&fat diet. Greger is extremely annoying, but the burden of proof is in the low carb camp...

I’d love well designed controlled trials using that kind of tools. Not some whack risk factors.

also - under 12 g/day is way too low, I’m around 50-70g myself half of which from PUFA

 

[Gman86]

How many carbs are you eating per day you think? And from what sources? Are you trying to eat airbus mantenance, in a deficit or in a surplus? Man you look amazing. Im pretty sure you could inject saline and look great lol.

 

[benaoao]

Thanks! I don’t own any sort of scale, but last I checked at the gym I was 190ish. I’m guessing I’m closer to 200 now.

Carbs = About 20oz of potatoes daily, and then rice till satiation as per below.

Diet main ideas = first and foremost getting lots of what’s essential: aminos, PUFAs, vitamins, minerals. I don’t think much else matters for anabolism: 19nors are ridiculously efficient at keeping nitrogen balance positive.

Soecifics = Avoiding sugar (unless I’m working out) seems to keep me hydrated, avoiding saturated fat seems to prevent my skin&scalp from going greasy.

I don’t know how many calories I’m getting precisely: I track micros via cronometer and reach >100% RDA everywhere eating 2000kcal. Which leaves me hungry at night so I’ll have a pre bed snack, typically steamed rice till satiation. Not a clue how many calories that is. That’s about it!

 

[Gman86]

Alright something I’m noticing more and more as time goes on. I’m an absolute furnace which is quite uncomfortable and is only helped by not eating.

I’m wondering if it is because of nandrolone’s very androgenic effect on the RAAS? Kidneys don’t have much 5ar. Back when I tried to run up to 900 mg/wk Taeian style, my eGFR was shot down to 60-something (with E2@18 and Prolactin @5 @Gman86 - I wasn’t in NY back in those days)

Theoretically speaking I’m having an issue with Nandrolone (and testosterone) being dependent on 5ar (or the lack thereof) to remain a “healthy” androgen. I think it definitely prompts me to move on to trestolone which is at least more predictable since 5ar doesn’t touch it.

Your E2 of 18 lines up perfectly with other E2 levels I’ve seen on nandrolone only. I’ve seen two people on 300mg/ week of deca only. One had an E2 of 5, the other had an E2 of 6. 900mg is obv 3x the amount of deca they were using. Multiple their E2 by 3 and it equals right around 18. Just goes to show that deca aromatizes way less than 20% of testosterone. Your low prolactin level on the 900mg isn’t surprising either. Nandrolone converts extremely little into prolactin.

 

[DS3]

Alright something I’m noticing more and more as time goes on. I’m an absolute furnace which is quite uncomfortable and is only helped by not eating.

I’m wondering if it is because of nandrolone’s very androgenic effect on the RAAS? Kidneys don’t have much 5ar. Back when I tried to run up to 900 mg/wk Taeian style, my eGFR was shot down to 60-something (with E2@18 and Prolactin @5 @Gman86 - I wasn’t in NY back in those days)

Theoretically speaking I’m having an issue with Nandrolone (and testosterone) being dependent on 5ar (or the lack thereof) to remain a “healthy” androgen. I think it definitely prompts me to move on to trestolone which is at least more predictable since 5ar doesn’t touch it.

Same experience with me. No detailed explanation as to why, but I am significantly hotter feeling all the time when I take nandrolone.

 

[gaz7718]

Glad it is going well for you. Keep us updated on your progress.

Now been off Deca for 3 weeks and towards the 2nd half of the cycle had reduced to 60mg per week.

changes are minimal at this stage compared to when I was using deca. I actually stayed on for several months in the end but never managed to get bloods done during this time initially due to just being too busy then due to Covid from March.
My left shoulder impingement has definitely got worse in the past few weeks which might be just coincidence.

general well-being seems fine still but did feels bit more ‘up’ when on deca. Libido no change but erections seem a bit easier albeit nothing significant.

overall was pleased with cycle but disappointed I didn’t get to see blood test result as would have been interested to see impact on lipids.

Think I’ll run another cycle at 90mg with bloods after 4 weeks but will give it a break for at least another 3 weeks before doing this so I can get a blood test result as soon as the local centre reopens for routine blood taking.

