Lowering Test Cyp Dosage - Can't Sleep And Irritated

[madman]

ANOTHER QUICK UPDATE

Had cardiologist appointment yesterday July 8. New doctor. His exact words... you are way too young and too good of shape for Erectile Dysfunction. I will do my best for you but I believe this is hormone related. He ordered

CT Coronary Calcium test (first doctor to ever order one).
Lipid Profile
Lipoprotein (a)
Echocardiogram

He said if everything checks ok with the lab tests. No need for a Echocardiogram. Just disregard the Echocardiogram.


I had a session with a new Endocrinologist today (July 9). He said after 5 years of being on Test Cyp and still having Erectile Dysfunction... I can assure you... I will be your last doctor to see. I guarantee I will fix this. Your insurance may not cover some of the drugs I will prescribe... but your problem will be solved. (Yes, I like his confidence. But... I'm still preparing for another doctor failure.)

He said... I would like to see what your body produces naturally (hormone wise.) But I'm not going to make you go through all that... (coming off of Test Cyp.) Here are the labs I have ordered for you.

Total Testosterone
FSH
LH
DHEA Sulfate
Prolactin
Estradiol LCMS
Progesterone LCMS
IGF-1
Cortisol Random
CBC
Comp. Metabolic Panel
Hemoglobin A1c
Lipid Panel
T4 Free
TSH
Vitamin B12
Vitamin D 25-Hydroxy

From our 10 minute conversation he told me he doesn't believe in Free Testosterone or Bioavailable Testosterone markers. He said the tests aren't accurate enough. Too many flaws in the test. Oddly he didn't order an SHBG. He did say it is important but apparently not on the initial examination???

We continued to have the conversation... I told him... you know how your stomach growls at you and your immediate animal instinct is to make something to eat? I mean... it's automatic right? You're hungry... you eat. There's no in between... in guessing if you're hungry or not. When you see an attractive girl with big boobs... an amazing body... and you don't desire her?? You don't sit there and debate if you want her? You go and get it! And if you don't... there's something very wrong with you. Well... that's where I'm at. I have no interest in sex. I have no interest in the act. When the sh## don't work... it don't work. But in all reality... it should work! The doctor responded... I have never heard of anyone describe it the way you just did. But I 100% get your point. He said get your labs done... and see me in about 2 weeks.

Like I said men... giving this Endo a chance... we'll see what happens.

This is pure nonsense!

Although there is no standardized FT assay as of yet you can still use/rely upon the gold standard ED assay and yes although there can be chance of an inaccurate result now and then due to operator error as it is a painstaking technically demanding procedure for the most part if you are using a reliable lab it should be good to go.

Even than if you have doubts than you can easily use/rely upon calculated FT which would be the linear law-of mass action cFTV as it has already been validated twice when compared against a higher order reference method ED assay let alone the CDCs new standardized Equilibrium Dialysis assay.

Yes cFTV tends to overestimate slightly but it is nothing to fret over!

Your doctor is a f**KING idiot!

Again although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the benefits.

You are wasting your time flying blind here as you have no clue where your trough FT sits.

Going to be running around in circles and judging by the most recent labs you posted let alone some of your previous threads I responded to you are most likely still running a high trough FT level!

You are hitting a high-end trough TT 863 ng/dL and from what I remember your SHBG has always hovered between 14- low 20s.

With a high-end trough TT 863 ng/dL and low/lowish SHBG let alone even if you had normal SHBG your trough FT will be f**KING HIGH!

Remember what I have stated numerous times on the forum over the years, tread lightly when it comes to how high you run your trough/steady-state FT level as running too high a FT can be just as bad in many ways as having too low a FT especially when it comes to mood, libido and erectile function!

