My first experience with hcg was heaven. Problem i can't replicate first experience

[aneuman]

What dose? Have you tried a different injection frequency?



Have you tried a dose lower than 200iu/day?

I think there's a study showing that 250iu EoD (= 125iu/day) was enough to regain 93% testicular function.

Yes, I tried 100 IU a day. No much change really. I'm on 200 IU a day based on a study that compared a one time 1500 IU shot vs 300 IU every day for 5 days (both 1500 IU a week) and noticed that 1500 IU at once double testosterone but incurred in a huge spike of estradiol and progesterone, 300 IU every day increase testosterone the same amount without the peak o E2 or Prog.

I have noticed perhaps some mild improvements. One huge benefits has been with LUTS, which has improved noticeably. Maybe it's just placebo. Who knows.

200iu/day on top of some exogenous Test might be too high for some men to get away with

I'm not on TRT, so no exogenous T. Just HCG. TRT might be my next stop.

 

[rimster]

What dose? Have you tried a different injection frequency?



Have you tried a dose lower than 200iu/day?

I think there's a study showing that 250iu EoD (= 125iu/day) was enough to regain 93% testicular function. 200iu/day on top of some exogenous Test might be too high for some men to get away with

I tried 150 a day. Gives me side effects

 

[rimster]

Yes, I tried 100 IU a day. No much change really. I'm on 200 IU a day based on a study that compared a one time 1500 IU shot vs 300 IU every day for 5 days (both 1500 IU a week) and noticed that 1500 IU at once double testosterone but incurred in a huge spike of estradiol and progesterone, 300 IU every day increase testosterone the same amount without the peak o E2 or Prog.

I have noticed perhaps some mild improvements. One huge benefits has been with LUTS, which has improved noticeably. Maybe it's just placebo. Who knows.


I'm not on TRT, so no exogenous T. Just HCG. TRT might be my next stop.

Did you ever try taking a break from hcg for ten -14 days to see if you'll regain the honeymoon phase? A freind told me it worked for him . Also what's luts?

 

[Phil Goodman]

It’s interesting that the HCG would’ve had such a profound impact after only 2 days of initial injection and also that it was so short-lived. One thing to accept, as was pointed out earleir, is that you can’t chase constant happiness or being able to have blissful sex every single time. With that being said you should be able to reach a state where you can enjoy daily sex or at least multiple times/week. I would start with that goal and then see what makes things better or worse for you. Have you tested DHEA levels? There could be lots of different variables at play. Starting HCG definitely improved sensitivity and orgasms for me. After a few months there was a random(or at least I’ve never pinned down the cause) week where my orgasms were insanely leg-shaking intense and lasted about twice as long. A few days later it went back to just being good-great orgasms. I have no idea why. I’d say the thing would be to address one thing at a time, and it makes sense imho to address the ED. Being rock hard puts you in such a better mental state and can resolve a good bit of issues. Once that is consistent then move on to experimenting with different things to address sensitivity and orgasms. Perhaps you need to reduce frequency of injections so you care getting more of a hormonal ride. For me personally I ended at test and HCG both administered 3x/week(on different days) and daily low dose DHEA. I’ve also noticed that pregnenolone throws everything off for me, particularly sexually so if you have that in your current protocol perhaps try dropping it for a few weeks to see what changes. It’s gonna be an experiment and everyone is different, but as I said above start with trying to fix major issues one at a time instead of trying to find one variable that will magically make everything awesome.

 

[rimster]

It’s interesting that the HCG would’ve had such a profound impact after only 2 days of initial injection and also that it was so short-lived. One thing to accept, as was pointed out earleir, is that you can’t chase constant happiness or being able to have blissful sex every single time. With that being said you should be able to reach a state where you can enjoy daily sex or at least multiple times/week. I would start with that goal and then see what makes things better or worse for you. Have you tested DHEA levels? There could be lots of different variables at play. Starting HCG definitely improved sensitivity and orgasms for me. After a few months there was a random(or at least I’ve never pinned down the cause) week where my orgasms were insanely leg-shaking intense and lasted about twice as long. A few days later it went back to just being good-great orgasms. I have no idea why. I’d say the thing would be to address one thing at a time, and it makes sense imho to address the ED. Being rock hard puts you in such a better mental state and can resolve a good bit of issues. Once that is consistent then move on to experimenting with different things to address sensitivity and orgasms. Perhaps you need to reduce frequency of injections so you care getting more of a hormonal ride. For me personally I ended at test and HCG both administered 3x/week(on different days) and daily low dose DHEA. I’ve also noticed that pregnenolone throws everything off for me, particularly sexually so if you have that in your current protocol perhaps try dropping it for a few weeks to see what changes. It’s gonna be an experiment and everyone is different, but as I said above start with trying to fix major issues one at a time instead of trying to find one variable that will magically make everything awesome.

