Lowering Test Cyp Dosage - Can't Sleep And Irritated

[granger]

It’s the sleep apnea or disease process that causes the harm, the high hematocrit is in response to the bodies lack of oxygen. High hematocrit is innocent in this case, in other words, the high hematocrit isn’t the causal factor in causing harm.

Sleep apnea causes high hematocrit, hypoxia and you want to blame the high hematocrit?

forsure other things going on, but this is why blood pressure stays elevated and stroke and CAVs increase. yes stress on the heart during sleep is part of it but DRs monitor hematocrit and increase in CBC to determine severity and how at risk someone is for a CAV.. that is to say, you can have apnea and low hematocrit ur at much lower risk than someone with higher blood counts even if have "milder" apnea.

articles about why elevated hematocrit is risk factor for stroke and heart disease. most people with heart disease dont have low hematocrit.

Relationship Between Hematocrit Level and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in a Community‐Based Population - PMC

This study aimed to determine the relationship between hematocrit (HCT) levels and cardiovascular risk factors in a community‐based population of middle‐aged adults. From April 2011 to February 2012, a total of 1,884 middle‐aged adults were selected ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

High hematocrit value is a risk factor for myocardial infarction

I read with interest the article on the positive correlation between the hematocrit value and the frequency of myocardial infarction (MI) after coronary artery bypass grafting (CABG) by Spiess and associates.1 That a high hematocrit value was associated with an increased risk for MI has been...

www.jtcvs.org

Hematocrit and risk of coronary heart disease: the Puerto Rico Heart Health Program

Hematocrit was determined in 2555 rural and 6151 urban men age 45 to 64 years participating in the Puerto Rico Heart Health Program, a prospective epi…

www.sciencedirect.com

https://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149(11)02753-6/fulltext

. "Current data suggest that increases in hemoglobin may decrease nitric oxide and adversely affect vascular function. In the preclinical setting, these changes could precipitate the development of heart failure (HF)."

as you see DECADES of research indicate it is bad and we know this anecdotal guys with elevated hematocrit gt higher blood pressure, higher blood pressure increases risks.. this is PART of why body builders are more prone to heart attacks. dont let internet DRs fool you MAJORITY of research indicated higher red blood cells are risk factor. this is also why EPO is dangerous aswell. Drs who say high hematocrit should have NO real issue RXing EPO. if have low RHR and are in ultra high cardio vascular shape would be perhaps 1 decoupling of the higher hematocrit, but all things equal as studies keep showing elevate RBC increase risk of HF/stroke etc. that whole platelet thing they attempt is simply a numbers game as platelets change frequently like when your sick. maybe your ok with high BP and high hematocrit as normally have lower platelets but guess what people get sick and platlets SPIKE and thats when heart attacks and strokes happen (just like we see in covid 3-6 months after infection as produce an increase % of immature platlets even when #s look OK).

anyway, of course we need contrarian scientist/DRs to question things, but FAR to much is taken as closer to fact than it is, and folks here seem to have a BIAS for everything TRT is GOOD. of course somethings arent as bad as we thought but that does not mean "no worries".

remember the main reason why sleep apnea is bad is because of increase blood pressure aswell as extra nightly stress on heart when your suppost to be resting. less sleep regardless of apnea will also raise HR and BP. ie many factors are making your cardio risk higher..

 

[Hammer]

I've been taking roughly around 130-135mg of Test Cyp a week and feeling great. Sleeping well etc. The issue is... I'm tired of donating blood literally 6 pints a year. I'm tired of the recovery time... depleted minerals. EVERYTHING! Around every 65 days or so when it's time to donate blood my Hematocrit and Hemoglobin are HIGH. Roughly around 18.1 and 53% RBC around 6.18 million. After donating 1 unit of blood my numbers go to 17.1 51.1% and RBC 5.92 million. Isn't that still too high?? What are your thoughts?

