MWF pinning but feel unstable Sunday/Monday

[S1W]

Some on here are also on T-Nation, where there's a doctor who prescribes weekly T injections and he cited, with labs, of men with low SHBG, some in single digits IIRC, who are doing well on weekly injections between 140 to 200 mg.

IMO, looking at SHBG in isolation skews the larger clinical picture and potentially can lead to protocol changes that might prove to be counterproductive, i.e. dailies or EOD.

I'd be interested in hearing more about this. Just reading what you wrote above, it looks like 140mg/wk is his low end dose for low SHBG guys. Is that correct?

Where can I read more about this?

Also @Charliebizz

 

[Charliebizz]

I'd be interested in hearing more about this. Just reading what you wrote above, it looks like 140mg/wk is his low end dose for low SHBG guys. Is that correct?

Where can I read more about this?

Also @Charliebizz

This is the thread. It’s around post 33

Testosterone Cream - Pros & Cons

Thanks for posting this, it’s very interesting to see even just at a glance the variety of protocols people feel good on. I feel like it almost immediately gave me a clearer big picture understanding of the whole field. If you don’t mind, I’m curious about a few things: Do you have any old...

forums.t-nation.com

 

[Cyclingislife]

Hi Guys hope you all had a nice Xmas and New Years

I have been injecting 25mg of Test cyp MWF(75mg). The first week I thought I had won the lottery. Sex drive was great(still is)transient feelings of euphoria and a strong sense of virility. I have gained 8 pounds of weight. And a good strength gain from just 1 home gym session per week. Was very impressed with the speed this happened, my body just seemed to swell up overnight.

At around 4 weeks in things started to fade. Occasionally during the week I am awoken with itchy heavy feet that felt somewhat pressurised, an elevated heartbeat, and upon inspection in the mirror, bloodshot eyes. Upon waking again in the morning the whites of my eyes are clear again.

Sundays and Mondays is when I feel a noticable shift in things. Bouts of mood imbalance, fatigue, achiness, slight anxiety and poor sleep. Things tend to come right by Tuesday again.

Overall positives from TRT so far are decent sex drive(before TRT my interest spiked maybe once per week). Infact I think if it were any higher it may bother me and especially the wife ha. Improved digestion, anxiety overall has lessoned. And energy levels for the mist part are better. I also feel more open to opening up to the wife

Does all this sound like a somewhat normal TRT start up right of passage, that one must adhere to for a few months? Or based on my testimony, is a tweak to this protocol necessary?

With My limited knowledge my thoughts were to possibly look at daily shots to combat the slump.

Thanks JayD 45

#Will be getting bloods this week then post once results are in

I’m have similar SHBG, here’s my two cents. I inject 25mg EOD shallow IM in my shoulders, 1/2 inch needle, 27 gauge. no hcg. I’ve found over two years, this is the best dose. I’ve tried daily, subq, etc. low SHBG means you process the Testosterone quickly, essentially you pass it out in your urine. Test your labs 24hours after a shot & at trough right before your next shot. This shows you your peak & trough. My peak free testosterone is around 250, trough is 200. Free T is all that matters, most guys don’t feel good unless over 200. I’ve also run a protocol with & without anastrozole. I’ve found when I don’t use anastrozole & let me E2 climb to 50-60 I feel great, super lean, great sex drive. I’ve also raised my shbg by letting the E2 climb. However, you can’t let it go too high. When I notice I feel like my E2 is too high (tired) I will take .25, yes that’s a quarter of a 1mg pill anastrozole every 7-10 days for 2 weeks then I stop. I never take more than that. Using Too much anastrozole is the #1 misused, overdosed drug by people on trt.
I also notice with low shbg, intermittent fasting is very effective, I do 16/8, only eat between noon to 8pm. Hope this helps!

 

[JayD]

I’m have similar SHBG, here’s my two cents. I inject 25mg EOD shallow IM in my shoulders, 1/2 inch needle, 27 gauge. no hcg. I’ve found over two years, this is the best dose. I’ve tried daily, subq, etc. low SHBG means you process the Testosterone quickly, essentially you pass it out in your urine. Test your labs 24hours after a shot & at trough right before your next shot. This shows you your peak & trough. My peak free testosterone is around 250, trough is 200. Free T is all that matters, most guys don’t feel good unless over 200. I’ve also run a protocol with & without anastrozole. I’ve found when I don’t use anastrozole & let me E2 climb to 50-60 I feel great, super lean, great sex drive. I’ve also raised my shbg by letting the E2 climb. However, you can’t let it go too high. When I notice I feel like my E2 is too high (tired) I will take .25, yes that’s a quarter of a 1mg pill anastrozole every 7-10 days for 2 weeks then I stop. I never take more than that. Using Too much anastrozole is the #1 misused, overdosed drug by people on trt.
I also notice with low shbg, intermittent fasting is very effective, I do 16/8, only eat between noon to 8pm. Hope this helps!