 

[madman]

Total Testosterone 863 ng/dL (Normal Range 175-781 ng/dL)
FSH <0.2 mlU/mL (Normal Range 1.3-19.3 mlU/mL)
LH <0.2 mlU/mL (Normal Range 1.5-9.3 mlU/mL)
DHEA Sulfate 855 ng/mL (Normal Range 700-5,690 ng/mL)
Prolactin 8.8 ng/mL (Normal Range <13.1 ng/mL)
Estradiol LCMS STILL WAITING ON RESULTS
Progesterone LCMS <31 ng/dL (Normal Range 32-332 ng/dL)
IGF-1 139 ng/mL (Normal Range 81-263 ng/mL)
IGF-1 Lab From 3/3/2020 169 ng/mL (Normal Range 58-219 ng/mL) COMPARISON
Cortisol Random 4.6 ug/dL (Normal Range 4.3-22.4 ug/dL)
TSH 2.83 ulU/mL (Normal Range 0.45-5.33 ulU/mL)
T4 Free 1.23 ng/dL (Normal Range 0.61-1.44 ng/dL)
Vitamin B12 596 pg/mL (Normal Range 180-810 pg/mL)
Vitamin D 25-Hydroxy 37 ng/dL (Normal Range >20 ng/dL)

Hemoglobin A1c
Glycated Hemoglobin 5.1% (Normal Range <5.7%)
Estimated Average Glucose 100 mg/dL (Normal Range <117 mg/dL)
A1C Interpretation: Normal

CBC
WBC Count 6.5 K/uL (Normal Range 3.8/10.6 K/uL)
RBC Count 5.71 M/uL (Normal Range 4.40/6.00 M/uL)
Hemoglobin 16.4 g/dL (Normal Range 13.5-17.0 g/dL)
Hematocrit 49.0% (Normal Range 41.0-53.0%)
MCV 85.9 fl (Normal Range 80-100 fl)
MCH 28.8 pg (Normal Range 26-34 pg)
MCHC 33.5 g/dL (Normal Range 31-37 g/dL)
RDW 15.7% (Normal Range <14.5%)
Platelet Count 230 K/uL (Normal Range 150-450 K/uL)

Comp. Metabolic Panel
Glucose 87 mg/dL (Normal Range 60-99 mg/dL)
Sodium 137 mmol/L (Normal Range 135-145 mmol/L)
Potassium 4.3 mmol/L (Normal Range 3.5-5 mmol/L)
Chloride 102 mmol/L (Normal Range 98-111 mol/L)
Carbon Dioxide 26 mmol/L (Normal Range 21-35 mmol/L)
Anion Gap 9 (Normal Range 3-13)
Blood Urea Nitrogen 29 mg/dL (Normal Range 10-25 mg/dL) ABNORMAL
Creatinine 1.10 mg/dL (Normal Range <1.28 mg/dL)
AST/SGOT 38 lU/L (Normal Range <35 lU/L) ABNORMAL
ALT/SGPT 40 lU/L (Normal Range <52 lU/L)
Alkaline Phosphatase 54 lU/L (Normal Range 40-140 lU/L)
Bilirubin 0.9 mg/dL (Normal Range <1.2 mg/dL)
Calcium 9.1 mg/dL (Normal Range 8.2-10.2 mg/dL)
Protein Total 7.3 g/dL (Normal Range 6.0-8.3 g/dL)
Albumin 4.6 g/dL (Normal Range 3.7-4.8 g/dL)
Globulin 2.7 g/dL (Normal Range 1.7-3.6 g/dL)
A/G Ratio 1.7 (Normal Range 0.9-1.8)
Corrected Calcium 9.0 mg/dL (Normal Range 8.7-10.1 mg/dL)
eGFR 84 (Normal Range >60mL/min/1.73m2)

Lipid Panel
Cholesterol 150 mg/dL (Normal Range <200 mg/dL)
Triglyceride 77 mg/dL (Normal Range <200 mg/dL)
HDL Cholesterol 41 mg/dL (Normal Range >40 mg/dL)
LDL Cholesterol 94 mg/dL (Normal Range <130 mg/dL)
VLDL 15
Non HDL Cholesterol 109 mg/dL (Normal Range - Desirable <130 mg/dL)

Lipoprotein (a) 99 mg/dL (Normal Range 0-30 mg/dL) VERY HIGH

CT Coronary Calcium Test - WAITING ON RESULTS
Echocardiogram - Tomorrow Morning

Hey gang! Trying to give a quick update on everything. I had few things that came back unusual. The Lipoprotein (a) test came back extremely elevated. Still waiting on the CT Coronary Calcium Test results. My cardiologist told me please do the Echocardiogram. Luckily there was an opening tomorrow morning for that test. He basically said... let me review all test results and I will follow up with you.