After gathering some info at this site and estimating probable Total Test Free Test after a Test Cyp reduction in dosing... I still believe I'd be at upper normal Trough levels. I'm taking roughly 85mg-88mg a week for the last 2 weeks and I feel AWFUL. Irriated. Can't sleep more than 4 hours without waking up. I understand your body has to adjust to a new dosage... but this is insane! I mean... could my body be telling me... I NEED MORE TEST CYP! Why are you doing this?

Again... I've tried this protocol before.... and it didn't help my lifestyle as in... getting things DONE! Sure, it helps reduce the blood thickness.... to some degree. But your overall well-being sucks! I literally don't want to donate blood anymore. I can't stand donating! What else can you do?

Not to mention... I've had major back tightness in my mid back, upper shoulders lately. It's been going on for the last 8 months. Doctors blame it on simple aging. I'm turning 47 soon... The upper back tightness is so extreme it's causing me headaches now. I have to take Ibuprofen to reduce the inflammation. Mind you.... all the Test Cyp I take is USA prescription grade... with that cottonseed carrier oil. Sometimes I wonder if that's causing it? I used to take that offshore Test Cyp with that MCT carrier oil? I don't recall having inflammation this high? I did have an MRI done and a neurosurgeon said there's nothing to be concerned about. Typical aging at 46 years of age.

Again, I was just trying to cut down on blood donations... like maybe once a year? Or how about ZERO A YEAR? Yeah.... that's the idea. Low Test makes you batty. Good day gentlemen.

I have been on TRT for 12 years and have battled insomnia with all sorts of drugs. my initial protocol was 100 mg test cap per week. This yielded test levels in the 1200 -1300 range with an above average free test level. My E2 always hung out in the 38 - 40 range unless I took Arimidex. I always suspected that the increased E2 was the culprit however after taking the arimidex, my insomnia prevailed. I always had very low pregnenolone levels and slightly low DHEA levels while taking testosterone. Fast forward until today, I can finally sleep without ambient or any other sleep aid. I attribute the change to lowering my testosterone cypionate to 42mg/week. I had recently been injecting 54mg/week. I inject on M,W and F. I am also taking 5mg of pregnenolone and 25mg of DHEA in an effort to raise my levels. The supplements have had no impact on my sleep. I have taken these in the pst at higher dosages and it caused ringing in my ears so I discontinued taking them. I also take melatonin 3mg that contain probiotics at night. I have taken many different dosages of melatonin in the past with no success sleeping. I completely attribute the ability to sleep on lowering my testosterone levels. I am 67 years old and would like to keep my testosterone higher than 600 since I workout religiously. That said, I'd rather be able to sleep at night. Best of luck in your pursuit to balance things out!

 

[Gman86]

forsure other things going on, but this is why blood pressure stays elevated and stroke and CAVs increase. yes stress on the heart during sleep is part of it but DRs monitor hematocrit and increase in CBC to determine severity and how at risk someone is for a CAV.. that is to say, you can have apnea and low hematocrit ur at much lower risk than someone with higher blood counts even if have "milder" apnea.

articles about why elevated hematocrit is risk factor for stroke and heart disease. most people with heart disease dont have low hematocrit.

Relationship Between Hematocrit Level and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in a Community‐Based Population - PMC

This study aimed to determine the relationship between hematocrit (HCT) levels and cardiovascular risk factors in a community‐based population of middle‐aged adults. From April 2011 to February 2012, a total of 1,884 middle‐aged adults were selected ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

High hematocrit value is a risk factor for myocardial infarction

I read with interest the article on the positive correlation between the hematocrit value and the frequency of myocardial infarction (MI) after coronary artery bypass grafting (CABG) by Spiess and associates.1 That a high hematocrit value was associated with an increased risk for MI has been...

www.jtcvs.org

Hematocrit and risk of coronary heart disease: the Puerto Rico Heart Health Program

Hematocrit was determined in 2555 rural and 6151 urban men age 45 to 64 years participating in the Puerto Rico Heart Health Program, a prospective epi…

www.sciencedirect.com

https://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149(11)02753-6/fulltext

. "Current data suggest that increases in hemoglobin may decrease nitric oxide and adversely affect vascular function. In the preclinical setting, these changes could precipitate the development of heart failure (HF)."

