Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
Congrats for helping your lady (and yourself)!
How bad of an idea would it be to give my wife some T-cyp?
- Thread starter FunkOdyssey
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- women hrt women libido
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
Have you guys tried DHEA?
A dose-response and meta-analysis of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) supplementation on testosterone levels: perinatal prediction of randomized clinical trials
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) has been aggressively sold as a dietary supplement to boost testosterone levels although the impact of DHEA supplementat…
www.sciencedirect.com
Effects of DHEA Supplementation on Testosterone Levels
Summary:
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) supplementation has been found to increase plasma testosterone levels in various subgroups. Specifically, the increment was higher in females, participants who received a higher dose (>50 mg/day) of DHEA, those who took the supplement for less than 12 weeks, healthy subjects, and younger participants (below 60 years old). However, the physiological or clinical significance of these increases remains unclear.
The greater increase in plasma testosterone levels in female recipients of DHEA supplements aligns with multiple studies. The levels of plasma testosterone significantly increase upon DHEA supplementation for women, especially those suffering from hypoactive sexual desire disorder, middle-age, and older women. The difference in testosterone level changes between male and female subjects can be attributed to the higher basal levels of testosterone in men.
A higher intake of DHEA supplement (>50 mg/day) theoretically results in a more significant increase in testosterone levels, provided that the testosterone biosynthesis pathways are not disrupted. However, it is worth noting that higher DHEA dosages could lead to undesirable side effects. Lastly, we hypothesize that older and unhealthy subjects, who may have genetic or metabolic disorders, might not fully restore the activity of testosterone biosynthesis merely by DHEA supplementation.
References:
- Casson et al., 1998
- Malik et al., 2015
- Morales et al., 2009
- Poretsky et al., 2006
- Villareal and Holloszy, 2004
- Carruthers et al., 2007
- Corona et al., 2013
- Bloch et al., 2013
- Collomp et al., 2018
- Gurnell et al., 2008
- Genazzani et al., 2011
- Srinivasan et al., 2009
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FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
We haven't tried DHEA yet. Now that the cream is working, I don't want to touch anything and potentially mess with success. That may have been a good option to try before cream though.
VacationMan
Active Member
My wife started down the path of Tcyp shots. Doc had her set as a "high flyer". Her test levels were significantly elevated. Aromatase happens, so it also boosted her estrogen levels. Her libido was good (really good)...for a while. Then she started growing facial hair which led her to laser treatments.
Best bet: Get with the professionals at Defy and have her work with them for her HRT. They'll customize a plan that works. That's where my wife goes now and it's been a wonderful experience.
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
Yeah that's what we ended up doing (going to Defy). I think I could have pushed the T cyp dosage to a point that would have helped but I didn't have the confidence to do that on my own. Your facial hair comment speaks to my concerns with the DIY approach.
Why did they switch her from injections to cream?
Do u mind if I ask what ur wife’s complete protocol looks like?
Also, is there anything that defy ended up prescribing for the increased DHT levels? Like spironolactone, for example?
Think prog can decrease DHT levels also. Not sure if putting a woman on exogenous prog could help mitigate hair growth issues. At least hair where they don’t want it lol
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
The highest we went was 10.5 mg weekly with the T cypionate, which had no discernable benefit. I think I saw a study that indicated 25 mg weekly was needed for significant sexual benefits in women, and 12.5 mg or less did not do very much. I've also seen some anecdotes on FB groups where women do have sexual benefits in the 6 - 10 mg weekly range. The response is probably unique to the individual like everything else.
Yes, she is doing well with two clicks of the 15 mg/ml cream, once daily on the inner thigh (providing 7.5 mg of topical testosterone daily).
Ya from the anecdotes I’ve seen from women on HRT, 10mg/ week of cyp seems to be the average/ most common dose I’ve seen them do well on. And most of them report a much improved libido on 10mg/ week. I can’t even imagine the libido most women would have on say 25mg/ week. Sounds like it would be fun tho lol
my ex was on 10mg/ week of cyp for a bit, prescribed by defy, and it definitely upped her libido. But her libido wasn’t bad before. Just higher on 10mg/ week of cyp
my ex was on 10mg/ week of cyp for a bit, prescribed by defy, and it definitely upped her libido. But her libido wasn’t bad before. Just higher on 10mg/ week of cyp
please dont RX your gf or wife hormones and think u know what good labs are or what to even look for. even men most guys THINK they know what labs to watch and host of others that are clueless about what it could mean. @ed031561 woman are more complicated and have other risks with hormones men do not ESP with esters.
go to a compounding pharmacy, pay the 150$ for a consult or go to a HRT clinic specific for woman. there are other hormones at play and need to be balanced for optimum health.. find a place that wants to start u CRAZY low and see how u feel, dont worry about what others take or say is the best. ESP for woman as a little more of a couple things may be having her feel great all while keeping risks close to 0, vs cookie cutter that say " I have 200 woman on this exact dosing and they love it" sure but may be able to take 1/4 of that and enjoy similar benefits, its not like men who E and T and thyroid and thick blood/BP are the only things to watch. she may be at risk for a stroke with high blood pressure and your looking at her bloods isn't going to tell u much, ladies even with low BP often are the ones to stroke and cannot tolerate slightly elevated BP like men. its not just Test that helps preserve bones. aswell as woman dont need test as high as there peak few days they have testosterone during the month. If building muscle with no change other than T that means your prob way higher than she was as a teenager.
