Managing E2 without the use of AI: Suggestions?

[geyr7777]

Given you are using HCG to preserve fertility nothing you can do there but reducing HCG helps lowering E2 as well.

...except more frequent HCG doses at lower levels?

 

[HealthMan]

...except more frequent HCG doses at lower levels?

That for me didn’t work. I explained why in another post. Check Dr Saya small study case on HCG

 

[cigpk]

I went down to 360 ius three times a week.

Dr Saya said he believes this will be sufficient for fertility

 

[Gman86]

My main problem with that beef liver extract is you have no idea of what level of vitamins you are taking.

The company says:

5099 IU (100% DV) Vitamin A per serving
13.6 MCG (230% DV) Vitamin B12 per serving
120 MG Choline per serving

But everything else is vague, CoQ10, Bio-Available Iron, Hyaluronic Acid, A, D, K & E is in beef liver, but how much?

Many foods are nutriment rich, it's always about how much are you getting per serving?

Ya good point. So this is the way I assume what’s in there. Basically 6 capsules equals about an ounce of raw beef liver, from my understanding. So I just assume that whatever vitamins and minerals are in 1oz of raw beef liver, are in 6 capsules.

 

[DragonBits]

Ya good point. So this is the way I assume what’s in there. Basically 6 capsules equals about an ounce of raw beef liver, from my understanding. So I just assume that whatever vitamins and minerals are in 1oz of raw beef liver, are in 6 capsules.

Seems like a reasonable assumption.

 

[SilverSurfer]

“Drastic improvement in health”, “highest/best on the plant” (really? How about solar system?), “costs money, but saves money”, “perfect ratio”, “absolute steal”, ....but wait there’s more.....call today....operators standing by.

It’s flippin freeze dried beef liver.....at best. The liver as health food panacea belches up every 15 to 20 years. But to each their own.

Now if you’ll excuse me I have to run to GNC for some pickled tiger scrotum....

 

[fifty]

Pick me up some detox cleanse 2000 while you’re at gnc.

 

[Tman]

Thats what I was doing. Then I called empower to make sure that was ok and she said because of the filler, you may be getting 75% filler and 25% anastrazole one dose and then vice verse the second dose so it would be inconsistent.

I am open to dosing anastrazole once a week but the short half life makes that difficult

It took a little work but I emptied every single capsule out mix that all together and then refilled my capsules to the 1/3 level because I can't tolerate more than one third of .1 of the AI.

 

[Gman86]

“Drastic improvement in health”, “highest/best on the plant” (really? How about solar system?), “costs money, but saves money”, “perfect ratio”, “absolute steal”, ....but wait there’s more.....call today....operators standing by.

It’s flippin freeze dried beef liver.....at best. The liver as health food panacea belches up every 15 to 20 years. But to each their own.

Now if you’ll excuse me I have to run to GNC for some pickled tiger scrotum....

Haha, this actually made me chuckle. No sarcasm either, it literally made me laugh to myself. Cuz i really do sound like I’m pitching a product lol.

But I get what you’re saying, and I agree. I used to fall into the trap of the next best supplement that’s gonna be a game changer. But in all honesty, the human body is an unbelievably amazing machine. What I’ve learned over the past 20 years of studying health and longevity, is that if you just give the body what it needs, in regards to vitamins, minerals, hormones, exercise, sleep, etc., you will be blown away at what it can do on its own. All beef liver is doing, is giving a person a lot of vitamins and minerals that humans just don’t get very much in their diet anymore. Our ancestors for thousands of years have eaten organ meats. When was the last time you, or any of us, ate liver, heart, kidney, pancreas, etc?

Just google highest source of B12 on the planet, highest source of heme-iron on the planet, highest source of copper on the planet, highest source of vitamin A on the planet. It’s not like I’m making this stuff up. You’ll see for yourself that beef liver is either 1st or 2nd on all those lists. And check out the ratios that beef liver has them all in, compared to the ratios that we’re supposed to get in our diet of each vitamin and mineral. You’ll see that Mother Nature knows what she’s doing when she’s putting these things together. Just like eating an orange, for example, is a better way to get vitamin c than taking synthetic vitamin c, due to an orange having cofactors like bioflavonoids that help absorb the vitamin c and have it go to the places we want it to. Nature will always know best.

I agree with you though, beef liver is definitely not a panacea, and the end all be all to improve health and longevity, just like TRT isn’t the end all be all. But just like TRT, taking beef liver can drastically improve someone’s overall health. But just like TRT, it’s a piece of the puzzle. All beef liver is, is a one stop shop in regards to getting most of your vitamins and minerals. Especially ones that many people don’t get enough of in their diet nowadays. For me, it just allows me to take one supplement to get most of these vitamins and minerals, instead of having to take them all separately, or having to make sure my diet consists of them all everyday. It’s just a safety net for me to make sure I’m getting them all in everyday. Basically exactly what a synthetic multivitamin dose, but this way, I’m getting them all from a natural source, and in perfect ratios, so that I don’t create any imbalances.

 

[wsj357]

I’ve decided to resume my Drs protocol at the following:
40 mg test 2x weekly
360 iu 3x weekly
No ai at the moment

I will have labs in 4 weeks and see where I’m at. I’ll update you all. Thanks for the advice.

I’ll be interested to see where my SHBG is because it typically runs about 55-66 (15-55 range) so that will also dictate what kind ofE2 level I can tolerate. But with that said, I’m more concerned about symptoms than numbers so if I feel good, I won’t worry about it.

So what happened . I gave you a fairly accurate synopsis of what your sides could be generated from but you have stuck to the same protocol.