Hey thanks for this info. Do you think my estrogen is high all things considered? I now have low libido, problem staying hard and taking forever to ejaculate. I didn't have this before TRT. Will this simply resolve itself in time as I'm only 6 weeks in? The first 3 weeks my sex drive was unbelievable. I also do 16/8 fast last 4 years. Still have 25-28% body fat. Body shape is thin bones, skinny arms, legs and stubborn belly fat. All guys in my family have same body shape. Im doing MWF 25mg(75mg total)

 

[Cyclingislife]

Not sure. I’m not familiar with those labs. You need a sensitive Estradiol test to evaluate estrogen. AI’s are very, very tricky, I would adjust my dose before even considering an AI. Also, Everyone on this site will tell you six weeks on TRT is nothing. Being on trt takes a time commitment, patience, etc and guaranteed you will have Ups and down until you get dialed in. You may get frustrated & impatient but it’s a journey. I went on and off a few times until I figured it out. Most doctors have no idea what their doing. You will not feel awesome every day even when you’re dialed in but I shoot for 80-90% of the time. Initially, it takes at least 3-6 months for your body to settle in. It took me over a year to figure it out. I didn’t start getting lean until year two. I think I would start at 18-20mg EOD and see what happens. It’s much easier to start low then gradually increase if needed. Give any change in dose/protocol at least 6-8 weeks to work. The worst thing you can do is start changing everything week to week, that’s a recipe for disaster.

The best advice I can give you is to keep a journal every day. I learned this from a consult I did with a true TRT doc whose been doing this thirty years. Write down your dose and most importantly write down how you feel, sex drive, side effects, etc. You will see patterns develop & that’s how you find your sweet spot. For most people if you keep your dose low enough you don’t need an AI. When my E2 is high, I sweat at night & don’t sleep well.

I’ve never dealt with high blood pressure. My wife has it, she’s on daily meds. I would see your doc on that.

 

[JayD]

Not sure. I’m not familiar with those labs. You need a sensitive Estradiol test to evaluate estrogen. AI’s are very, very tricky, I would adjust my dose before even considering an AI. Also, Everyone on this site will tell you six weeks on TRT is nothing. Being on trt takes a time commitment, patience, etc and guaranteed you will have Ups and down until you get dialed in. You may get frustrated & impatient but it’s a journey. I went on and off a few times until I figured it out. Most doctors have no idea what their doing. You will not feel awesome every day even when you’re dialed in but I shoot for 80-90% of the time. Initially, it takes at least 3-6 months for your body to settle in. It took me over a year to figure it out. I didn’t start getting lean until year two. I think I would start at 18-20mg EOD and see what happens. It’s much easier to start low then gradually increase if needed. Give any change in dose/protocol at least 6-8 weeks to work. The worst thing you can do is start changing everything week to week, that’s a recipe for disaster.

The best advice I can give you is to keep a journal every day. I learned this from a consult I did with a true TRT doc whose been doing this thirty years. Write down your dose and most importantly write down how you feel, sex drive, side effects, etc. You will see patterns develop & that’s how you find your sweet spot. For most people if you keep your dose low enough you don’t need an AI. When my E2 is high, I sweat at night & don’t sleep well.

I’ve never dealt with high blood pressure. My wife has it, she’s on daily meds. I would see your doc on that.

Thanks this is solid advice.

I plan on sticking with this protocol for another 4-6 weeks then revaluate. I suspect I will try dailies at some point

I have noticed if I drink alcohol on trt I do not feel well the next day, plus sleep poorly that night, restless, vivid dreams etc. And I am only talking 2-3 beers tops on say a Friday night(summer here in NZ)

 

[Belekas]

Thanks this is solid advice.

I plan on sticking with this protocol for another 4-6 weeks then revaluate. I suspect I will try dailies at some point

I have noticed if I drink alcohol on trt I do not feel well the next day, plus sleep poorly that night, restless, vivid dreams etc. And I am only talking 2-3 beers tops on say a Friday night(summer here in NZ)

I can't drink at all, half a bottle of beer and I'm fucked with a hangover for a that and next day, so I don't drink at all. Sleep gets hit and feel heart racing so it's no bueno. Been like that for many years. Drank my barrel, as we like to say, being a kid.

Also regarding low libido and fasting I would def look into it. You don't need to fast to reach your body goals. You need good food and nutrients on the constant basis. Low food intake wrecks my libido badly. Been there done that. Always when I increase my food it comes back with a vengeance. You need to build muscle and not starve yourself to death. Not sure why you do all this but I would def recommend rethinking your plan and go from there. Best of luck.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

I'd be interested in hearing more about this. Just reading what you wrote above, it looks like 140mg/wk is his low end dose for low SHBG guys. Is that correct?

Where can I read more about this?

Also @Charliebizz

Sample Dosing and Lab Results

WEEKLY DOSE FREQUENCY TTEST FTEST E2 (IA) E2 (LC/MS) SHBG 200mg q7d 734 193 38 52 21 140mg q3.5d 1130 310 57 22 120mg q3.5d 1228 259 46 24 200mg q7d 900 334 71 7 200mg q7d 1431 435 35 36 20 160mg q3.5d 432 89 51 13 200mg q7d 966 241 52 15 200mg q7d 987 134 32 49 200mg...

forums.t-nation.com

 

[JayD]

Greetings again from New Zealand

I have been doing daily shots 10mg for the past 6 weeks and have started to feel a lot better compared to MWF. Night and day to be honest. I have just started in the last few days taking cabergoline again @ 0.25 per week as i ran out. After looking at these bloods i will jump up to 12mg for 2 months.