as you see DECADES of research indicate it is bad and we know this anecdotal guys with elevated hematocrit gt higher blood pressure, higher blood pressure increases risks.. this is PART of why body builders are more prone to heart attacks. dont let internet DRs fool you MAJORITY of research indicated higher red blood cells are risk factor. this is also why EPO is dangerous aswell. Drs who say high hematocrit should have NO real issue RXing EPO. if have low RHR and are in ultra high cardio vascular shape would be perhaps 1 decoupling of the higher hematocrit, but all things equal as studies keep showing elevate RBC increase risk of HF/stroke etc. that whole platelet thing they attempt is simply a numbers game as platelets change frequently like when your sick. maybe your ok with high BP and high hematocrit as normally have lower platelets but guess what people get sick and platlets SPIKE and thats when heart attacks and strokes happen (just like we see in covid 3-6 months after infection as produce an increase % of immature platlets even when #s look OK).

anyway, of course we need contrarian scientist/DRs to question things, but FAR to much is taken as closer to fact than it is, and folks here seem to have a BIAS for everything TRT is GOOD. of course somethings arent as bad as we thought but that does not mean "no worries".

remember the main reason why sleep apnea is bad is because of increase blood pressure aswell as extra nightly stress on heart when your suppost to be resting. less sleep regardless of apnea will also raise HR and BP. ie many factors are making your cardio risk higher..

Don’t studies show that people that live at higher altitudes, are at lower risk for experiencing cardiovascular events?

 

[Systemlord]

Don’t studies show that people that live at higher altitudes, are at lower risk for experiencing cardiovascular events?

Here’s a study that looks at all altitude groups, low altitude, mid altitude, and high altitude.

Stroke-Related Mortality at Different Altitudes: A 17-Year Nationwide Population-Based Analysis From Ecuador - PMC

Introduction: Worldwide, more than 5.7% of the population reside above 1,500 m of elevation. It has been hypothesized that acute short-term hypoxia exposure could increase the risk of developing a stroke. Studies assessing the effect of altitude on ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

High altitude populations (HAP) had lower stroke mortality in men [OR: 0.91 (0.88–0.95)] and women [OR: 0.83 (0.79–0.86)]. In addition, HAP had a significant lower risk of getting admitted to the hospital when compared with the low altitude group in men [OR: 0.55 (CI 95% 0.54–0.56)] and women [OR: 0.65 (CI 95% 0.64–0.66)].

Conclusion: This is the first epidemiological study that aims to elucidate the association between stroke and altitude using four different elevation ranges. Our findings suggest that living at higher elevations offers a reduction or the risk of dying due to stroke as well as a reduction in the probability of being admitted to the hospital. Nevertheless, this protective factor has a stronger effect between 2,000 and 3,500 m.

 

[Cataceous]

... Fast forward until today, I can finally sleep without ambient or any other sleep aid. I attribute the change to lowering my testosterone cypionate to 42mg/week. ... I am 67 years old and would like to keep my testosterone higher than 600 since I workout religiously. That said, I'd rather be able to sleep at night. Best of luck in your pursuit to balance things out!

I made a similar discovery regarding testosterone and sleep, and I take a similar amount of testosterone, equivalent to 44 mg testosterone cypionate (TC)/week. If you're inclined to experiment then you can possibly benefit by introducing diurnal variation to your protocol. While injecting TC three times a week it's likely there's not a lot of variation in your serum testosterone. If we posit that sleep quality is inversely related to testosterone levels earlier in the night then the problem is clear: With constant serum testosterone you are limited by what you can tolerate overnight. The solution is to inject daily a blend of TC and testosterone propionate (TP). The relatively short half-life of TP allows for a significant variation in levels during the day. This somewhat mimics what is seen in normal young men. The ester blend is injected upon waking. Levels rise quickly and reach a peak in 2-6 hours, then drop monotonically until the next injection the following morning. Using this technique you can reach a peak testosterone over 600 ng/dL earlier in the day, and reap benefits from these higher levels. Then by night levels are significantly lower, possibly aiding sleep.

