Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
Can you give me The cliff notes of the video lol.
Can you give me The cliff notes of the video lol.
I had the same experience, and it is a very curious thing. Everything I measured, including T, DHT (!!!) and E2 were much higher on cream than I ever hit with injections, and yet the injections caused overstimulation, anxiety, insomnia, and the cream did not. Does super high DHT have a calming effect perhaps?Yeah…I actually got up to 30 ng/dl FT with TT in the 1200s on just 100 mg and I didn’t want to go up anymore because I just can’t get my hands wrapped around the idea it’s okay long term to run higher than that! I probably should’ve tried lowering it first before I threw in the towel on it. The thing I liked about it was I seemed to have more energy but I didn’t feel “overstimulated” like I do when I get my levels that high on injections.
I looked into that (I’m not near as good of a researcher as some of the other posters on here)! Basically I found differing information, and nothing that directly studied DHT and anxiety….I suspect it’s like most things in this realm and highly individual…I’ve got a friend who swears by pellets over injections and says the same thing about them, that he can run higher levels without bloating, overstimulation, etc. In my 12 year “journey” that’s one delivery system I haven’t tried yet, but I really don’t want to!I had the same experience, and it is a very curious thing. Everything I measured, including T, DHT (!!!) and E2 were much higher on cream than I ever hit with injections, and yet the injections caused overstimulation, anxiety, insomnia, and the cream did not. Does super high DHT have a calming effect perhaps?
In addition to E2 and DHT differences, we would need to compare AUC and mean levels plus peak to trough variation for xx mg of test in cream absorbed vs mg of test injected. Mean serum levels would be same so then we are left with considerable differences in peak vs trough.I had the same experience, and it is a very curious thing. Everything I measured, including T, DHT (!!!) and E2 were much higher on cream than I ever hit with injections, and yet the injections caused overstimulation, anxiety, insomnia, and the cream did not. Does super high DHT have a calming effect perhaps?
I’ve seen other drs also talk about the mechanism of action being responsible for some feeling better on cream vs injections also. because cream doesnt have to be cleaved off from the ester. Over my head but I know I feel much better on cream.I had the same experience, and it is a very curious thing. Everything I measured, including T, DHT (!!!) and E2 were much higher on cream than I ever hit with injections, and yet the injections caused overstimulation, anxiety, insomnia, and the cream did not. Does super high DHT have a calming effect perhaps?
Sure, that’s part 1 on the European Endocrine Society take on EDC’s, lol. I’m still watching it, 30 minutes here and there.Can you give me The cliff notes of the video lol.
Can you give me The cliff notes of the video lol.
Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals (Part 1)
Summary This is a transcript of a talk on endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs) and their impact on the endocrine system. The talk is part of the ESC Talks series, focusing on EDCs. The speaker introduces the topic and the speakers for the day, highlighting the importance of addressing EDCs in...www.excelmale.com
Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals (Part 2)
Summary Researchers discuss the impact of endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs), specifically para and poly floral alkyl substances (PFAS), on reproductive health and child development. Key Takeaways: The presentation discusses the presence of endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs)...www.excelmale.com
ED in Men on the Rise: Is There a Link with Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals?
Abstract Erectile dysfunction (ED) is one of the most prevalent chronic conditions affecting men. ED can arise from disruptions during development, affecting the patterning of erectile tissues in the penis and/or disruptions in adulthood that impact sexual stimuli, neural pathways, molecular...www.excelmale.com
The effect of endocrine disruptors on the reproductive system
Abstract OBJECTIVE: Chemicals that disrupt the endocrine homeostasis of the human body, otherwise known as endocrine disruptors (EDCs), are found in the blood, urine, amniotic fluid, or adipose tissue. This paper presents the current knowledge about EDCs and the reproductive system. MATERIALS...www.excelmale.com
Throw in the CAG repeat length (short/long)/polymorphism of the AR let alone AR DDS (distribution, density, sensitivity)!
Even than doubting most men on TRT would need to achieve absurdly high trough FT levels to overcome this.
