Thank you FL. I always enjoy your input to all the threads.
Looking for a good thyroid forum
- Thread starter rhino5169
- Start date
Thank you FL. I always enjoy your input to all the threads.
Vettester Chris
Super Moderator
checkout thyroidboards.com
I'll try to go through some of this tonight and see if there's anything I can add to the other knowledgeable members who have commented ...
I'll try to go through some of this tonight and see if there's anything I can add to the other knowledgeable members who have commented ...
Thank you Chris
With high E2 you will feel terrible. Because it negates all the effects from testosterone whether you are on it or not. I had high E2 like yours before I started TRT and I felt totally drained just like having CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome) So until you get your E2 to normal levels you are fighting a losing battle as far as feeling normal. I would start with getting this under control first. Thenthe next step perhaps could be to raise your FT3 slightly. Do one thing at a time until you stabilise what your working on. It'll take time to do this so don't rush it.
Ok, so I'm on aromasin, I forget the dose but I'll look tomorrow and it's 2x a week. Been 2 weeks or so and I don't feel any difference and I thought it was supposed to start working quickly. Maybe it's because I was so high it might take a few weeks. I don't know but that's what I'm theorizing.
Thanks
High E2 is a funny thing. I was on 1mg arimidex daily for a year and felt absolutely great and all of a sudden I came down with low E2 symptoms like sore joints and other stuff. I had to cut back significantly to get normal again. My shortcoming was that being in canada we couldn't get the sensitive E2 test. In your case you just have to get labs more often to see where you are. So yes it can take some time with higher doses and then it can change quickly once your body stabilises. Getting lab tests when you feel you are going downhill helps put you back on track. Getting E2 under control is the hardest thing I ever went thru. Of course this is of no surprise as your TT and FT levels are beyond normal. As your levels drop you will need less AI. So this plays into it as well.
Alright.....it definitely is priority number one. I just wonder if there is more than that holding me back at the same time, something thyroid related.
Thx
If your thyroid is off it isn't the end of the world many people live long lives with obvious symptoms of low thyroid... you can live with that if you have to but living with high E2 is hell. I would prioritise the E2 first. Along with that will be the amount of T you take because you are at supra physiological levels. So getting your E2 down to normal range will mean lowering your T as well. More labs...
Yes I've already lowered my T down to my trt dose. I forgot to mention that since hcg contributes to increasing E2 I temporarily suspended that and I cut back on the cream.
Thanks ratbag, helpful as usual.
Looking forward to Chris' point of view as well.
Vettester Chris
Super Moderator
Rhino, there's a lot going on, and some great comments from the community!
With the test 'blast' in the time frame of these labs, it definitely raises a few thoughts with wondering how that also could impact other labs (?). Just to confirm, was it only those compounds or was anything else in the mix, i.e deca, anavar, etc. It's no biggie, just trying to see the whole picture. Regardless, the body will start reacting (in time) when imbalances are sustained. Just wondering how the picture, including adrenals would look 6 weeks or so after returning to a normal regiment?
On the thyroid ... Some really good comments, Orrin, Ratbag and 1Draw are quite knowledgeable on this subject. On the RT3, IMO it's high, and I would suspect it is a marker that is reflecting other things going on, similar in contrast to the cortisol 4x panel. As indicated above, RT3 can increase during times of sickness, stress, pathology, etc. Increasing RT3 is the body's way to conserve energy while things work to get back in balance.
FT4 and FT3 would in my opinion (for most) be optimal in the 50% to 80% area of reference range. Yours are both under the 50%. Obviously if on a T3 medication, then T4 would reflect a lower value. Again, this would be my thoughts when things are optimal, and additionally RT3 would reflect in lower serum levels, and also in a FT3/RT3 ratio analysis (keep in mind that also can be a bit trivial if taking T3 only, with no T4).
Again, I concur with many of the comments above ... Ratbag said to put priority on E2, and he is correct. DNfuss said to address the diabetes first, which I also agree with ... I suggest addressing all of these areas, maybe go back to square 1, start fresh, and start slow. Evaluate the diet again, review your protocol(s), start titrating to a level that the body can sustain for the long run, and that you can count on for the best results. A cortisol report like that is telling you everything. By chance has your physician sat down with you on this, and does he/she see anything else that needs addressed?
With the test 'blast' in the time frame of these labs, it definitely raises a few thoughts with wondering how that also could impact other labs (?). Just to confirm, was it only those compounds or was anything else in the mix, i.e deca, anavar, etc. It's no biggie, just trying to see the whole picture. Regardless, the body will start reacting (in time) when imbalances are sustained. Just wondering how the picture, including adrenals would look 6 weeks or so after returning to a normal regiment?
On the thyroid ... Some really good comments, Orrin, Ratbag and 1Draw are quite knowledgeable on this subject. On the RT3, IMO it's high, and I would suspect it is a marker that is reflecting other things going on, similar in contrast to the cortisol 4x panel. As indicated above, RT3 can increase during times of sickness, stress, pathology, etc. Increasing RT3 is the body's way to conserve energy while things work to get back in balance.
