Issues regarding Sustanon

[Vonko1988]

Hello.
I started TRT 3 weeks ago with sustanon, however it seems it has been a mistake starting with this ester. The issue with cypionate and enanthate is I need to take them from a neighbouring country or UGL.

So my protocol is 20mg daily. However I learned that in every 20mg sustanon from the ampule the ratio/quantity of the 4 different esters can differ, that the substance is not homogenous. Is that true? Like today injecting x amount from the propinate for example, tomorrow injecting more propinate and less decanoate compared to today and so on.

In my mind this looks like I will never achieve stable levels even with daily injections...

 

[Cataceous]

I've heard of no concerns about ester separation in these solutions. With daily injections you will reach a steady state where each day's testosterone profile is like the previous day's. Assuming Sustanon 250, you will have a small amount of daily variation from the propionate ester, and to a lesser extent from the phenylpropionate. I'd guess an upper limit on this variation is +/-15% about the mean. This variation may even be desirable, because young men can have diurnal variations of up to at least +/-30%.

 

[Vonko1988]

I've heard of no concerns about ester separation in these solutions. With daily injections you will reach a steady state where each day's testosterone profile is like the previous day's. Assuming Sustanon 250, you will have a small amount of daily variation from the propionate ester, and to a lesser extent from the phenylpropionate. I'd guess an upper limit on this variation is +/-15% about the mean. This variation may even be desirable, because young men can have diurnal variations of up to at least +/-30%.

I fear not to have variations from the decanoate ester, because it is the longest one. If it will be 15 percent I think I will be ok provided I manage to raise my levels enough.

With sustanon it will take longer to raise levels than cypionate, right?

Yesterday I tested total T it was 676 ng/dl, before TRT I was at 576(I have high SHBG to overcome). But at that dose I can expect much more increase when the decanoate builds up, right?

 

[Cataceous]

...
With sustanon it will take longer to raise levels than cypionate, right?

Yesterday I tested total T it was 676 ng/dl, before TRT I was at 576(I have high SHBG to overcome). But at that dose I can expect much more increase when the decanoate builds up, right?

Yes to both questions. The general rule is four or five half-lives to be close to steady state. One source puts the half-life of decanoate at 7.5 days. This suggests around 30-38 days for stabilization. So you likely will see a further increase in serum testosterone over the next two weeks, though nothing dramatic.

 

[Vonko1988]

Yes to both questions. The general rule is four or five half-lives to be close to steady state. One source puts the half-life of decanoate at 7.5 days. This suggests around 30-38 days for stabilization. So you likely will see a further increase in serum testosterone over the next two weeks, though nothing dramatic.

I read the decanoate half life is 15 days.
I hope for significant raise and target levels of at least 1000. Do you think I should raise dose or wait at this one?

 

[Cataceous]

I read the decanoate half life is 15 days.
I hope for significant raise and target levels of at least 1000. Do you think I should raise dose or wait at this one?

I'd tend to trust the shorter half-life figure. I would wait some weeks to see how I felt before changing anything. In addition, why target a number? You should be looking for a dose that makes you feel good without causing side effects. "Low and slow."

 

[M.J]

Hello.
I started TRT 3 weeks ago with sustanon, however it seems it has been a mistake starting with this ester. The issue with cypionate and enanthate is I need to take them from a neighbouring country or UGL.

So my protocol is 20mg daily. However I learned that in every 20mg sustanon from the ampule the ratio/quantity of the 4 different esters can differ, that the substance is not homogenous. Is that true? Like today injecting x amount from the propinate for example, tomorrow injecting more propinate and less decanoate compared to today and so on.

In my mind this looks like I will never achieve stable levels even with daily injections...

I didn’t notice any of this during my sustanon period I don’t think it work like the way you put it.

 

[Vonko1988]

I'd tend to trust the shorter half-life figure. I would wait some weeks to see how I felt before changing anything. In addition, why target a number? You should be looking for a dose that makes you feel good without causing side effects. "Low and slow."

Well considering how that I started TRT with relatively high total test and SHBG it is logical to assume I will need significantly higher numbers to cause symptoms resolution.

By the way interestingly since starting TRT my estrogen decreased from 25 to 23ng/l but I guess because I started take zinc due to doctors recommendation. I dont like this low estrogen but I guess it will rise to at least 40 at some point

Also my hematocrit is still on the pre TRT level of 45 but I know it is too early for that to start causing issues

 

[Cataceous]

Well considering how that I started TRT with relatively high total test and SHBG it is logical to assume I will need significantly higher numbers to cause symptoms resolution.
...

The newer research on free testosterone shows that higher SHBG causes less reduction than previously believed. Run your numbers through the Tru-T calculator and compare the result to the healthy normal range of 16-31 ng/dL.

 

[Vonko1988]

The newer research on free testosterone shows that higher SHBG causes less reduction than previously believed. Run your numbers through the Tru-T calculator and compare the result to the healthy normal range of 16-31 ng/dL.

My SHBG came out reduced seems after the T. For 2 and a half weeks it dropped from 52 to 43 and Im still on the cabergoline.

With the new calculator my free test is 19.99ng/dl, but everybody compares to the old according to which my free test is now 11.2 ng/dl. And the healthy reference range in my understanding was developed over the old one

By the way today I feel awesome. Hope this sustains.
Hope with this sustanon to reach steady levels. Otherwise I will switch to enanthate at some point but not now

 

[Vonko1988]

I want to get stable so I try to incorporate HCG as well. I want to keep some fertility

 

[at15]

im in the transition now from enanthate to sustanon its rough at the beginning. the enanthate is fading away and your basically just living on the small amount of prop/phenylprop in the sustanon at the start. recommend a front load. first week inject 1cc (250mg sus), then start whatever protocol your doing on week 2.

 

[Cataceous]

...
With the new calculator my free test is 19.99ng/dl, but everybody compares to the old according to which my free test is now 11.2 ng/dl. And the healthy reference range in my understanding was developed over the old one

By the way today I feel awesome. Hope this sustains.
...

The Tru-T reference range is not based on older methods, so your 20 ng/dL on a 16-31 scale is at least ok. And if you continue to feel good then there's no need to change.

I want to get stable so I try to incorporate HCG as well. I want to keep some fertility

HCG can be really great or really bad, depending on the individual. I'm one that really needs it to get my best results from TRT, but even then it raises my estradiol by ~18 pg/mL, which isn't something I need. It usually does help with fertility.

 

[Vonko1988]

im in the transition now from enanthate to sustanon its rough at the beginning. the enanthate is fading away and your basically just living on the small amount of prop/phenylprop in the sustanon at the start. recommend a front load. first week inject 1cc (250mg sus), then start whatever protocol your doing on week 2.

Why would you make such a transition?

 

[Vonko1988]

The Tru-T reference range is not based on older methods, so your 20 ng/dL on a 16-31 scale is at least ok. And if you continue to feel good then there's no need to change.


HCG can be really great or really bad, depending on the individual. I'm one that really needs it to get my best results from TRT, but even then it raises my estradiol by ~18 pg/mL, which isn't something I need. It usually does help with fertility.

I made two HCG 500ui injections before I started TRT and I felt horrible two hours after injection. But I usually fee bad with every new substance I start, even supplements and vitamins. It goes away after 2-3 weeks so I hope with HCG as well. I have plenty of room for estradiol, but I know there are other side effects. I hope to keep my fertility.
The doctor recommended me 2x250 weekly

 

[at15]

Why would you make such a transition?

not much choice outside the first world. inject what the pharmacies have in stock.