Variations in CAG Repeats of Men’s Androgen Receptor Gene
As the mediator of androgen actions, the androgen receptor (AR) plays a central role in establishing both physical and behavioral sex differences. The AR gene contains a CAG repeat polymorphism that is related to the strength of androgen actions on target tissues and that is correlated with...www.excelmale.com
Influence of CAG Repeat Polymorphism on the Targets of Testosterone Action
It should be finally acknowledged that the AR CAG repeat polymorphism plays a role in testosterone replacement therapy of males with hypogonadotropic gonadism since shorter AR gene CAG tract lengths was found to yield greater metabolic improvement in response to testosterone administration...www.excelmale.com
I agree it’s safe to say most guys (if any) “need” a free t of 50 to feel good. but if a man “feels” best at those numbers who are we to judge.Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals (Part 1)
Summary This is a transcript of a talk on endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs) and their impact on the endocrine system. The talk is part of the ESC Talks series, focusing on EDCs. The speaker introduces the topic and the speakers for the day, highlighting the importance of addressing EDCs in...www.excelmale.com
Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals (Part 2)
Summary Researchers discuss the impact of endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs), specifically para and poly floral alkyl substances (PFAS), on reproductive health and child development. Key Takeaways: The presentation discusses the presence of endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs)...www.excelmale.com
ED in Men on the Rise: Is There a Link with Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals?
Abstract Erectile dysfunction (ED) is one of the most prevalent chronic conditions affecting men. ED can arise from disruptions during development, affecting the patterning of erectile tissues in the penis and/or disruptions in adulthood that impact sexual stimuli, neural pathways, molecular...www.excelmale.com
The effect of endocrine disruptors on the reproductive system
Abstract OBJECTIVE: Chemicals that disrupt the endocrine homeostasis of the human body, otherwise known as endocrine disruptors (EDCs), are found in the blood, urine, amniotic fluid, or adipose tissue. This paper presents the current knowledge about EDCs and the reproductive system. MATERIALS...www.excelmale.com
Throw in the CAG repeat length (short/long)/polymorphism of the AR let alone AR DDS (distribution, density, sensitivity)!
Even than doubting most men on TRT would need to achieve absurdly high trough FT levels to overcome this.
Variations in CAG Repeats of Men’s Androgen Receptor Gene
As the mediator of androgen actions, the androgen receptor (AR) plays a central role in establishing both physical and behavioral sex differences. The AR gene contains a CAG repeat polymorphism that is related to the strength of androgen actions on target tissues and that is correlated with...www.excelmale.com
Influence of CAG Repeat Polymorphism on the Targets of Testosterone Action
It should be finally acknowledged that the AR CAG repeat polymorphism plays a role in testosterone replacement therapy of males with hypogonadotropic gonadism since shorter AR gene CAG tract lengths was found to yield greater metabolic improvement in response to testosterone administration...www.excelmale.com
Injection wise I’ve done from 200 mg a week with AI, no AI, all the way down to 60 mg a week….AI was a pain in the ass to keep regulated as I found I can drop my estradiol by just licking a compounded capsule (haven’t been on one for years)….I was 270 total T when I started, and I SUSPECT I have always been on the lower end of the range even when I didn’t have symptoms….I’m contemplating going even lower to 40-50 a week just to see what happens. Anything over 80-100 a week with injections predictably results in overstimulation / anxiety, etc. and higher e2 keeps thumper on the soft side…but then like you, I don’t “feel” all that “good” on what I can tolerate….thought has hit me that maybe this is as good as it gets! Then I see assholes I know kicking ass in the gym with no erectile issues taking much more than me and I’m green with envy.I agree it’s safe to say most guys (if any) “need” a free t of 50 to feel good. but if a man “feels” best at those numbers who are we to judge.
while I havent really pushed my numbers past the range at all I do think i definitely have higher numbers then I ever did natural. And when I kept them in the range of 3-7mg a day that normal men produce I felt like crap.
Injection wise I’ve done from 200 mg a week with AI, no AI, all the way down to 60 mg a week….AI was a pain in the ass to keep regulated as I found I can drop my estradiol by just licking a compounded capsule (haven’t been on one for years)….I was 270 total T when I started, and I SUSPECT I have always been on the lower end of the range even when I didn’t have symptoms….I’m contemplating going even lower to 40-50 a week just to see what happens. Anything over 80-100 a week with injections predictably results in overstimulation / anxiety, etc. and higher e2 keeps thumper on the soft side…but then like you, I don’t “feel” all that “good” on what I can tolerate….thought has hit me that maybe this is as good as it gets! Then I see assholes I know kicking ass in the gym with no erectile issues taking much more than me and I’m green with envy.