Here's a thread on the technical aspects of creating an ester blend:

Tips on how to blend propionate with enanthate (or cypionate)?

I have been having some success with low dose daily propionate for the last several months. Dose levels have ranged from 8-10 mg injected every morning after waking. Overall, it has been a far better experience than my previous cypionate protocol of 80-100 per week (split every 3.5 days)...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Cataceous]

Here’s a study that looks at all altitude groups, low altitude, mid altitude, and high altitude.

...

Then there's this one we discussed previously:

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/HYPERTENSIONAHA.119.12780

Excessive erythrocytosis (EE; hemoglobin concentration [Hb] ≥21 g/dL in adult males) is associated with increased cardiovascular risk in highlander Andeans. ... Hyperviscosity, high Hb, or both, actively contribute to acutely reversible impairments in [flow-mediated dilation] in EE, suggesting that this plays a pathogenic role in the increased cardiovascular risk.​

In the same thread Nelson provides this link, suggesting greater vulnerability in subpopulations:

GREATER CHANGES IN HEMATOCRIT PREDICT MORE FREQUENT MAJOR ADVERSE CARDIAC EVENTS IN MEN INITIATED ON TESTOSTERONE THERAPY - A LARGE CLAIMS DATABASE ANALYSIS​

 

[Gman86]

Then there's this one we discussed previously:

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/HYPERTENSIONAHA.119.12780

Excessive erythrocytosis (EE; hemoglobin concentration [Hb] ≥21 g/dL in adult males) is associated with increased cardiovascular risk in highlander Andeans. ... Hyperviscosity, high Hb, or both, actively contribute to acutely reversible impairments in [flow-mediated dilation] in EE, suggesting that this plays a pathogenic role in the increased cardiovascular risk.​

In the same thread Nelson provides this link, suggesting greater vulnerability in subpopulations:

GREATER CHANGES IN HEMATOCRIT PREDICT MORE FREQUENT MAJOR ADVERSE CARDIAC EVENTS IN MEN INITIATED ON TESTOSTERONE THERAPY - A LARGE CLAIMS DATABASE ANALYSIS​

So based on research that u’ve done, what’s ur opinion? Do u think that people at elevation have a higher risk of experiencing cardiovascular events? I have no dog in the game, and don’t care one way or the other. Just curious what u think

 

[Cataceous]

So based on research that u’ve done, what’s ur opinion? Do u think that people at elevation have a higher risk of experiencing cardiovascular events? I have no dog in the game, and don’t care one way or the other. Just curious what u think

The matter isn't settled, but it seems likely that some individuals are at higher risk when living at altitude. Similarly, in TRT I think a subpopulation will run into problems when blood viscosity is elevated and blood pressure increases. A lot of this could be avoided with lower dosing, but the more-T-is-better philosophy often prevails.

 

[William Greystoke]

I've been taking roughly around 130-135mg of Test Cyp a week and feeling great. Sleeping well etc. The issue is... I'm tired of donating blood literally 6 pints a year. I'm tired of the recovery time... depleted minerals. EVERYTHING! Around every 65 days or so when it's time to donate blood my Hematocrit and Hemoglobin are HIGH. Roughly around 18.1 and 53% RBC around 6.18 million. After donating 1 unit of blood my numbers go to 17.1 51.1% and RBC 5.92 million. Isn't that still too high?? What are your thoughts?

After gathering some info at this site and estimating probable Total Test Free Test after a Test Cyp reduction in dosing... I still believe I'd be at upper normal Trough levels. I'm taking roughly 85mg-88mg a week for the last 2 weeks and I feel AWFUL. Irriated. Can't sleep more than 4 hours without waking up. I understand your body has to adjust to a new dosage... but this is insane! I mean... could my body be telling me... I NEED MORE TEST CYP! Why are you doing this?

Again... I've tried this protocol before.... and it didn't help my lifestyle as in... getting things DONE! Sure, it helps reduce the blood thickness.... to some degree. But your overall well-being sucks! I literally don't want to donate blood anymore. I can't stand donating! What else can you do?