Thank you! I have never experienced anything such pleasure like that in my life so i know it wasn't a placebo. I wish it would continue. As for injection frequency i tried and if I don't do daily i immediately feel badly fatigued( sounds weird but i tried couple if times) so for me i need daily to feel normal. As for dhea my levels were normal. Is there a point of trying it anyway if levels were normal? I don't take anything else.

 

[aneuman]

Did you ever try taking a break from hcg for ten -14 days to see if you'll regain the honeymoon phase? A freind told me it worked for him . Also what's luts?

Yep, 14 days, 30 days. 6 months. The honeymoon, like in marriage, is only one (at least with the same woman)

LUTS - Lower Urinary Tract Symptoms

 

[rimster]

Yep, 14 days, 30 days. 6 months. The honeymoon, like in marriage, is only one (at least with the same woman)

LUTS - Lower Urinary Tract Symptoms

Lol oh man!

 

[Jerajera]

Yes, I tried 100 IU a day. No much change really. I'm on 200 IU a day based on a study that compared a one time 1500 IU shot vs 300 IU every day for 5 days (both 1500 IU a week) and noticed that 1500 IU at once double testosterone but incurred in a huge spike of estradiol and progesterone, 300 IU every day increase testosterone the same amount without the peak o E2 or Prog.

If we're talking about the same study from 1984, the conclusion was that it was the 300iu/day for 5 days that lead to double the Testosterone levels:


Smals AG, Pieters GF, Boers GH, Raemakers JM, Hermus AR, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW. Differential effect of single high dose and divided small dose administration of human chorionic gonadotropin on Leydig cell steroidogenic desensitization. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1984 Feb;58(2):327-31.

This study compared the effect of a single high dose of hCG (1500 IU) with that of the same dose administered in multiple small doses (300 IU, once daily for 5 days) on Leydig cell steroidogenesis. Administration of a single high dose of hCG to seven healthy men raised the mean plasma testosterone (T) level to peak levels 2.1 ± 0.2 (SEM) x the baseline value at 48 h. Thereafter plasma T decreased to below normal (0.7 ± 0.1 x baseline) 7 days after the injection. The mean 17-hydroxyprogesterone (17-OHP) level peaked at 24 h (2.5 ± 0.2 x baseline) and then also fell to a nadir value of 0.6 ± 0.2 x baseline on day 7. Reflecting the early accumulation of 17-OHP over T, the 17 OHP/T ratio reached its maximum (1.6 ± 0.1 x baseline) at 24 h at the same time when plasma estradiol [(E2) 4.4 ± 0.6 x baseline] and the ratio E2/T (2.7 ± 0.3 x baseline) achieved their maximal values. Administration of 1500 IU hCG in five divided doses of 300 IU daily increased the mean plasma T levels to peak value of 2.1 ± 0.2 x baseline at 5 days and the levels remained elevated thereafter. The response of T as reflected by the area under the curve was almost twice as great as in the single dose study (2844 ± 360 vs. 1647 ± 214). In contrast to the single high dose experiment, mean plasma 17-OHP levels in the divided dose protocol did not peak at 24 h but only gradually increased. As the increase of T exceeded the 17-OHP increase at almost all time intervals, no accumulation of 17-OHP over T occurred as in the single dose experiment. Instead the 17-OHP/ T ratio fell to a nadir value of 0.6± 0.1 x baseline on day 7. The initial E2 peak was absent in the divided dose protocol and the E2/T ratio only marginally increased. Considering both experiments together a close relation was found between the hCGinduced increases in E2 and 17-OHP (r = +0.88, P < 0.001), as well as the ratio 17 OHP/T (r = +0.64, P< 0.02). Multiple small dose hCG administration in contrast to a single high dose does not desensitize but rather enhances Leydig cell steroidogenesis, probably by preventing the early accumulation of E2 and thereby the steroidogenic enzyme suppression which occurs after massive doses of hCG.