i know this makes no sense. But I couldn’t Tolerate t cyp at any dose over 80 mg. Then I switch to enanthate and I didn’t get any anxiety at all even at 160mg a week. I just never felt right on injections. Almost like I was allergic to them. For what it’s worth I wouldn’t worry about e2. And assuming that they are e2 symptoms gets a lot of men in trouble. My e2 runs higher on cream (on labs) and I feel better. I’ve had my e2 in 80s and felt good with good erections. just my personal opinion I would get back on the cream. You might have some sides the first few weeks but they will most likely subside.Injection wise I’ve done from 200 mg a week with AI, no AI, all the way down to 60 mg a week….AI was a pain in the ass to keep regulated as I found I can drop my estradiol by just licking a compounded capsule (haven’t been on one for years)….I was 270 total T when I started, and I SUSPECT I have always been on the lower end of the range even when I didn’t have symptoms….I’m contemplating going even lower to 40-50 a week just to see what happens. Anything over 80-100 a week with injections predictably results in overstimulation / anxiety, etc. and higher e2 keeps thumper on the soft side…but then like you, I don’t “feel” all that “good” on what I can tolerate….thought has hit me that maybe this is as good as it gets! Then I see assholes I know kicking ass in the gym with no erectile issues taking much more than me and I’m green with envy.
How long after application do you pull lab work?i know this makes no sense. But I couldn’t Tolerate t cyp at any dose over 80 mg. Then I switch to enanthate and I didn’t get any anxiety at all even at 160mg a week. I just never felt right on injections. Almost like I was allergic to them. For what it’s worth I wouldn’t worry about e2. And assuming that they are e2 symptoms gets a lot of men in trouble. My e2 runs higher on cream (on labs) and I feel better. I’ve had my e2 in 80s and felt good with good erections. just my personal opinion I would get back on the cream. You might have some sides the first few weeks but they will most likely subside.
5 hoursHow long after application do you pull lab work?
Could it possibly have something to do with the cream most likely causing less downregulation of other hormones, such as pregnenolone, DHEA, progesterone, Allopregnenolone, for example, and maybe not having those hormones so suppressed allows a person to tolerate higher levels of testosterone? As we know, our hormones work together like a symphony, and all balance and counterbalance eachother.I had the same experience, and it is a very curious thing. Everything I measured, including T, DHT (!!!) and E2 were much higher on cream than I ever hit with injections, and yet the injections caused overstimulation, anxiety, insomnia, and the cream did not. Does super high DHT have a calming effect perhaps?
As far as labs are concerned my preg and dhea have dropped a decent amount since switching to cream lol. I was typically around 60 for preg and dropped to 13. And always high 200s for dhea and dropped to the high 100s.Could it possibly have something to do with the cream most likely causing less downregulation of other hormones, such as pregnenolone, DHEA, progesterone, Allopregnenolone, for example, and maybe not having those hormones so suppressed allows a person to tolerate higher levels of testosterone?
Would kind of make sense, considering men in their late teens/ early twenties have historically been able to tolerate ”high” test levels. Especially back in the day before all the stuff in our food and environment causes much lower test levels, on average. I would assume they didn’t have any issues having ”high” test levels because they most likely also had optimal levels of all other hormones, and/ or an overall optimal functioning body in general
Well there goes that theory! lol. U think if u tested LH and FSH they’d be basically zero, like they are on moderate to long ester test injections?As far as labs are concerned my preg and dhea have dropped a decent amount since switching to cream lol. I was typically around 60 for preg and dropped to 13. And always high 200s for dhea and dropped to the high 100s.
I have pretty significant testicle atrophy. If that means anything. I’m also dosing the cream 2x a day. So I might be pretty stable.Well there goes that theory! lol. U think if u tested LH and FSH they’d be basically zero, like they are on moderate to long ester test injections?
It’s funny you said something about the Enanthate cause there’s another guy on here that just switched to see if that makes a difference. I’ve never tried TE…and you are right, I should probably give the cream another go…then knowing my luck I ll get to a better spot and the F’ing FDA will stop compounding pharmacies just in time for the American version of Androforte to hit the shelves for $550 a monthi know this makes no sense. But I couldn’t Tolerate t cyp at any dose over 80 mg. Then I switch to enanthate and I didn’t get any anxiety at all even at 160mg a week. I just never felt right on injections. Almost like I was allergic to them. For what it’s worth I wouldn’t worry about e2. And assuming that they are e2 symptoms gets a lot of men in trouble. My e2 runs higher on cream (on labs) and I feel better. I’ve had my e2 in 80s and felt good with good erections. just my personal opinion I would get back on the cream. You might have some sides the first few weeks but they will most likely subside.