Happy to hear thoughts\advice


Recent labs below: 8th of March 2023


Prolactin:766 mU/L ( 65-400 ) H

Oestradiol:171 pmol/L Male <190 pmol/L

Testosterone:18.3 nmol/L ( 9.0-25.0 )

Free Testosterone:465 pmol/L ( 220-680 )

Sex hormone binding globulin:16 nmol/L ( 13-49 )

TSH:2.18 mU/L ( 0.27-4.2 )

Free Thyroxine:13.2 pmol/l ( 12.0-22.0 )

Free T3:4.9 pmol/l ( 3.1-6.8 )

C Reactive Protein:0.8 mg/L ( < 5 )

Bilirubin:7 umol/l ( 2-24 )

Alk Phosphatase:59 U/L ( 40-110 )

GGT:19 U/l ( 10-50 )

ALT:22 U/l ( 0-45 )

AST:19 U/l ( 10-45 )

Total Protein:72 g/L ( 65-80 )

Albumin:42 g/L ( 32-48 )

RBC:5.8 x10'12/L ( 4.0-5.8 ) H

Haemoglobin:172 g/L ( 125-170 ) H

PCV:0.48 L/L ( 0.40-0.54 )

MCV:83 fL ( 80-100 )

MCH:30 pg ( 27-32 )

Red Cell Width:13.0 % ( 11.5-14.5 )

Platelet Count:255 x10'9/L ( 150-400 )

WBC:5.9 x10'9/L ( 4.0-10.0 )

Neutrophil:2.9 x10'9/L ( 2.0-7.5 )

Lymphocyte:2.2 x10'9/L ( 1.2-3.5 )

Monocyte:0.6 x10'9/L ( 0.3-1.0 )

Eosinophil:0.3 x10'9/L ( 0.05-0.4 )

Basophil:0.0 x10'9/L ( 0.0-0.10 )

ImmGranulocyte:0.0 x10'9/L ( 0.0-0.25 )

Blood Film:Blood film not examined.

Sodium:136 mmol/L ( 135-145 )

Potassium:5.0 mmol/L ( 3.5-5.2 )

Creatinine:98 umol/l ( 60-110 )

eGFR (CKD-EPI):80 mL/min/1.73m2 ( >90 ) L

 

[JayD]

Does ones haemoglobin and RBC tend to spike when one starts TRT? And does it usually come back down?

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Does ones haemoglobin and RBC tend to spike when one starts TRT? And does it usually come back down?

Maybe it's an individual response. Never had elevated HCT or HGB, even at high dosing. The only factor I can point to in myself is that I've always drank lots of water, at least six glasses per day and probably more in the summer.

 

[Alecshepard]

I’m the opposite. I tend to feel best when I’m due for next shot when I do m-w-f. I always feel awful on daily injections. I’m a low shbg guy by the way.

Me too I believe because shbg is climbing back up after a huge push down when injecting??

 

[Alecshepard]

Hey I’ve commented before about shbg and such. I am young at 21 so my shbg pre trt being 23.5 seemed ok to me. Now it is around 10. Could my tsh pre trt being in the 3’s multiple times and up to 4.5 when starting trt be a reason for my shbg?? My total t3 was 108 ng/dl (range 85-185) total t4 6.10 mcg/dl (range 4.90-11.40)

My tsh has almost never been tested near 1 (I’ve gotten over 4-5 tests the last 2 years or so)

 

[Systemlord]

Hey I’ve commented before about shbg and such. I am young at 21 so my shbg pre trt being 23.5 seemed ok to me. Now it is around 10.

TRT, androgens suppresses SHBG in almost everyone. There’s nothing you can really do about it.

Total T3 isn’t very useful, similar to only checking Total T without checking the Free T, or in this case Free T3. Free T3 soaks into the cells causing most of the positive effects.

As for the higher than median level TSH of 1.5, are you taking any iodine supplements?

 

[Charliebizz]

Me too I believe because shbg is climbing back up after a huge push down when injecting??

Not sure. I switched to the scrotal cream 2x a day. Doing much better now. First time on trt I feel very stable.

 

[Keepfit1]

Hey I’ve commented before about shbg and such. I am young at 21 so my shbg pre trt being 23.5 seemed ok to me. Now it is around 10. Could my tsh pre trt being in the 3’s multiple times and up to 4.5 when starting trt be a reason for my shbg?? My total t3 was 108 ng/dl (range 85-185) total t4 6.10 mcg/dl (range 4.90-11.40)

My tsh has almost never been tested near 1 (I’ve gotten over 4-5 tests the last 2 years or so)

TSH is only rough guide , Ft3 and Ft4 are the important ones, also TSH should be tested around 9am, it varies at different times of day,as Systemlord mentioned careful if taking iodine or anything with iodine in it as it will mess up labs for thyroid, in my experience thyroid labs if supplementing iodine are all over the place.