Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
Can you give me The cliff notes of the video lol.
High testosterone and estrogen levels
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FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
I had the same experience, and it is a very curious thing. Everything I measured, including T, DHT (!!!) and E2 were much higher on cream than I ever hit with injections, and yet the injections caused overstimulation, anxiety, insomnia, and the cream did not. Does super high DHT have a calming effect perhaps?
I looked into that (I’m not near as good of a researcher as some of the other posters on here)! Basically I found differing information, and nothing that directly studied DHT and anxiety….I suspect it’s like most things in this realm and highly individual…I’ve got a friend who swears by pellets over injections and says the same thing about them, that he can run higher levels without bloating, overstimulation, etc. In my 12 year “journey” that’s one delivery system I haven’t tried yet, but I really don’t want to!
T
tareload
Guest
In addition to E2 and DHT differences, we would need to compare AUC and mean levels plus peak to trough variation for xx mg of test in cream absorbed vs mg of test injected. Mean serum levels would be same so then we are left with considerable differences in peak vs trough.
Elimination half life of cream of course much less than even test propionate. The shorter half half for cream guarantees the peak is going to be higher mg for mg of testosterone vs injection of test ester.
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T
tareload
Guest
Cream pharmacokinetics thread and links:
www.excelmale.com
Test propionate:
www.excelmale.com
Newbie confused by prescription, help please
My new testosterone cream prescription reads - 200mg/ml. Apply 1ml twice a day. Does this mean I would be taking 400mg per day, total?? Maybe I'm wrong, but that seems like a massive amount for someone just starting out. Am I wrong?
www.excelmale.com
Test propionate:
Trans scrotal testosterone cream application is a game changer
You got a link to those papers? Was just pulling one from 1890s the other day unrelated to this topic. So nice we have so much digitized. Much easier now than the good ole days. Maybe that is why my TT/fT is so low, I am not climbing the stairs at the health science library as much as I used to.
www.excelmale.com
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
I’ve seen other drs also talk about the mechanism of action being responsible for some feeling better on cream vs injections also. because cream doesnt have to be cleaved off from the ester. Over my head but I know I feel much better on cream.
T
tareload
Guest
That is awesome the cream is working alot better for some of you. I will try this again. Hell I will even consider slapping some on if @RobRoy quits talking about himself in the 3rd person and admits he does not know what he does not know and knows there are some things he just doesnt know. Just make allowance for individual variance and admit there is risk to what you/me/we are doing with the supra T / DHT / E2 / Hct fun (plus the Hct thing you clearly need to come clean on). Deal? Seems reasonable to me. Can you please consider the concept of informed consent? Let's bury the hatchet @RobRoy and not in your or my skull LOL.
Systemlord
Member
Sure, that’s part 1 on the European Endocrine Society take on EDC’s, lol. I’m still watching it, 30 minutes here and there.
madman
Super Moderator
Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals (Part 1)
Summary This is a transcript of a talk on endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs) and their impact on the endocrine system. The talk is part of the ESC Talks series, focusing on EDCs. The speaker introduces the topic and the speakers for the day, highlighting the importance of addressing EDCs in...
www.excelmale.com
Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals (Part 2)
Summary Researchers discuss the impact of endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs), specifically para and poly floral alkyl substances (PFAS), on reproductive health and child development. Key Takeaways: The presentation discusses the presence of endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs)...
www.excelmale.com
ED in Men on the Rise: Is There a Link with Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals?
Abstract Erectile dysfunction (ED) is one of the most prevalent chronic conditions affecting men. ED can arise from disruptions during development, affecting the patterning of erectile tissues in the penis and/or disruptions in adulthood that impact sexual stimuli, neural pathways, molecular...
www.excelmale.com
The effect of endocrine disruptors on the reproductive system
Abstract OBJECTIVE: Chemicals that disrupt the endocrine homeostasis of the human body, otherwise known as endocrine disruptors (EDCs), are found in the blood, urine, amniotic fluid, or adipose tissue. This paper presents the current knowledge about EDCs and the reproductive system. MATERIALS...
www.excelmale.com
Throw in the CAG repeat length (short/long)/polymorphism of the AR let alone AR DDS (distribution, density, sensitivity)!