Not to mention... I've had major back tightness in my mid back, upper shoulders lately. It's been going on for the last 8 months. Doctors blame it on simple aging. I'm turning 47 soon... The upper back tightness is so extreme it's causing me headaches now. I have to take Ibuprofen to reduce the inflammation. Mind you.... all the Test Cyp I take is USA prescription grade... with that cottonseed carrier oil. Sometimes I wonder if that's causing it? I used to take that offshore Test Cyp with that MCT carrier oil? I don't recall having inflammation this high? I did have an MRI done and a neurosurgeon said there's nothing to be concerned about. Typical aging at 46 years of age.

Again, I was just trying to cut down on blood donations... like maybe once a year? Or how about ZERO A YEAR? Yeah.... that's the idea. Low Test makes you batty. Good day gentlemen.

Donating will lower levels, but your body will get information that needs to produce more …so you are chasing in circle, no proven studies for higher levels on people on TRT, you should seek a symptom resolution, so keep you dosage in range where you feel best…Hydration but not simply with water, instead, try with electrolytes, also grapefruit seed extract supplements help…
Do not be scared with range levels , people live on high altitudes and have those numbers , no one is dropping dead

 

[Stpfan]

Just wanted to update this thread. As always... I appreciate everyone's input and enjoy reading all the comments! It gives me a different angle and perspective on things.

Currently, I'm still on this new protocol. I'm fighting it. I'm injecting every 4 days and again... the average for 7 days is about 85mg-88mg of Test cyp. I did donate 1 unit of blood with the Red Cross on June 25, 2024. Before the donation... they claim I was at 17.5 Hemoglobin. Blood pressure was 124/78. Depending on how accurate you believe it is without lab work (Red Cross Hemoglobin machine??) By lowering the Test Cyp dosage I actually decreased my Hemoglobin. Typically it's usually at 18.0 or 18.1 like clockwork.

Had sex with the wife on this new protocol and actually had a decent erection.... never lost it during sex. (I actually couldn't believe it. Typical I lose an erection within the minute.) No ED meds either. Decent sensations too. I wouldn't say these sensations felt like when I was 35 and under lol but I was surprised. Typically I never feel amazing "sex" sensations anymore. I still have to dial this in more. Yes, I am still taking an AI with this dosing. Hard to estimate... but doing the best I can... basically a slight dusting of the AI.

I'm currently under watch of a Urologist. He doesn't require frequent labs. I've been with him for about 1.5 years now. He runs a yearly Total Testosterone lab... and a CBC. He basically says... DO NOT have your RBC, Hemoglobin or Hematocrit above normal on any lab. Or I won't write the prescription. So basically... I just chill out on injecting for about a week or so... and have 1 Red Cross donation just before he requires me to run labs. It's kind of a pain in the a##. I have an appointment shortly with a new Endocrinologist in early July. Also, a new Cardiologist in July as well. I'm hoping both these doctors will order full panels of everything... so I can see what this new protocol is doing.

I haven't had a gym session with this new protocol. I honestly feel less energetic. I don't even know how my body would hold up in the gym. Strength wise I don't feel that strong.

I wanted to start taking 5mg or 10mg of Anavar a day.... just to spark up my mind and drive a bit. I just believe it's slow. I tried studying some threads here about HGH or similar peptides... but sort of scared to try it? But I believe that's what I need. Something extra. Never tried HGH or a peptide before. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? A great thread to read about this here? What labs do I need to look at when doing this? I figure I should be on a doctor's watch with HGH or peptide... but I don't even know who would be affordable or reasonably priced when adding this to a TRT program. Any website/doctor you recommend? As always... I appreciate your time and input. Thank you.

 

[granger]

I was thinking about systemlord today! latest JRE episode buddy who is researching neuro degenerative disorders was talking about importance of fibre also mirrored alot of my natural intuition.. of course not authority but talked about the silly arguments people make about plant protecting themselves etc. Max Lugavere is his name, interesting about parkinsons alzheimers at the very least.