More Cypionate take less HCG. Especially if you want shbg to drop.

HCG causss these sides in men all the time. Just look around and find out for yourself.

 

[cigpk]

So what happened . I gave you a fairly accurate synopsis of what your sides could be generated from but you have stuck to the same protocol.

More Cypionate take less HCG. Especially if you want shbg to drop.

HCG causss these sides in men all the time. Just look around and find out for yourself.

I am choosing to trust Dr. Saya’s protocol. He hasn’t steered me wrong thus far. I’m starting to sleep better and adjust.

Thanks for the tip though. Also, the protocol causing issues was 500 iu hcg twice weekly. So I haven’t stuck to the same protocol. The higher, less often hcg dose was causing e2 spikes

 

[Appassionato]

I'd much rather do a kiss of masteron than an AI
50mg a week does the trick for me
E2 and BW is optimal
The constant sore right nip has long vanished as well as the moodiness from elevated E2

Arimidex is horrible stuff for me, feels like I'm on an anti depressant and has crashed me before. Never again

Hey @MRX, I'm curious about your post regarding masteron. I'm in the same situation as you. I can't tolerate E2 higher than 35, but at the same time I'm an over responder to AI and I get sides even from really really small doses.

I was wondering if you can tell me your experience with masteron. Do you have blood work before and after?

 

[Logan24]

I am choosing to trust Dr. Saya’s protocol. He hasn’t steered me wrong thus far. I’m starting to sleep better and adjust.

Thanks for the tip though. Also, the protocol causing issues was 500 iu hcg twice weekly. So I haven’t stuck to the same protocol. The higher, less often hcg dose was causing e2 spikes

 

[Logan24]

I am choosing to trust Dr. Saya’s protocol. He hasn’t steered me wrong thus far. I’m starting to sleep better and adjust.

Thanks for the tip though. Also, the protocol causing issues was 500 iu hcg twice weekly. So I haven’t stuck to the same protocol. The higher, less often hcg dose was causing e2 spikes

I have almost identical labs to you and have had a very similar experience in that I’ve felt like I need an AI but am also very sensitive to them. My total t 1100-1200, free 17-21 and SHBG 50-70, sensitive e2 41 without AI. I have always assumed my symptoms were related to e2 since everything else seemed optimized. So I try to manage to this really tight range of e2 where I think I feel good and it’s tough to stay there. Recently a dr posed a question to me that maybe the reason I feel better on an AI is not due to suppressing e2 but the fact that it increases my free t and that maybe I would do better by dropping the AI, and simply increasing my test dose and free t. Thinking about giving it a try just to see. You may have already sorted out your issue though.

 

[cigpk]

I have been off ai for 7 weeks or so and I don’t plan on returning. Anastrazole made me feel pretty rough and killed my joints.

The main issue I am having right now with my trt is I can’t sleep. I have had this issue with low e2 and high e2. I don’t know if e2 is even elevated at the moment, I have labs in 3 days so I’ll find out.

 

[MarcoFL]

AI isn’t the answer. I tried for YEARS. Drop it and be patient. Then increase or increase dose if things aren’t working out.

I was on 300/wk for about a year. No ai towards the end. Felt great. Recently dropped down to 200/wk about 20 days ago. Again no ai and starting to feel about the same as I did on the larger dose.

For year I was on 200/wk and dosing ai by feel. I’d get labs when I wasn’t doing well and was always below 20 on e2. Everything I chalked up to elevated e2 turned out to be transient. Wait it out. The anxiety or whatever you feel without the ai will hit a peak. Then you adjust. No doubt in my mind.

But what if your E2 sensitive runs 48 but you have a estrone over 100 which is supposedly the one that causes cancer? Just ride that out too? My doctor was all over me for not taking my AI.

 

[mazrim]

AI isn’t the answer. I tried for YEARS. Drop it and be patient. Then increase or increase dose if things aren’t working out.

I was on 300/wk for about a year. No ai towards the end. Felt great. Recently dropped down to 200/wk about 20 days ago. Again no ai and starting to feel about the same as I did on the larger dose.

For year I was on 200/wk and dosing ai by feel. I’d get labs when I wasn’t doing well and was always below 20 on e2. Everything I chalked up to elevated e2 turned out to be transient. Wait it out. The anxiety or whatever you feel without the ai will hit a peak. Then you adjust. No doubt in my mind.

Why the switch from 300 to 200?

 

[mazrim]

Gotcha. Was wondering because last I read you were feeling good on it.
Understandable.

 

[Alive]

Ya I’m the same way. Used to take a ton of supplements, but as I’ve learned more over the years, I realize taking anything in isolation isn’t the best idea, and getting these things from Whole Foods will always be optimal.

I do also take magnesium in isolation. The only other thing I take in isolation is vitamin D. Beef liver capsules cover pretty much everything else. I usually eat 3 egg yolks per day, which are also like nature’s multivitamin. I also eat 2-3 organic Brazil nuts per day to make sure I have my selenium covered. And for omega’s, I just eat sardines 2-3 times per week. I also eat organic hemp seeds, which have the omegas. But as far as epa and dha go, I get them from sardines and anything else I might eat throughout the week that has epa and dha in it.

And ya I understand. I think I’ve also heard that zinc, b6 and boron can lower E2. Anytime I do research on natural aromatase inhibitors, white button mushrooms always seem to be the most effective thing. So if you’re looking to lower E2 naturally, give those a shot.

What brand of beef liver capsules do you use?

 

[Gman86]

What brand of beef liver capsules do you use?

https://www.amazon.com/Ancestral-Su...r&qid=1559993852&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1