Their conclusion (last paragraph) about sensitization vs desensitzation of Leydig cells, is very interesting and is what is leading me to try hcg on daily injections.

I'm not on TRT, so no exogenous T. Just HCG. TRT might be my next stop.

The combination might work for you. I don't know what your Free T levels get to on hCG but it's possible your testicles can't produce enough regardless of how much hCG you take.

 

[DaytonaJonah]

It’s interesting that the HCG would’ve had such a profound impact after only 2 days of initial injection and also that it was so short-lived. One thing to accept, as was pointed out earleir, is that you can’t chase constant happiness or being able to have blissful sex every single time. With that being said you should be able to reach a state where you can enjoy daily sex or at least multiple times/week. I would start with that goal and then see what makes things better or worse for you. Have you tested DHEA levels? There could be lots of different variables at play. Starting HCG definitely improved sensitivity and orgasms for me. After a few months there was a random(or at least I’ve never pinned down the cause) week where my orgasms were insanely leg-shaking intense and lasted about twice as long. A few days later it went back to just being good-great orgasms. I have no idea why. I’d say the thing would be to address one thing at a time, and it makes sense imho to address the ED. Being rock hard puts you in such a better mental state and can resolve a good bit of issues. Once that is consistent then move on to experimenting with different things to address sensitivity and orgasms. Perhaps you need to reduce frequency of injections so you care getting more of a hormonal ride. For me personally I ended at test and HCG both administered 3x/week(on different days) and daily low dose DHEA. I’ve also noticed that pregnenolone throws everything off for me, particularly sexually so if you have that in your current protocol perhaps try dropping it for a few weeks to see what changes. It’s gonna be an experiment and everyone is different, but as I said above start with trying to fix major issues one at a time instead of trying to find one variable that will magically make everything awesome.

My current experience(minus DHEA) has been similar to yours. I'm in a good spot now with only 55mg. of T per week split into 2 pins together with 333IU hCG pinned EOD. The substantially lower weekly T amount is much better tolerated. I miss the muscle gains, but I'm not "stimmed" all the time. Experimented with pregnenolone and found the same thing, it threw things off and seemed to give me what felt like excess estrogen symptoms.

What daily amount of DHEA are you taking? What are the changes/benefits you've felt?

 

[aneuman]

If we're talking about the same study from 1984, the conclusion was that it was the 300iu/day for 5 days that lead to double the Testosterone levels:


Smals AG, Pieters GF, Boers GH, Raemakers JM, Hermus AR, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW. Differential effect of single high dose and divided small dose administration of human chorionic gonadotropin on Leydig cell steroidogenic desensitization. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1984 Feb;58(2):327-31.