 

[Gman86]

Now been off Deca for 3 weeks and towards the 2nd half of the cycle had reduced to 60mg per week.

changes are minimal at this stage compared to when I was using deca. I actually stayed on for several months in the end but never managed to get bloods done during this time initially due to just being too busy then due to Covid from March.
My left shoulder impingement has definitely got worse in the past few weeks which might be just coincidence.

general well-being seems fine still but did feels bit more ‘up’ when on deca. Libido no change but erections seem a bit easier albeit nothing significant.

overall was pleased with cycle but disappointed I didn’t get to see blood test result as would have been interested to see impact on lipids.

Think I’ll run another cycle at 90mg with bloods after 4 weeks but will give it a break for at least another 3 weeks before doing this so I can get a blood test result as soon as the local centre reopens for routine blood taking.

Here is my lipid panel after being on deca 200mg/ week and test 63mg/ week, for about 3 months now. Also went to a mostly carnivore diet about a month and a half ago. Doesn’t seem like deca has negatively effected my lipids at all. I prefer LDL to be on the high side, and HDL is around where it usually is, maybe slightly higher.

 

[gaz7718]

Good that is isn’t much different given you’ve been on 200mg a week. Must be seeing some decent physical development ?
Why do you want LDL to be where it is?
I’m concerned about trying to keep a lid on LDL Whilst using deca and keep bp in the normal ranges, especially the systolic. I’m just on the cusp at 135

 

[Gman86]

Good that is isn’t much different given you’ve been on 200mg a week. Must be seeing some decent physical development ?
Why do you want LDL to be where it is?
I’m concerned about trying to keep a lid on LDL Whilst using deca and keep bp in the normal ranges, especially the systolic. I’m just on the cusp at 135

Unfortunately not really in regards to muscle development. When I switched to a deca based protocol, is when this whole covid thing happened, and the gyms closed. Only thing I’ve had to workout with are two 10lb dumbbells. Cannot wait to get back into the gym!!

LDL is very necessary for optimal health. Here’s an article that briefly explains why. I obv don’t want it through the roof, just like most markers of health, I don’t want it too high or too low. But I personally believe that the top end of the range for LDL is too low. For optimal health, I prefer it close to where mine is now. Triglycerides are what u want to fear being too high. The article also goes over briefly why u want to keep triglycerides on the lower end of the range. Which I know goes against having everything in balance, but that’s why I said u want “most” markers of health not too high, and not too low. Insulin is another marker that u want as low as possible, for example.

LDL is Your Friend - David Perlmutter M.D.

LDL plays a particularly important role in brain health and function. In fact, low levels of LDL might well be associated with compromise of brain tissue.

www.drperlmutter.com

And in regards to blood pressure, mine has been holding steady on average 110/60. A good amount of time I’m running a tiny bit lower. When I first started the deca base, I had a physical and BP was around 120/80. But shortly after that I switched my diet to a mostly carnivore diet, and very quickly after that BP dropped down to around 100/60 on average. I’m a nurse, and am always around BP machines. So been checking it everyday for months now, usually a few times a day to see if there’s any changes throughout the day. Which there isn’t. Pulse is the only thing that changes. Pulse in the morning is lower, and goes up about 10 beats per minute for the majority of the rest of the day. Here’s a video I watched a while back that I believe really helped with BP. Been using Celtic salt ever since. Magnesium is my other secret weapon, in regards to BP. I only drink mineral water out of glass bottles. It’s seltzer water. I drink 2 a day. So why I’ll do when I open each one is put a little Celtic salt in, and some liquid magnesium. I’ve been using Remag for years.

 

[gaz7718]

Shame about the gyms. I bought a few heavy kettlebells at highly inflated prices but it’s been enough to see me through the Covid period and will continue to do so until July or whenever the gyms here reopen.

great links. Diet is particularly challenging for me at present due to IBS and trying to keep to a low FODMAP diet. Unfortunately nearly everything I like is on the bad list .

 

[Gman86]

Shame about the gyms. I bought a few heavy kettlebells at highly inflated prices but it’s been enough to see me through the Covid period and will continue to do so until July or whenever the gyms here reopen.

great links. Diet is particularly challenging for me at present due to IBS and trying to keep to a low FODMAP diet. Unfortunately nearly everything I like is on the bad list .