I had my 2nd appointment with my new Endocrinologist today. For some odd reason the Estradiol LCMS test never came back yet? Crazy. The doctor reviewed the labs and said... these are fantastic labs. I truly don't see where the problem is. But I want you to do something for me? I said sure. I want you to take Clomid 50mg but only half a pill everyday when you wake up. I said doctor with all due respect I'm not quitting Test Cyp injections. He said I never told you to quit. I have an idea.... let's see how your brain/mood responds by taking your current 85mg-87mg weekly Test Cyp and add only 25 mg of Clomid. (So half of a 50mg pill.) When you wake up. Do this for 2 months. Comeback and tell me how you feel. I said interesting. While ever other Endocrinologist told me to quit Test Cyp Injections cold... and then take Clomid. He's the 1st doctor to say take the Clomid while taking Test Cyp. Maybe a few could chime in and tell me why a doctor would suggest this? Always curious on posters opinions.

As for my current overall feeling? I do feel "light"/quick. My mind has been more upbeat. As in desiring sex? Below normal. (This needs to change.) I've had a few gym sessions.. 7 total and all I can say is... the first 3 sessions the strength was normal. The last 4 sessions... not as strong as I once felt. The recovery time is super slow in my opinion. Sexually? I can't even get a 1 millisecond erection recovering from the gym. Why is that?? I don't get it? Fatigue? How do you change it? Free Testosterone marker? I like to workout hard at the gym. And I seem very tired the next day after a workout. You could probably live on this protocol with a light workout... maybe cardio? 20-30 mins but not a heavy gym session. 1hr 1hr/15min+ Perhaps I expect too much out of myself? The goal is sexual performance... and libido. I'm hoping to feel better in that area. I'll keep you posted if this Clomid works. As always... your comments are appreciated! Thank you!

Total Testosterone 863 ng/dL (Normal Range 175-781 ng/dL)

Nothing to chew on here as you are missing one of the most important blood markers for someone f**king with exogenous T!

FREE TESTOSTERONE!

 

[GreenMachineX]

I've been taking roughly around 130-135mg of Test Cyp a week and feeling great. Sleeping well etc. The issue is... I'm tired of donating blood literally 6 pints a year. I'm tired of the recovery time... depleted minerals. EVERYTHING! Around every 65 days or so when it's time to donate blood my Hematocrit and Hemoglobin are HIGH. Roughly around 18.1 and 53% RBC around 6.18 million. After donating 1 unit of blood my numbers go to 17.1 51.1% and RBC 5.92 million. Isn't that still too high?? What are your thoughts?

After gathering some info at this site and estimating probable Total Test Free Test after a Test Cyp reduction in dosing... I still believe I'd be at upper normal Trough levels. I'm taking roughly 85mg-88mg a week for the last 2 weeks and I feel AWFUL. Irriated. Can't sleep more than 4 hours without waking up. I understand your body has to adjust to a new dosage... but this is insane! I mean... could my body be telling me... I NEED MORE TEST CYP! Why are you doing this?

Again... I've tried this protocol before.... and it didn't help my lifestyle as in... getting things DONE! Sure, it helps reduce the blood thickness.... to some degree. But your overall well-being sucks! I literally don't want to donate blood anymore. I can't stand donating! What else can you do?