guys shouldn't self administer trt and FORSURE woman shouldn't esp to start out. hormones are far more complicated than BB forums make it seem. super important woman especially menopausal are under dr care to make sure aren't growing cancers or cysts on the ovaries etc.
just hope its not from UGL when god knows what extra shit for feels they may add.
the few hundred in savings will go fast if something goes sideways and end up in hospital with a stroke. Drs carefully look at risks, self administering u really are playing with fire even though intentions are good and may have a decent understanding at limited blood panels u self order. not to mention the reason HRT got a bad rap for woman was because of long acting esters(and high dose horse pee and non bio identical hormone analogs) at high doses, creams have proven to be much safer for woman and because they aren't looking for anabolic effects lower daily peaks are enough to keep side effects low and keep symptoms at bay. I mean ive seen ladies take the old school HRT and have terrible time even under DR supervision, so really important talk to specialists like compounding pharmacists who do it day in day out and spend actual hours speaking with the ladies. or find a non money grubbing hot clinic that really personalizes things, ideally both...esp in the states where such resources are plentiful.
also lets be honest about even pharma having 10% Dif in dosages which is fine for 100mg per week in a male but when your taking 0.05ml of 250mg/ml test cyp thats a very small amount and easy to get another 15% difference there hope you use the .3ml insulin syringes and nothing with removable needle with larger gauge than insulin.
glad she feels good but remember, the better you feel from drugs 9/10 times the larger the price u pay. just like men, 600mg+ of test a week may feel AWESOME, but your shortening your life no matter the effort in taking other drugs with other side effects or give blood regularly to combat it. more ambien may make your sleep even better but its ruining your brain, same with anti depressants or opiates. lowest effective dose should be your mantra, why take 14mg if 5mg of test is all u need with some light weights and calcium and D3 and K.
anyhoo, im a conservative forsure, guess I need more test so im not scared of everything lol
. im not saying I know everything, just know enough that even alot of Drs are stupid, and 99% of us aren't as smart as even the stupid Drs. lol little off topic but I think the stupid drs mostly are just jaded prob got it right more than wrong over the years, just sucks when ur part of the 15% they are getting it wrong for and gave u a diagnoses and RX in their head before u even finished your second sentence. anyhoo
go to a compounding pharmacy, pay the 150$ for a consult or go to a HRT clinic specific for woman. there are other hormones at play and need to be balanced for optimum health.. find a place that wants to start u CRAZY low and see how u feel, dont worry about what others take or say is the best. ESP for woman as a little more of a couple things may be having her feel great all while keeping risks close to 0, vs cookie cutter that say " I have 200 woman on this exact dosing and they love it" sure but may be able to take 1/4 of that and enjoy similar benefits, its not like men who E and T and thyroid and thick blood/BP are the only things to watch. she may be at risk for a stroke with high blood pressure and your looking at her bloods isn't going to tell u much, ladies even with low BP often are the ones to stroke and cannot tolerate slightly elevated BP like men. its not just Test that helps preserve bones. aswell as woman dont need test as high as there peak few days they have testosterone during the month. If building muscle with no change other than T that means your prob way higher than she was as a teenager.
guys shouldn't self administer trt and FORSURE woman shouldn't esp to start out. hormones are far more complicated than BB forums make it seem. super important woman especially menopausal are under dr care to make sure aren't growing cancers or cysts on the ovaries etc.
just hope its not from UGL when god knows what extra shit for feels they may add.
the few hundred in savings will go fast if something goes sideways and end up in hospital with a stroke. Drs carefully look at risks, self administering u really are playing with fire even though intentions are good and may have a decent understanding at limited blood panels u self order. not to mention the reason HRT got a bad rap for woman was because of long acting esters(and high dose horse pee and non bio identical hormone analogs) at high doses, creams have proven to be much safer for woman and because they aren't looking for anabolic effects lower daily peaks are enough to keep side effects low and keep symptoms at bay. I mean ive seen ladies take the old school HRT and have terrible time even under DR supervision, so really important talk to specialists like compounding pharmacists who do it day in day out and spend actual hours speaking with the ladies. or find a non money grubbing hot clinic that really personalizes things, ideally both...esp in the states where such resources are plentiful.
also lets be honest about even pharma having 10% Dif in dosages which is fine for 100mg per week in a male but when your taking 0.05ml of 250mg/ml test cyp thats a very small amount and easy to get another 15% difference there hope you use the .3ml insulin syringes and nothing with removable needle with larger gauge than insulin.
glad she feels good but remember, the better you feel from drugs 9/10 times the larger the price u pay. just like men, 600mg+ of test a week may feel AWESOME, but your shortening your life no matter the effort in taking other drugs with other side effects or give blood regularly to combat it. more ambien may make your sleep even better but its ruining your brain, same with anti depressants or opiates. lowest effective dose should be your mantra, why take 14mg if 5mg of test is all u need with some light weights and calcium and D3 and K.