Even than doubting most men on TRT would need to achieve absurdly high trough FT levels to overcome this.
Variations in CAG Repeats of Men’s Androgen Receptor Gene
As the mediator of androgen actions, the androgen receptor (AR) plays a central role in establishing both physical and behavioral sex differences. The AR gene contains a CAG repeat polymorphism that is related to the strength of androgen actions on target tissues and that is correlated with...
www.excelmale.com
Influence of CAG Repeat Polymorphism on the Targets of Testosterone Action
It should be finally acknowledged that the AR CAG repeat polymorphism plays a role in testosterone replacement therapy of males with hypogonadotropic gonadism since shorter AR gene CAG tract lengths was found to yield greater metabolic improvement in response to testosterone administration...
www.excelmale.com
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals (Part 1)
Summary This is a transcript of a talk on endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs) and their impact on the endocrine system. The talk is part of the ESC Talks series, focusing on EDCs. The speaker introduces the topic and the speakers for the day, highlighting the importance of addressing EDCs in...
Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals (Part 2)
Summary Researchers discuss the impact of endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs), specifically para and poly floral alkyl substances (PFAS), on reproductive health and child development. Key Takeaways: The presentation discusses the presence of endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs)...
ED in Men on the Rise: Is There a Link with Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals?
Abstract Erectile dysfunction (ED) is one of the most prevalent chronic conditions affecting men. ED can arise from disruptions during development, affecting the patterning of erectile tissues in the penis and/or disruptions in adulthood that impact sexual stimuli, neural pathways, molecular...
The effect of endocrine disruptors on the reproductive system
Abstract OBJECTIVE: Chemicals that disrupt the endocrine homeostasis of the human body, otherwise known as endocrine disruptors (EDCs), are found in the blood, urine, amniotic fluid, or adipose tissue. This paper presents the current knowledge about EDCs and the reproductive system. MATERIALS...
Throw in the CAG repeat length (short/long)/polymorphism of the AR let alone AR DDS (distribution, density, sensitivity)!
Even than doubting most men on TRT would need to achieve absurdly high trough FT levels to overcome this.
Variations in CAG Repeats of Men’s Androgen Receptor Gene
As the mediator of androgen actions, the androgen receptor (AR) plays a central role in establishing both physical and behavioral sex differences. The AR gene contains a CAG repeat polymorphism that is related to the strength of androgen actions on target tissues and that is correlated with...
Influence of CAG Repeat Polymorphism on the Targets of Testosterone Action
It should be finally acknowledged that the AR CAG repeat polymorphism plays a role in testosterone replacement therapy of males with hypogonadotropic gonadism since shorter AR gene CAG tract lengths was found to yield greater metabolic improvement in response to testosterone administration...
I agree it’s safe to say most guys (if any) “need” a free t of 50 to feel good. but if a man “feels” best at those numbers who are we to judge.Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals (Part 1)
Summary This is a transcript of a talk on endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs) and their impact on the endocrine system. The talk is part of the ESC Talks series, focusing on EDCs. The speaker introduces the topic and the speakers for the day, highlighting the importance of addressing EDCs in...
Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals (Part 2)
Summary Researchers discuss the impact of endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs), specifically para and poly floral alkyl substances (PFAS), on reproductive health and child development. Key Takeaways: The presentation discusses the presence of endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs)...
ED in Men on the Rise: Is There a Link with Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals?
Abstract Erectile dysfunction (ED) is one of the most prevalent chronic conditions affecting men. ED can arise from disruptions during development, affecting the patterning of erectile tissues in the penis and/or disruptions in adulthood that impact sexual stimuli, neural pathways, molecular...