Not to mention... I've had major back tightness in my mid back, upper shoulders lately. It's been going on for the last 8 months. Doctors blame it on simple aging. I'm turning 47 soon... The upper back tightness is so extreme it's causing me headaches now. I have to take Ibuprofen to reduce the inflammation. Mind you.... all the Test Cyp I take is USA prescription grade... with that cottonseed carrier oil. Sometimes I wonder if that's causing it? I used to take that offshore Test Cyp with that MCT carrier oil? I don't recall having inflammation this high? I did have an MRI done and a neurosurgeon said there's nothing to be concerned about. Typical aging at 46 years of age.

Again, I was just trying to cut down on blood donations... like maybe once a year? Or how about ZERO A YEAR? Yeah.... that's the idea. Low Test makes you batty. Good day gentlemen.

Since switching to daily shots and assigning even higher free test levels, hematocrit and hemoglobin haven’t been an issue.

 

[Stpfan]

Going to be running around in circles and judging by the most recent labs you posted let alone some of your previous threads I responded to you are most likely still running a high trough FT level!

I can promise you I'm not. In fact periodically I've had dead center middle FT levels for 2-3 years. And felt like sh##. I've had low end FT levels and felt like sh##.

Regardless... that's why this is a forum and people can express their opinions. I might hire you as my doctor since you know everything.

Personally, whatever went DEAD WRONG back in 2019.... no nocturnal erections. Sh## no erections period... I thought this was considered "aging". Where I sat and tried to put my daughter's bike together and couldn't even concentrate for 5 minutes without feeling awfully sick and irritated. Literally had to go to sleep... instantly. That's how fu##ed up I was with low T. But I didn't know??!!!?

But what I learned so far... is that no matter what you do... there are NEGATIVES to everything. No matter what you draw up in your head POSITIVELY.... the price is... something has to EVEN OUT. Whether it's high RBC... no erections.... the list goes on and on. And if you happen to be one of the lucky dudes that can just pop an erection on cue for that dream girl you're with... well... you've mastered old age.

I still believe IGF-1 levels are indirectly responsible for ED. NOT DIRECTLY. But indirectly. And yes... a part of me wants to try it... but I'm also chicken sh## that I might royally screw something up with my pituitary or other organs... and then my life is really f'ed. I guess they say... be happy for what you have.... left.

 

[madman]

I can promise you I'm not. In fact periodically I've had dead center middle FT levels for 2-3 years. And felt like sh##. I've had low end FT levels and felt like sh##.

Regardless... that's why this is a forum and people can express their opinions. I might hire you as my doctor since you know everything.

Personally, whatever went DEAD WRONG back in 2019.... no nocturnal erections. Sh## no erections period... I thought this was considered "aging". Where I sat and tried to put my daughter's bike together and couldn't even concentrate for 5 minutes without feeling awfully sick and irritated. Literally had to go to sleep... instantly. That's how fu##ed up I was with low T. But I didn't know??!!!?

But what I learned so far... is that no matter what you do... there are NEGATIVES to everything. No matter what you draw up in your head POSITIVELY.... the price is... something has to EVEN OUT. Whether it's high RBC... no erections.... the list goes on and on. And if you happen to be one of the lucky dudes that can just pop an erection on cue for that dream girl you're with... well... you've mastered old age.

I still believe IGF-1 levels are indirectly responsible for ED. NOT DIRECTLY. But indirectly. And yes... a part of me wants to try it... but I'm also chicken sh## that I might royally screw something up with my pituitary or other organs... and then my life is really f'ed. I guess they say... be happy for what you have.... left.

Go back through all your threads since you came on here!

You had been running trough TT 800-1200s over the years and that is with low/lowish SHBG (14-low 20s) to boot which would have your trough FT very high/through the roof!

Highly doubtful you ever gave the so called lower FT a fair run.

You still clearly lack the understanding of how exogenous esterified T works.

It takes many months for the body to adapt to its new-set-point

Remember the thread you started when you added in the ND?

Better yet look over your first post in this thread.....


After gathering some info at this site and estimating probable Total Test Free Test after a Test Cyp reduction in dosing... I still believe I'd be at upper normal Trough levels. I'm taking roughly 85mg-88mg a week for the last 2 weeks and I feel AWFUL. Irriated. Can't sleep more than 4 hours without waking up. I understand your body has to adjust to a new dosage... but this is insane! I mean... could my body be telling me... I NEED MORE TEST CYP! Why are you doing this?