anyhoo, im a conservative forsure, guess I need more test so im not scared of everything lol
. im not saying I know everything, just know enough that even alot of Drs are stupid, and 99% of us aren't as smart as even the stupid Drs. lol little off topic but I think the stupid drs mostly are just jaded prob got it right more than wrong over the years, just sucks when ur part of the 15% they are getting it wrong for and gave u a diagnoses and RX in their head before u even finished your second sentence. anyhoo
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When my wife was on 10mg per week she said libido was so strong she would orgasm in her sleep then would impact desire for sex just FYI. Balance-slow and steady win the life long race. Being reasonable helps too guys!
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
The other thing I should mention with my wife's failed t cyp trial: I was giving injections every 3rd day. Did I keep her levels too steady and diminish the libido effects that way? Would she have fared better on the once weekly protocol that seems to work better for male libido? Unanswered questions.
Please elaborate. Why do you consider "esters" to be problematic?
Now you're speaking my language. But even a respected place like Defy Medical is starting guys at 150 TC/week, so it may not be easy to find a professional who would strike the right balance.
How does your ideal professional address these then? What routine screenings are recommended by Defy, for example?
Definitely agree.
Have y'all looked into bio-identical testosterone pellets for women? My woman has been on them since 2018 to stimulate libido and achieve O. Great results. Many gynecologists can prescribe/administer. So does her skin specialist who does cosmetic facial injections. It's a slow release pellet placed under the skin in the buttocks after adequate lidocaine. There's been Clitoral growth - nothing freakish, actually more attractive to both of us. Can get pellet quarterly but she will let it go 5-6 months instead of exactly at 3 months to keep efficacy high and fears of long term issues (which would be amen as T I think). Brand name of BioT. Supposed to be a plant derived hormone therapy. In wide use but don't think FDA (as if they had credibility left anyway) approved. It's a game changer! Good luck!
Nice that it's working for "your woman," but I'd still advise others to avoid this option. Why tolerate a minor operation every few months just to take testosterone? It's also usually expensive. And surely it's not something to start out with. Do you wait a few months if the dose is wrong, or do you get cut open again? The "bio-identical" label has little meaning with respect to testosterone. Any testosterone-based product yields bio-identical testosterone.
Pellets would not be considered bio identical as assumed it's Ester based not. The term bio identical is often used incorrectly and because of that folks say it's BS as all test is test.
The term bio identical was used for woman firstly because analogs were used aswell as large dose oral forms. So bio identical was used to seperate the old idea of non pulcitile/analogs/Ester. Vs short acting base forms. This was to distinguish the harsher forms with greater side effects. Like how long acting test Ester s have more sides than test base creams/gel. So while yes once remove Ester from test for example it's used by the body the same as test. Also should be noted even test base is not exactly the same as natural test and has folded dimmer of test which may or may not have activity in our bodies and potentially isoforms isomers in different ratios(have not researxhed that so may be wrong however dimmers of test is a thing, weather or not Ester have more pr less or differing from Ester to Ester í dunno but MAY have something to do with side effects differing from similar length Ester won't pretend to know with any certainty) test and forsure hgh or hcg are not singular things rather groups of molecules with somewhat differing actions ie ideally men want alpha hcg and not the 2 or 3 other common forms. I have no idea if all pee base hcg(vs recombinant ecoli made) is the same, maybe purificstion has slight differences in ratios and unfortunate the iu is based on effects on woman and not purely á mg=iu, and one can assume if variances from brand or batch of alpha that technically the iu for men would be different than woman. Anyway way off topic and doing a bad job explaining and not a Dr.
The term bio identical was used for woman firstly because analogs were used aswell as large dose oral forms. So bio identical was used to seperate the old idea of non pulcitile/analogs/Ester. Vs short acting base forms. This was to distinguish the harsher forms with greater side effects. Like how long acting test Ester s have more sides than test base creams/gel. So while yes once remove Ester from test for example it's used by the body the same as test. Also should be noted even test base is not exactly the same as natural test and has folded dimmer of test which may or may not have activity in our bodies and potentially isoforms isomers in different ratios(have not researxhed that so may be wrong however dimmers of test is a thing, weather or not Ester have more pr less or differing from Ester to Ester í dunno but MAY have something to do with side effects differing from similar length Ester won't pretend to know with any certainty) test and forsure hgh or hcg are not singular things rather groups of molecules with somewhat differing actions ie ideally men want alpha hcg and not the 2 or 3 other common forms. I have no idea if all pee base hcg(vs recombinant ecoli made) is the same, maybe purificstion has slight differences in ratios and unfortunate the iu is based on effects on woman and not purely á mg=iu, and one can assume if variances from brand or batch of alpha that technically the iu for men would be different than woman. Anyway way off topic and doing a bad job explaining and not a Dr.
Systemlord
Member
That’s an outdated terminology and is used now as a marketing gimmick.
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