This study compared the effect of a single high dose of hCG (1500 IU) with that of the same dose administered in multiple small doses (300 IU, once daily for 5 days) on Leydig cell steroidogenesis. Administration of a single high dose of hCG to seven healthy men raised the mean plasma testosterone (T) level to peak levels 2.1 ± 0.2 (SEM) x the baseline value at 48 h. Thereafter plasma T decreased to below normal (0.7 ± 0.1 x baseline) 7 days after the injection. The mean 17-hydroxyprogesterone (17-OHP) level peaked at 24 h (2.5 ± 0.2 x baseline) and then also fell to a nadir value of 0.6 ± 0.2 x baseline on day 7. Reflecting the early accumulation of 17-OHP over T, the 17 OHP/T ratio reached its maximum (1.6 ± 0.1 x baseline) at 24 h at the same time when plasma estradiol [(E2) 4.4 ± 0.6 x baseline] and the ratio E2/T (2.7 ± 0.3 x baseline) achieved their maximal values. Administration of 1500 IU hCG in five divided doses of 300 IU daily increased the mean plasma T levels to peak value of 2.1 ± 0.2 x baseline at 5 days and the levels remained elevated thereafter. The response of T as reflected by the area under the curve was almost twice as great as in the single dose study (2844 ± 360 vs. 1647 ± 214). In contrast to the single high dose experiment, mean plasma 17-OHP levels in the divided dose protocol did not peak at 24 h but only gradually increased. As the increase of T exceeded the 17-OHP increase at almost all time intervals, no accumulation of 17-OHP over T occurred as in the single dose experiment. Instead the 17-OHP/ T ratio fell to a nadir value of 0.6± 0.1 x baseline on day 7. The initial E2 peak was absent in the divided dose protocol and the E2/T ratio only marginally increased. Considering both experiments together a close relation was found between the hCGinduced increases in E2 and 17-OHP (r = +0.88, P < 0.001), as well as the ratio 17 OHP/T (r = +0.64, P< 0.02). Multiple small dose hCG administration in contrast to a single high dose does not desensitize but rather enhances Leydig cell steroidogenesis, probably by preventing the early accumulation of E2 and thereby the steroidogenic enzyme suppression which occurs after massive doses of hCG.

Exactly. That's the one I referred to.

Their conclusion (last paragraph) about sensitization vs desensitzation of Leydig cells, is very interesting and is what is leading me to try hcg on daily injections.

"Multiple small dose hCG administration in contrast to a single high dose does not desensitize but rather enhances Leydig cell steroidogenesis"

And that's the reason I'm doing it too. My reasoning was: if they consider 300 IU every day a low dose, with 200 IU every day I should be on the safe side.

The combination might work for you. I don't know what your Free T levels
get to on hCG but it's possible your testicles can't produce enough regardless of how much hCG you take.

My total T is 745 with 300 IU 4 times a week, my free T is 6.9, which is low. SHBG is around 50 and E2 27. So it seems my testicles are working alright. As a matter of fact on Enclomiphene 3 times a week my T goes to 888, but free T is always on the low side, regardless of treatment (so far Enclomiphene, HCG both alone or in combination). Enclomiphene 12.5 mg every day puts me at 1183 ng/dL but free T never goes above 12 ng/dL

My next visit to the doctor I'll discuss adding T.Cyp and see how it goes.

 

[Phil Goodman]

My current experience(minus DHEA) has been similar to yours. I'm in a good spot now with only 55mg. of T per week split into 2 pins together with 333IU hCG pinned EOD. The substantially lower weekly T amount is much better tolerated. I miss the muscle gains, but I'm not "stimmed" all the time. Experimented with pregnenolone and found the same thing, it threw things off and seemed to give me what felt like excess estrogen symptoms.

What daily amount of DHEA are you taking? What are the changes/benefits you've felt?

My protocol for almost a year now that has been great is about 34 mg test 3x/week(for about 100 mg/week) and 250 ius hcg 3x/week(750 total). I also incorporate 12.5 mg DHEA daily. I have 25 mg dissolvable tablets daily is too much for me. For me it’s similar to test in that it helps with energy and possibly/probably mental clarity. It’s also quite possible that it helps with sex. I think it also takes some of the edge off that sometimes comes along with trt. We all know the feeling of being a little too amped up (even at low doses) and DHEA helps smooth the edges. Too much DHEA can compound the problem though and result in being too amped, poorer sleep quality, and other issues. I know that DHEA is the hormone that sees the sharpest drop as people go through their 30’s and 40’s and I think for most people it could be beneficial to supplement. I also hypothesize that if you bring up test and the other hormones that go along with it then bringing up DHEA along with it creates a more optimal environment in your body.

 

[DaytonaJonah]

My protocol for almost a year now that has been great is about 34 mg test 3x/week(for about 100 mg/week) and 250 ius hcg 3x/week(750 total). I also incorporate 12.5 mg DHEA daily. I have 25 mg dissolvable tablets daily is too much for me. For me it’s similar to test in that it helps with energy and possibly/probably mental clarity. It’s also quite possible that it helps with sex. I think it also takes some of the edge off that sometimes comes along with trt. We all know the feeling of being a little too amped up (even at low doses) and DHEA helps smooth the edges. Too much DHEA can compound the problem though and result in being too amped, poorer sleep quality, and other issues. I know that DHEA is the hormone that sees the sharpest drop as people go through their 30’s and 40’s and I think for most people it could be beneficial to supplement. I also hypothesize that if you bring up test and the other hormones that go along with it then bringing up DHEA along with it creates a more optimal environment in your body.