*I mean... could my body be telling me... I NEED MORE TEST CYP! Why are you doing this?


If you truly understood how things work you would never even mention such!

2 weeks in c'mon man this is ridiculous!

Again you are currently running a high-end trough TT almost 900 ng/dL and I would put money on it that your trough FT is high!

Your peak is going to be even higher.

This is on your current protocol 85-87 mg/week TC.

Over the years since coming on here you were running anywhere from 100 all the way up to 160 mg TC/week!

Seeing as you always had low/lowish SHBG with a trough TTs in the 800, 900, 1000, 1100, 1200s your FT would be veryhigh/through the roof!

You need to know where your TROUGH FT sits PLAIN and SIMPLE!

Again running too high a trough/steady-state FT can easily have a negative impact on libido/erectile function!

Dopamine is a key f**king player here!

 

[Stpfan]

Go back through all your threads since you came on here!

You had been running trough TT 800-1200s over the years and that is with low/lowish SHBG (14-low 20s) to boot which would have your trough FT very high/through the roof!

Highly doubtful you ever gave the so called lower FT a fair run.

You still clearly lack the understanding of how exogenous esterified T works.

It takes many months for the body to adapt to its new-set-point

Remember the thread you started when you added in the ND?

Better yet look over your first post in this thread.....


After gathering some info at this site and estimating probable Total Test Free Test after a Test Cyp reduction in dosing... I still believe I'd be at upper normal Trough levels. I'm taking roughly 85mg-88mg a week for the last 2 weeks and I feel AWFUL. Irriated. Can't sleep more than 4 hours without waking up. I understand your body has to adjust to a new dosage... but this is insane! I mean... could my body be telling me... I NEED MORE TEST CYP! Why are you doing this?




*I mean... could my body be telling me... I NEED MORE TEST CYP! Why are you doing this?


If you truly understood how things work you would never even mention such!

2 weeks in c'mon man this is ridiculous!

Again you are currently running a high-end trough TT almost 900 ng/dL and I would put money on it that your trough FT is high!

Your peak is going to be even higher.

This is on your current protocol 85-87 mg/week TC.

Over the years since coming on here you were running anywhere from 100 all the way up to 160 mg TC/week!

Seeing as you always had low/lowish SHBG with a trough TTs in the 800, 900, 1000, 1100, 1200s your FT would be veryhigh/through the roof!

You need to know where your TROUGH FT sits PLAIN and SIMPLE!

Again running too high a trough/steady-state FT can easily have a negative impact on libido/erectile function!

Dopamine is a key f**king player here!

Madman. You consider yourself an asset to this forum? You're just a loud mouth moderator in which pushes solid posters away from this forum. Don't really understand why Nelson would even allow it?? But hey... whatever it is. I've seen you attack other posters. You have zero credibility. You aren't a doctor. Every human body is different... reacts differently... to different compounds etc. You can take practically 20 guys on here and all 20 people wouldn't react the same to your so called... "TRUSTED ADVICE". Stop ensuing you know everything. You don't.

All you do is belittle everyone. How about "SUGGESTING THINGS??" Instead of GOING OFF!! And ATTACKING!! Unreal this guy.

 

[Melody68]

Stpfan, I don't know much about T since I'm newer on the board, but I sure know a lot about Lp(a); I had very high levels too (over 100). I had no family history of heart disease, but I developed severe heart blockage when it finally made itself known at the age of 41. My other blood markers were relatively normal, only the Lp(a) was out of whack. You shouldn't take that finding lightly. Most doctors told me that there is no way to control the Lp(a) (their only solution is to take even more statins), but I found a solution with Niacin (the one that gives you the flush). There is a book, Cholesterol Control without Diet by a Dr. Parsons, you should read it.