The effect of endocrine disruptors on the reproductive system
Abstract OBJECTIVE: Chemicals that disrupt the endocrine homeostasis of the human body, otherwise known as endocrine disruptors (EDCs), are found in the blood, urine, amniotic fluid, or adipose tissue. This paper presents the current knowledge about EDCs and the reproductive system. MATERIALS...
Throw in the CAG repeat length (short/long)/polymorphism of the AR let alone AR DDS (distribution, density, sensitivity)!
Even than doubting most men on TRT would need to achieve absurdly high trough FT levels to overcome this.
Variations in CAG Repeats of Men’s Androgen Receptor Gene
As the mediator of androgen actions, the androgen receptor (AR) plays a central role in establishing both physical and behavioral sex differences. The AR gene contains a CAG repeat polymorphism that is related to the strength of androgen actions on target tissues and that is correlated with...
Influence of CAG Repeat Polymorphism on the Targets of Testosterone Action
It should be finally acknowledged that the AR CAG repeat polymorphism plays a role in testosterone replacement therapy of males with hypogonadotropic gonadism since shorter AR gene CAG tract lengths was found to yield greater metabolic improvement in response to testosterone administration...
while I havent really pushed my numbers past the range at all I do think i definitely have higher numbers then I ever did natural. And when I kept them in the range of 3-7mg a day that normal men produce I felt like crap.
Injection wise I’ve done from 200 mg a week with AI, no AI, all the way down to 60 mg a week….AI was a pain in the ass to keep regulated as I found I can drop my estradiol by just licking a compounded capsule (haven’t been on one for years)….I was 270 total T when I started, and I SUSPECT I have always been on the lower end of the range even when I didn’t have symptoms….I’m contemplating going even lower to 40-50 a week just to see what happens. Anything over 80-100 a week with injections predictably results in overstimulation / anxiety, etc. and higher e2 keeps thumper on the soft side…but then like you, I don’t “feel” all that “good” on what I can tolerate….thought has hit me that maybe this is as good as it gets! Then I see assholes I know kicking ass in the gym with no erectile issues taking much more than me and I’m green with envy.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
i know this makes no sense. But I couldn’t Tolerate t cyp at any dose over 80 mg. Then I switch to enanthate and I didn’t get any anxiety at all even at 160mg a week. I just never felt right on injections. Almost like I was allergic to them. For what it’s worth I wouldn’t worry about e2. And assuming that they are e2 symptoms gets a lot of men in trouble. My e2 runs higher on cream (on labs) and I feel better. I’ve had my e2 in 80s and felt good with good erections. just my personal opinion I would get back on the cream. You might have some sides the first few weeks but they will most likely subside.
T
tareload
Guest
How long after application do you pull lab work?
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
5 hours
Could it possibly have something to do with the cream most likely causing less downregulation of other hormones, such as pregnenolone, DHEA, progesterone, Allopregnenolone, for example, and maybe not having those hormones so suppressed allows a person to tolerate higher levels of testosterone? As we know, our hormones work together like a symphony, and all balance and counterbalance eachother.
Would kind of make sense, considering men in their late teens/ early twenties have historically been able to tolerate ”high” test levels. Especially back in the day before all the stuff in our food and environment causes much lower test levels, on average. I would assume they didn’t have any issues having ”high” test levels because they most likely also had optimal levels of all other hormones, and/ or an overall optimally functioning body in general
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
As far as labs are concerned my preg and dhea have dropped a decent amount since switching to cream lol. I was typically around 60 for preg and dropped to 13. And always high 200s for dhea and dropped to the high 100s.
Well there goes that theory! lol. U think if u tested LH and FSH they’d be basically zero, like they are on moderate to long ester test injections?
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
I have pretty significant testicle atrophy. If that means anything. I’m also dosing the cream 2x a day. So I might be pretty stable.
It’s funny you said something about the Enanthate cause there’s another guy on here that just switched to see if that makes a difference. I’ve never tried TE…and you are right, I should probably give the cream another go…then knowing my luck I ll get to a better spot and the F’ing FDA will stop compounding pharmacies just in time for the American version of Androforte to hit the shelves for $550 a month
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