The best diet that I’ve seen, by far, for IBS is the carnivore diet. I’ve never seen so many people with chronic digestion problems like IBS and Crohn’s disease get completely cured switching to carnivore. I personally don’t care what diet everyone likes to eat. My mentality is I just want to be happy in life, and I want everyone else to be as happy as possible. I keep it simple. So I don’t try to push my beliefs on anyone. I just give them the information that I’ve learned, and they can do whatever they want with it. I’ve researched every diet there is over the years, and I’ve just never seen so many people reporting that after 20 years+ of having things like IBS, they finally got rid of it by switching to carnivore. So like I mentioned before, u can do whatever u want with that information. No offense to me if u look into it further or u don’t. But the best advice I can give u is, at least do some research into it, and see if it’s something that interests u. I’ve lost count of how many people I’ve seen report that they’ve cured long term IBS through carnivore, so I don’t see why u can’t be one of those success stories.

 

[gaz7718]

Certainly worth a look and actually is pretty consistent with a low FODMAP diet which is basically a wide range of carbs that you need to remove from your diet.

 

[DS3]

Now been off Deca for 3 weeks and towards the 2nd half of the cycle had reduced to 60mg per week.

changes are minimal at this stage compared to when I was using deca. I actually stayed on for several months in the end but never managed to get bloods done during this time initially due to just being too busy then due to Covid from March.
My left shoulder impingement has definitely got worse in the past few weeks which might be just coincidence.

general well-being seems fine still but did feels bit more ‘up’ when on deca. Libido no change but erections seem a bit easier albeit nothing significant.

overall was pleased with cycle but disappointed I didn’t get to see blood test result as would have been interested to see impact on lipids.

Think I’ll run another cycle at 90mg with bloods after 4 weeks but will give it a break for at least another 3 weeks before doing this so I can get a blood test result as soon as the local centre reopens for routine blood taking.

Thanks for the update. Glad things went well for you!

 

[DS3]

The best diet that I’ve seen, by far, for IBS is the carnivore diet. I’ve never seen so many people with chronic digestion problems like IBS and Crohn’s disease get completely cured switching to carnivore. I personally don’t care what diet everyone likes to eat. My mentality is I just want to be happy in life, and I want everyone else to be as happy as possible. I keep it simple. So I don’t try to push my beliefs on anyone. I just give them the information that I’ve learned, and they can do whatever they want with it. I’ve researched every diet there is over the years, and I’ve just never seen so many people reporting that after 20 years+ of having things like IBS, they finally got rid of it by switching to carnivore. So like I mentioned before, u can do whatever u want with that information. No offense to me if u look into it further or u don’t. But the best advice I can give u is, at least do some research into it, and see if it’s something that interests u. I’ve lost count of how many people I’ve seen report that they’ve cured long term IBS through carnivore, so I don’t see why u can’t be one of those success stories.

Problem with correlating the carnivore diet with decreased IBS symptoms is the elimination that goes along with the switch. By eliminating breads, pastas, anything that is a grain, etc. you eliminate many of the foods that are highly correlated with GI issues. So the correlation to eating a ton of meat and decreased IBS is more about elimination of other foods that are increasing symptoms not about the health benefits of eating a lot of meat.

 

[Gman86]

Problem with correlating the carnivore diet with decreased IBS symptoms is the elimination that goes along with the switch. By eliminating breads, pastas, anything that is a grain, etc. you eliminate many of the foods that are highly correlated with GI issues. So the correlation to eating a ton of meat and decreased IBS is more about elimination of other foods that are increasing symptoms not about the health benefits of eating a lot of meat.

EXACTLY! U nailed it. It’s mostly about eliminating the foods that are irritating the gut, more so than what ur still eating, on carnivore. People have no idea about so many “healthy” foods, that are doing quite a bit of damage to the body, and actually taking away from the good foods they’re eating.

But dont underestimate the power that getting all the vitamins and minerals the body needs can have. The body is an amazing machine when u give it what it needs, without anything it doesn’t. The carnivore diet is so successful at optimizing health mainly due to the elimination of certain foods, but a lot of the benefits also come from getting all the vitamins and minerals the body requires, in the proper amounts, in the proper forms, and without any of the anti-nutrients.

 

[JimGainz]

Be cautious with that LDL study. I showed it to my cardiologist buddy and he laughed - citing that clinical evidence shows that LDL should be under 70. He puts people on low dose statins with an ldl of 100. As he put it most heart disease is ldl driven.