Most people don’t need TRT

[JmarkH]

I'm starting to think Naegleria is Danny spamming the board.

 

[Naegleria]

Wow, how many times can the OP reiterate that he has ED? LOL!

Eh whatevs, my penis has been hit or miss for 30 years (mostly miss), and trt hasn't done anything for it. I have some kind of inhibition that came from childhood I think, but I don't even care enough to try to get to the bottom of it. Sex is such a small part of life.

cause i didnt have this difficulties before BRUH

 

[Belekas]

cause i didnt have this difficulties before BRUH

So just "hang the gloves" and get on with it. Seems pretty no-brainner to me. Esp if the benefits are none for you why even bother and waste energy? Most of us spent years if not decades in this field and more or less know what works and what doesn't. No shame to walk away after trying but you need a positive outlook on this not the other way around. If you have spent enough time trying different combinations and still get all the issues you mentioned- get off completely, revert to the mean and forget about it, enjoy life. One way or another I wish you good luck and good health.

 

[Thegoalie39]

You’re right about that, TRT can mess with erections. I don’t tolerate cypionate or enanthate esters, no erections, only overstimulation of my central nervous system.

Short acting esters are a different story, my erections work now. My hormones peak very quickly, drop equally as fast, giving my body a break from what was unnaturally static hormones my body was forced to deal with but couldn’t.

Natural hormones rise in the morning and fall throughout the day, cypionate and most types of injections are quite different and this is a very unnatural hormonal rhythm.

What is your protocol and esters now if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Systemlord]

cause i didnt have this difficulties before BRUH

You’re like a parrot, you keep repeating yourself, and it’s starting to look like you’re trolling everyone hard.

Enough is enough, move on.

 

[Systemlord]

What is your protocol and esters now if you don't mind me asking?

Oral Jatenzo at 237 mg twice daily.

 

[Naegleria]

Even if it was e2 the problem, since Im on an already low dose that only has me at 766ng this means I have to take an AI for life

Which could very well come with side effects and different e2 levels as when you take an AI it drops levels then they start to raise

There is too much variation, this mean i may never be at the sweet pot where erecitons and libido work good or i may only be there a few times then other times i wont because of the nature of trt where testosterone is not as fluctuating as natural testosterone but it still fluctuates

But also taking ai will lower e2 but will also fluctuate

This is why many erectile issues resolve when quitting trt because as natty your body is more stable in these parameters and variation occur are very small

Not to mention even if i take AI is not going solve my issues with high PSA now or palpitations and anxiety

No guarantee it will help any of that it may actually give me side effects as many dont tolerate these AIs

 

[Pringle]

Even if it was e2 the problem, since Im on an already low dose that only has me at 766ng this means I have to take an AI for life

Which could very well come with side effects and different e2 levels as when you take an AI it drops levels then they start to raise

There is too much variation, this mean i may never be at the sweet pot where erecitons and libido work good or i may only be there a few times then other times i wont because of the nature of trt where testosterone is not as fluctuating as natural testosterone but it still fluctuates

But also taking ai will lower e2 but will also fluctuate

This is why many erectile issues resolve when quitting trt because as natty your body is more stable in these parameters and variation occur are very small

Not to mention even if i take AI is not going solve my issues with high PSA now or palpitations and anxiety

No guarantee it will help any of that it may actually give me side effects as many dont tolerate these AIs

Sounds like you have already found the correct answer for YOUR situation. Just stop TRT.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Wow, how many times can the OP reiterate that he has ED? LOL!

Eh whatevs, my penis has been hit or miss for 30 years (mostly miss), and trt hasn't done anything for it. I have some kind of inhibition that came from childhood I think, but I don't even care enough to try to get to the bottom of it. Sex is such a small part of life.

If the reason for diminished sexual desire and function stems from something in childhood, why would you not want to understand the reason and exorcise it from your life? A healthy sex life or love life is also a reflection of being emotionally healthy.

 

[audiocide]

I was hovering between 360-450ng natty

That is not absolutely horrible, in my opinion.

I started TRT at about 350ng/dL. But back then, I was in my early 30s, and into some very physical activities.

Now im at 766 but with lots of sides like bloated, palpitations, erection issues i didnt have before my PSA went to 4.5 which means my prostate has enlarged, i dont feel much different except a little more muscle lol

There is something off about all that. I am lucky in that even with 400mg/wk, I do not have DHT out of range. But if you are extra sensitive in that regard, TRT might be a bad idea for you.

Edit: I do not actually run 400mg. But I did get my levels checked when I did a little "blast" back when.