I plan to add DHEA to my current setup and go slow to see how things go. Thanks for the input.

 

[Smokey]

Changing the protocol has always helped me relive the honeymoon phase. For example, you could change your twice weekly HCG dosing to every day or EOD, or you could go for a larger once weekly shot for a period of time.

I have always found that rekindling the honeymoon via a protocol change has been a necessary strategy for me to continue doing OKAY on TRT.

I second this. Works for me as well. Even changing the dosages (a little up and a little down for 6 week time periods) and frequency on Injectable T helps too

 

[anestizzle]

My first time using hcg the intimate experience two days later was nothing like i can ever remember. Sensitivity and hardness was unmatched since my early twenties and i don't even remember it being that good back then. However it was a one time experience and it never happened again. On hcg twice a week and daily test 16 mg. Having problems with sensitivity and ed issues. Anyone have a similar experience and know how to replicate it? Should i stop it for two weeks and then try again? Thanks in advance

 

[anestizzle]

My first time using hcg the intimate experience two days later was nothing like i can ever remember. Sensitivity and hardness was unmatched since my early twenties and i don't even remember it being that good back then. However it was a one time experience and it never happened again. On hcg twice a week and daily test 16 mg. Having problems with sensitivity and ed issues. Anyone have a similar experience and know how to replicate it? Should i stop it for two weeks and then try again? Thanks in advance

HCG has always been a tricky one for me. Without it my sensitivity is way down and I can barely finish without feeling like I ran a marathon. If I take too much I start to get depressed and ED. The sweet spot is amazing I agree so I often titrate the amount according to how I feel. I currently take 100 IU daily

 

[rimster]

HCG has always been a tricky one for me. Without it my sensitivity is way down and I can barely finish without feeling like I ran a marathon. If I take too much I start to get depressed and ED. The sweet spot is amazing I agree so I often titrate the amount according to how I feel. I currently take 100 IU daily

I get side effects even at 100 iu every third day. Side effects like ed for that day of injection. Do you think if i lower to 75 iu will it help?

 

[joemorgan]

My first time using hcg the intimate experience two days later was nothing like i can ever remember. Sensitivity and hardness was unmatched since my early twenties and i don't even remember it being that good back then. However it was a one time experience and it never happened again. On hcg twice a week and daily test 16 mg. Having problems with sensitivity and ed issues. Anyone have a similar experience and know how to replicate it? Should i stop it for two weeks and then try again? Thanks in advance

Hello
If you are older, you could use the HCG for about 6 weeks annually to offset testicular shrinkage and innate inactivity. In the meantime you need regular testosterone replacement. I use cream scrotally daily- 100mg. My levels run about 800 which is great for me. I am 79 this month and have been on T for 6 years.

 

[joemorgan]

My first time using hcg the intimate experience two days later was nothing like i can ever remember. Sensitivity and hardness was unmatched since my early twenties and i don't even remember it being that good back then. However it was a one time experience and it never happened again. On hcg twice a week and daily test 16 mg. Having problems with sensitivity and ed issues. Anyone have a similar experience and know how to replicate it? Should i stop it for two weeks and then try again? Thanks in advance

When I use the HCG I use 600-700 iu twice a week for 6 weeks.

 

[rimster]

When I use the HCG I use 600-700 iu twice a week for 6 weeks.

Wow good for you. Six weeks a year is enough annually for you. I am in testosterone since last year due to a very low t of 150. Unlike you however I'm only 37 years old and i need the hcg to maintain fertility. Thanks

 

[DS3]

HCG has always been a tricky one for me. Without it my sensitivity is way down and I can barely finish without feeling like I ran a marathon. If I take too much I start to get depressed and ED. The sweet spot is amazing I agree so I often titrate the amount according to how I feel. I currently take 100 IU daily

^^ Me 100%