FT4 and FT3 would in my opinion (for most) be optimal in the 50% to 80% area of reference range. Yours are both under the 50%. Obviously if on a T3 medication, then T4 would reflect a lower value. Again, this would be my thoughts when things are optimal, and additionally RT3 would reflect in lower serum levels, and also in a FT3/RT3 ratio analysis (keep in mind that also can be a bit trivial if taking T3 only, with no T4).
Again, I concur with many of the comments above ... Ratbag said to put priority on E2, and he is correct. DNfuss said to address the diabetes first, which I also agree with ... I suggest addressing all of these areas, maybe go back to square 1, start fresh, and start slow. Evaluate the diet again, review your protocol(s), start titrating to a level that the body can sustain for the long run, and that you can count on for the best results. A cortisol report like that is telling you everything. By chance has your physician sat down with you on this, and does he/she see anything else that needs addressed?
Dr Justin Saya MD
Moderator
Another informative site a patient alerted me to just a few weeks ago and (WOW) the community has collectively supplied a goldmine of information and recommendations:
http://Rt3-adrenals.org
http://Rt3-adrenals.org
Thanks Chris.
No there were no compounds other than what I listed.
Thyroid - I'm thinking I should incorporate the np thyroid back in and do labs in a few weeks to see if my ratio improves.
If I remember correctly you said the same thing months ago on a previous lab, so if that was the case and my ratio is consistently lower than it should be, what is the course of action to make it ideal?
I'm not clear on your comment of the high rt3, but it sounds like you think it may be a one time anomaly due to something else going on?
Ok, so I've already gone back to my trt dose and switched to a different AI. Time to restart as you say.
One more question though concerning next labwork....
If I go in 2 weeks that will tell me if I'm heading in the right direction with the AI to see if E2 is coming down and also with Thyroid numbers. Should I wait 5 weeks or so to let my free and total T come down before next labs? I feel I may be wasting those extra few weeks though by not checking E2 and thyroid soon.....
Thanks again for all the insight everyone.
Chris that forum you linked to looks great. Going to check it out tomorrow.
No there were no compounds other than what I listed.
Thyroid - I'm thinking I should incorporate the np thyroid back in and do labs in a few weeks to see if my ratio improves.
If I remember correctly you said the same thing months ago on a previous lab, so if that was the case and my ratio is consistently lower than it should be, what is the course of action to make it ideal?
I'm not clear on your comment of the high rt3, but it sounds like you think it may be a one time anomaly due to something else going on?
Ok, so I've already gone back to my trt dose and switched to a different AI. Time to restart as you say.
One more question though concerning next labwork....
If I go in 2 weeks that will tell me if I'm heading in the right direction with the AI to see if E2 is coming down and also with Thyroid numbers. Should I wait 5 weeks or so to let my free and total T come down before next labs? I feel I may be wasting those extra few weeks though by not checking E2 and thyroid soon.....
Thanks again for all the insight everyone.
Chris that forum you linked to looks great. Going to check it out tomorrow.
Thank you Dr. Saya, will be checking that out also.
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Yes both. It was to increase dht which it did. Before I did the short blast my total T was always fine at around 1000.
I dont have in front of me but it think it was 50mg/ml.
Thanks. where can find this calculator?
The magic question is how do I get from 'low normal' into to the top normal? Increase dosages? Something else?
If you intend to adjust everything this would be my opinion.
Your high RT3 is possibly because of lowish ferritin so i would sup small doses of iron like 25mg daily with 1000mg vit C, hopefully this may reduce your RT3. You have to wait 6 weeks and get labs to see the result
To increase T3 yeah perhaps take 1-2 grain of NDT daily in the morning
Your copper is lowish and that can cause issues so perhaps supp some copper/zinc
Your pregnenolone is low so I would supp 25mg daily. Dr. Crisler suggests 25mg morning and night.
Your DHT is too high so I would reduce your cream to one squirt daily
Keep on this regime for 6 weeks and get new labs to see where you have to go. The problem with doing so many changes at once is that any one of these changes could make a big difference and in 6 week you could still be way off on your labs.
Your high RT3 is possibly because of lowish ferritin so i would sup small doses of iron like 25mg daily with 1000mg vit C, hopefully this may reduce your RT3. You have to wait 6 weeks and get labs to see the result
To increase T3 yeah perhaps take 1-2 grain of NDT daily in the morning
Your copper is lowish and that can cause issues so perhaps supp some copper/zinc
Your pregnenolone is low so I would supp 25mg daily. Dr. Crisler suggests 25mg morning and night.
Your DHT is too high so I would reduce your cream to one squirt daily
Keep on this regime for 6 weeks and get new labs to see where you have to go. The problem with doing so many changes at once is that any one of these changes could make a big difference and in 6 week you could still be way off on your labs.
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