 

[GomaFini]

Even if it was e2 the problem, since Im on an already low dose that only has me at 766ng this means I have to take an AI for life

Which could very well come with side effects and different e2 levels as when you take an AI it drops levels then they start to raise

There is too much variation, this mean i may never be at the sweet pot where erecitons and libido work good or i may only be there a few times then other times i wont because of the nature of trt where testosterone is not as fluctuating as natural testosterone but it still fluctuates

But also taking ai will lower e2 but will also fluctuate

This is why many erectile issues resolve when quitting trt because as natty your body is more stable in these parameters and variation occur are very small

Not to mention even if i take AI is not going solve my issues with high PSA now or palpitations and anxiety

No guarantee it will help any of that it may actually give me side effects as many dont tolerate these AIs

You are wrong here. These palpitations and anxiety is high estrogen symptoms, so if you take an AI you will see this subside in hours. I am doing it. No anxiety and my erections are better now too (I beated off 5x today) It's the estrogen giving us ED for some reason.

Now I will try to understand how to control it.

 

[Naegleria]

You are wrong here. These palpitations and anxiety is high estrogen symptoms, so if you take an AI you will see this subside in hours. I am doing it. No anxiety and my erections are better now too (I beated off 5x today) It's the estrogen giving us ED for some reason.

Now I will try to understand how to control it.

dont know but my prostate has enlarged and im having discomfort when peeing

trt is not for me

 

[Marcel]

Overactive sympathetic nervous system. Stuck in fight or flight. Seen in PTSD/C-PTSD, anxiety disorders and other psychiatric/neuro-psychiatric disorders. When you're stuck in fight or flight, you're in survival mode and erections are not part of trying to save your life, even if it's events or emotions playing out over and over in your head and body. Also hypertension, palps, gastro issues, overactive bladder. The neuro-endocrine system in overdrive.

How.do fix that?

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

How.do fix that?

I don't know. I know you're living with PTSD. I have Complex PTSD along with bipolar illness, which includes chronic sleep problems and perhaps my ED. My psychiatrist has prescribed different drugs that would turn down the sympathetic nervous system. I'm extremely sensitive to medications that I end up with only side effects. DHEA and pregnenolone haven't helped. Thyroid hasn't helped. Many vitamins and minerals haven't helped. Sorry I don't have much to share except my experiences.

 

[mcs]

Big topic. Lots of debate. The + and - of TRT will never end.

If you haven't already, why not try a secretagogue that helps your body produce it naturally with none of the TRT-related side effects or negative feedback loop issues (i.e. Enclomiphene, hCG, Kisspeptin-10)?

That's what I'm doing; exhausting all those possibilities first before throwing in the towel and jumping on TRT. One or more of those compounds might actually work (in combination with proper sleep, total hormone balancing, diet, macro and micronutrition, sunlight, red light, etc.). I've been using Kisspeptin-10 and have noticed a 40% increase in total T from baseline - but I am also taking other peptides. Need more time and followup labs to see if it really is working. Stay tuned.

 

[Jed Dorsey]

The problem is that it doesnt work for everyone, many many people quit TRT after a few months or even 2 years, cause in the end the improvements are not there and they feel the same if not worse than before it.

TRT will only restore sexual function if such malfunction it was caused by really low testosterone to begin with. Most erectile issues are caused by blood flow, nerve damage, endothelial damage, poor nitric oxide, etc. Testosterone plays little role. Plenty of people with low levels who have zero issues with erections.

What about the people who never had ED before but now have it on TRT?

TRT does thicken the blood in many people, hydration has ZERO to do with it. TRT stimulates EPO which causes the body make more red blood cells. Some people good genetics are unaffected by this. Majority will always see an increase in their red blood cells, some will still remain in range while other will be out of range.

Its possible that TRT affects a whole lot more hormones than the ones tested in most TRT labs. It probably affects everything in the body. This would explain why some people who never had ED, may develop it on TRT, has nothing to do with protocol or the user.

TRT is just a bandaid, it doesn't fix the real issue that caused your body to produce less testosterone, in many cases, this issue is genetic, epigenetic, environmental, or both. Maybe science one day will able to alter genes and fix hormones issues at the core.

Blood flow is needed for erections to work, and TRT thickens the blood if just slightly, could also explain why some have issues on TRT.

TRT can also accelerate or worse arterial calcification

Some people have good results on it, while others dont, what I find absurd and insulting is the people who have good result assume the rest of us are doing things wrong, is our fault, or something is done wrong, your diet is wrong, you lifestyle, your protocol, your doctor

no mofo sometimes some stuff doesnt work well for some people and not suited for them

Well presented and points well taken…but ‘mofo’?? Not exactly the most diplomatic word of choice but OK

 

[Keepfit1]

I was hovering between 360-450ng natty

Now im at 766 but with lots of sides like bloated, palpitations, erection issues i didnt have before my PSA went to 4.5 which means my prostate has enlarged, i dont feel much different except a little more muscle lol

If this is what trt is like then i can be without. Erections is a big issue. For many people i read online it can wreck libido and erection past the honeymoon phase despite having good mumbers on paper

Id rather get back my hardons and bit a little smaller in muscles than this tbh

Also larger prostate is not good

I read so many reports here snd other groups of people who had this erectile issues on trt

Of course the ones with no issue couldn’t care less since is not them and tell them your protocol is wrong maybe change this or that

Maybe trt is not for you and is as simple as that

I feel like most get on trt believing itll get them jacked ripped huge energy manly alpha etc but is far from that but they have to continue cause they have no choice

Millions of men have low average levels and do perfectly fine in life. Most dont need it

Not to mention the body is a millions of yesr machine is foolish to think it can be fooled by some bottle testosterone the body knows is fake and adjusts everything accordingly

Not to mention TRT thickens the blood in almost everyone, some are more prone to it while other not so much

Most have to donate blood, i mean if you have to donate then how can be it a good thing for the heart?