@Stpfan i wouldn't worry about anavar as prob not really worth it, even low dose, depending on your goals there is safer things for energy. also as far as HGH and peptides, no one really has data on these GHRP long term as no post marketing data, while they may be ok and even safer, lack of evidence is not evidence even if peptide folks make you believe they are 100% safe. and of course high GH even naturally isnt great for longevity ie low end of reference range is ideal. anything off the black market has risks even the "pharma" as frequently faked, and god knows what ends up in there from all the ecoli puke. its essentially the same methods as biologic agents like vaccines etc so if trust them to make it "Clean" than all good, just something to keep in mind. and ya good to see a DR if want to know if GH is for you, have deep pockets, and make sure you get a few tests of IGF and GH levels prior to starting anything so have a solid baseline aswell as can see how your levels are and if worth it.

great seeing a uro AND endo as they obv have much deeper understanding of hormones.

 

[Mastodont]

You were thoroughly acclimated to taking roughly twice as much testosterone as you would make naturally at your best. It's no surprise that the withdrawal is taking time. For encouragement, read what @Simbarn says about weaning off of higher doses:

you dont think it could have something to do with poor t/e ratio, i have felt pretty bad with small amounts that result in physiological levels even when coming from hypogonadal levels, if the dosing was not done daily, but for example twice a week, the first day is usually good no matter the dose, but what happens when estradiol kicks in the days following is another story, .

 

[granger]

you dont think it could have something to do with poor t/e ratio, i have felt pretty bad with small amounts that result in physiological levels even when coming from hypogonadal levels, if the dosing was not done daily, but for example twice a week, the first day is usually good no matter the dose, but what happens when estradiol kicks in the days following is another story, .

what happens when estrogen kicks in?

 

[Mastodont]

what happens when estrogen kicks in?

I would assume that is the case, can't think what else, but you know, on the injection day mood and libido are good, as well as sensitivity, sex feels better, next day not so much for any of those, start feeling better and less moody as the ester has started to decline and less estradiol is produced. Pretty much see my options are dosing once or twice a week and playing with AI, or going daily and possibly avoid the AI play.
I should add to what i said in the previous post, sure it depends on shbg, but for total t, 125mg enanthate once weekly administered only results in 2 days per week when you are slightly over the range, and on the through you are slightly over the middle of range, so even if 125mg with ester is way more than natural production, most of the time you will still be inside the range.
I do believe the forementioned mechanism where smallish amounts but still boluses produce too much estradiol is the reason many do poorly on small amounts, the higher you go on the test dose the less estradiol is aromatized per given mg of t.

 

[granger]

test levels can cause libido effects so may not be estrogen. best to test before doing anything drastic like taking AI.

never underestimate the power of placebo either. heroin addicts can be given fake heroin and just shooting essentially water they start to feel better... similar to injecting test you have a ritual that you KNOW is going to make u horny etc..

also BETTER may not actually be normal either. like pain patients more opiates can make them FEEL better but may not have anything to do with actual pain levels.

but ya you could lower your weekly dose and take it daily aswell.. less ups and downs.

anyway, again id get blood work done before think its estrogen.. could be your riding on some micro amounts of natural hormone production esp from adrenals before they are shut down from your injection.

ALSO check out your prolactin levels.. as what you think estrogen could very much be prolactin...

 

[granger]

Here’s a study that looks at all altitude groups, low altitude, mid altitude, and high altitude.

Stroke-Related Mortality at Different Altitudes: A 17-Year Nationwide Population-Based Analysis From Ecuador - PMC

Introduction: Worldwide, more than 5.7% of the population reside above 1,500 m of elevation. It has been hypothesized that acute short-term hypoxia exposure could increase the risk of developing a stroke. Studies assessing the effect of altitude on ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

not to make a joke of this but seriously? this is HIGHLY HIGHLY flawed study on multiple levels. I would not base my health on a poor study like this esp when HUGE amounts of data point in other direction..

anyway, here is carnivor master wrote the book on carnivore.. and yet, finally figure out its bad...

. balance in all things

also link for the previous mentioned guy

.. of course youtube is youtube but may find some points interesting esp as comes from a highly reasonable stance and doesnt do strawman shtick.