I've read many of Madman's posts, I find them very informative, and he has personally spent a lot of time helping me. He doesn't sugar coat things, and perhaps some people would misinterpret his writing style as being less than polite. I'm certain he intends only to help, and not to belittle.

 

[madman]

Madman. You consider yourself an asset to this forum? You're just a loud mouth moderator in which pushes solid posters away from this forum. Don't really understand why Nelson would even allow it?? But hey... whatever it is. I've seen you attack other posters. You have zero credibility. You aren't a doctor. Every human body is different... reacts differently... to different compounds etc. You can take practically 20 guys on here and all 20 people wouldn't react the same to your so called... "TRUSTED ADVICE". Stop ensuing you know everything. You don't.

All you do is belittle everyone. How about "SUGGESTING THINGS??" Instead of GOING OFF!! And ATTACKING!! Unreal this guy.

Attacking you LOL It's called Kicking reality here!

You have been on here long enough to know BLUNT and STR8 to the POINT!

Again you keep beating around the bush!

Still going to deny your trough FT is high?

We keep doing reruns here!

Need to stop wasting your time hanging out on those mickey mouse forums as it clearly shows!

You are clearly caught upon that more T is better mentality bulls**t!

Give your head a shake.


'm tired of donating blood literally 6 pints a year. I'm tired of the recovery time... depleted minerals. EVERYTHING! Around every 65 days or so when it's time to donate blood my Hematocrit and Hemoglobin are HIGH. Roughly around 18.1 and 53% RBC around 6.18 million.

The goal is sexual performance... and libido. I'm hoping to feel better in that area.


Again running too high a trough/steady-state FT can be just as bad in many ways as running too low a FT especially when it come to libido and erectile function!

What is it you are having a hard time understanding here?

 

[madman]

Madman. You consider yourself an asset to this forum? You're just a loud mouth moderator in which pushes solid posters away from this forum. Don't really understand why Nelson would even allow it?? But hey... whatever it is. I've seen you attack other posters. You have zero credibility. You aren't a doctor. Every human body is different... reacts differently... to different compounds etc. You can take practically 20 guys on here and all 20 people wouldn't react the same to your so called... "TRUSTED ADVICE". Stop ensuing you know everything. You don't.

All you do is belittle everyone. How about "SUGGESTING THINGS??" Instead of GOING OFF!! And ATTACKING!! Unreal this guy.

Total Testosterone 863 ng/dL (Normal Range 175-781 ng/dL)

Again this means jack S**T without knowing where your trough FT sits!

Leaving out the most important blood marker.....go figure!

Your doctor knows best though!

 

[MarcoFL]

Stpfan, I don't know much about T since I'm newer on the board, but I sure know a lot about Lp(a); I had very high levels too (over 100). I had no family history of heart disease, but I developed severe heart blockage when it finally made itself known at the age of 41. My other blood markers were relatively normal, only the Lp(a) was out of whack. You shouldn't take that finding lightly. Most doctors told me that there is no way to control the Lp(a)(so just take even more statins), but I found a solution with Niacin (the one that gives you the flush). There is a book, Cholesterol Control without Diet by a Dr. Parsons, you should read it.

I've read many of Madman's posts, I find them very informative, and he has personally spent a lot of time helping me. He doesn't sugar coat things, and perhaps some people would misinterpret his writing style as being less than polite. I'm certain he intends only to help, and not to belittle.

agree...take the data from what he comes up with and use it. MM is what he is and I think he really gets into it. I would not want my wife to talk that way to me but I am fine with him on the forum and think he adds value.

 

[RotnGun]

Stpfan, Madman is absolutely correct in what he told you. He knows his stuff. You could try out a lower dose around 50 to 70 a week for 3 months and see how you feel after that time. I was in the 'more is better' crowd for awhile myself, and I really did not feel that great. It was only when I dropped my dosage down to 70mg a week when I started to notice a substantial difference, especially on test prop. Lets face it, you got nothing to loose when you think about it. If something like 50mg of test a week doesn't work out for you, then you can always go back to 84mg a week or higher and explore further