Youre donating because you know thicker blood can increase risk for heart attacks and strokes, so if it wasn’t an issue you wouldn’t feel the need to donate

People often say that high altitude people have high blood markers this may be true but they are still considered high risk people by medicine

Also native americans from high altitudes tend to have great heart genetics as well, theyre smaller in size and eat low protein diets

is it maybe you wernt tunee up properly on TRT, were your numbers optimal, the experts will tell you that you dont have to donate blood unless your taking too much T. Ive never had to and T only helps erections for me, I have never heard of anyone losing erections if dialled in properly with proper counts. Others may have different views?

 

[Keepfit1]

is it maybe you wernt tunee up properly on TRT, were your numbers optimal, the experts will tell you that you dont have to donate blood unless your taking too much T. Ive never had to and T only helps erections for me, I have never heard of anyone losing erections if dialled in properly with proper counts. Others may have different views?

oops that should have started tuned up as opposed to tunee

 

[molonlabedoc]

I was hovering between 360-450ng natty

Now im at 766 but with lots of sides like bloated, palpitations, erection issues i didnt have before my PSA went to 4.5 which means my prostate has enlarged, i dont feel much different except a little more muscle lol

If this is what trt is like then i can be without. Erections is a big issue. For many people i read online it can wreck libido and erection past the honeymoon phase despite having good mumbers on paper

Id rather get back my hardons and bit a little smaller in muscles than this tbh

Also larger prostate is not good

I read so many reports here snd other groups of people who had this erectile issues on trt

Of course the ones with no issue couldn’t care less since is not them and tell them your protocol is wrong maybe change this or that

Maybe trt is not for you and is as simple as that

I feel like most get on trt believing itll get them jacked ripped huge energy manly alpha etc but is far from that but they have to continue cause they have no choice

Millions of men have low average levels and do perfectly fine in life. Most dont need it

Not to mention the body is a millions of yesr machine is foolish to think it can be fooled by some bottle testosterone the body knows is fake and adjusts everything accordingly

Not to mention TRT thickens the blood in almost everyone, some are more prone to it while other not so much

Most have to donate blood, i mean if you have to donate then how can be it a good thing for the heart?

Youre donating because you know thicker blood can increase risk for heart attacks and strokes, so if it wasn’t an issue you wouldn’t feel the need to donate

People often say that high altitude people have high blood markers this may be true but they are still considered high risk people by medicine

Also native americans from high altitudes tend to have great heart genetics as well, theyre smaller in size and eat low protein diets

I will say, this post is not far off from what I have seen. I think there are plenty of dudes that have never been physical that think TRT will help them look and feel better, but still eat and act like a turd. Yes you can see that most of the posts on here are people having issues, but how many guys are cruising along and doing well on replacement protocols and just don't need to spend the time talking about it? I have no idea.

For me, at 46, my levels are at 600 doing nothing but eating low carb and taking normal vitamins like d and zinc. I'm six feet and shrinking, 197lbs at 10 percent body fat. For those of us who never got out of shape, I think you can hold off longer barring brain injuries and other outside traumas and such.

I have definitely gotten less muscular the last two years, putting on body fat a lot easier and don't recover like I did in my 20s or early 30s, but until I drop below 500 I wont get on the test train.

I would MUCH rather go on HGH in very modest amounts, or even ghrp again (I did enjoy 4 years with Thomas's peptides). I think its good to see posts that offer differing opinions, its healthy to see it from different angles.

 

[Marcel]

I don't know. I know you're living with PTSD. I have Complex PTSD along with bipolar illness, which includes chronic sleep problems and perhaps my ED. My psychiatrist has prescribed different drugs that would turn down the sympathetic nervous system. I'm extremely sensitive to medications that I end up with only side effects. DHEA and pregnenolone haven't helped. Thyroid hasn't helped. Many vitamins and minerals haven't helped. Sorry I don't have much to share except my experiences.

Thank you for the reply, I know I've tried all the same things, dhea, pregnenolone, exemestane, a lot of vitamins. Main reason I didn't jump on trt yet is because I'm not sure if it'll make a difference and then I'm stuck pinning. The one stack that move the needle a bit was, psilocybin-alpha gpc and modafinil. It kept me kind of even through out the day. Believe it or not I can still nap on it. My sleep is also terrible.

Surprisingly my total test came back mid range but I was using a bit of hcg and enclomiphene, the numbers improved but the mood is the same.