 

[Systemlord]

not to make a joke of this but seriously? this is HIGHLY HIGHLY flawed study on multiple levels. I would not base my health on a poor study like this esp when HUGE amounts of data point in other direction..

anyway, here is carnivor master wrote the book on carnivore.. and yet, finally figure out its bad...

. balance in all things

also link for the previous mentioned guy

.. of course youtube is youtube but may find some points interesting esp as comes from a highly reasonable stance and doesnt do strawman shtick.

I remain unconvinced. Humans used to be apex predators eating only meat. We would be long extinct if an only meat diet was bad for us. We have smaller mouths and crooked teeth because we’re eating softer foods, chewing red meat creates a lot of pressure in our mouths and is very much needed.

You can look at our skeletal records and clearly see when the agriculture periodic started by simply looking at our skeletons. We are smaller than our past selves, brains, sculls and mouths smaller as a result of moving towards eating more vegetables.

As far as balance in all things, that’s not the way the Animal Kingdom works. Each species has its own species specific diet.

I refuse to derail another thread on the matter.

 

[granger]

you are very incorrect, infact shows gross misunderstanding of ALOT. and have been sold something and REFUSING to accept outside your world view is what the kids call boomer mentality.

lol sure we eat soft foods and can affect our teeth, but that is a HUGE leap to say ONLY EAT MEAT?? u get how that logically makes 0 sense? plenty of plants are hard to chew, for 1, but also you can eat meat AND plants and get just as much jaw strength. ever eat a kale chop salad? 10000% more chew than rib eyes.. so again, multiple levels very incorrect. not sure how people fool for such nonsense on blogs without SOME original thought.

having studied ethnobotany even ESKIMOs eat more than meat.. majority of ancient groups ate wide variety of foods.. even our closest relatives.

infact when we look at ANCIENT man like earliest records we can see tooth wear from PLANTS AND SEEDS.. amazing! again you have been grossly mislead.

look t our closest relatives with SHARPER teeth they are omnivores..

anyway you can believe the guy who actually wrote THE BOOK on what you believe as came to understand he was incorrect.

is it possible to survive if you eat ENTIRE animal including GUTS of animals? yes... is it optimal, no. you know you need to eat RAW ORGANS DAILY to get enough vitamin C right?

Evidence: earliest records show even neanderthals campsites had seeds mushrooms nuts berries/fruits.. do you not believe ALL physical evidence we have? its very silly IMO. esp if thats the cornerstone of your argument, as very incorrect. right next to the chinese argument that they eat ALOT of meat which only started last 20 years ie not the reason they often live longer.. if cant see you have been fed some questionable if nto imperially incorrect info i don't know what else i can say but perhaps read some textbooks...

curious why you think DOGS eat grass and berries and veggies? what about bears? apex as you say but also eat berries and veggies..anyway, i think you just drew conclusions and dont really have an understanding of animal kingdom nore physiology. which is fine, not trying to force you to do anything just hope you live till your 85!

 

[granger]

anyway even the guy who DANA WHITE uses changed his stance on only eating meat/keto... may be time to not be so dogmatic like vegetarians!

 

[Mastodont]

never underestimate the power of placebo either. heroin addicts can be given fake heroin and just shooting essentially water they start to feel better... similar to injecting test you have a ritual that you KNOW is going to make u horny etc..

If you were answering to me i'm not sure what you're referring to, it is clear as day that estradiol follows testosterone, so it makes perfect sense that on the injection day there is less estradiol present and for this reason i feel good in all areas. I feel worse the next day if the injection was 50mg then if it's 125mg, you do understand that if the mg release is same or close to same each day, the amount of estradiol produced per day remains pretty much static, but does not clear the system at the rate testosterone does. Have done labs and it is clear that as time has passed since injection i feel good and estradiol is in check, and a day or two since bolus t injection it is too high, the problem is more severe if you are trying to get by with say 50mg injections e3.5d, too much estradiol gets produced that floats around, even though testosterone levels would be sailing in a favourable range.
When it comes to prolactin, who cares really, not going to start a drug for that. Have never been high in prolactin but never did test it just the days following injection when i get the estradiol symptoms.