HCG How long until it starts to work

[paco]

Hi Guys, great thread!

I'm wondering about using hCG to attempt restoration of spermatogenesis and increase testicular size... I've browsed through a few studies that use this, sometimes in combination with hMG, to restore/maintain sperm production.

The questions I have are:
1.) has anyone here used either of these successfully to produce sperm?
2.) what are the latest/best studies that demonstrate this?
3.) do I have to stop taking testosterone to attempt restoration?

Thanks heaps, and looking forward to your comments!

Randy, I am about 10 weeks into my journey of TRT plus HCG, with Dr. Lipshultz as my doctor. I'm happy to share notes if you'd like to send me a private message. Here is my report so far...

Now on TRT plus HCG to preserve fertility

 

[Dr. John Crisler]

That's an awesome article by Dr. Jonathon Wright.

If you take your HCG shot in the morning, you will enjoy its benefits with respect to sense of well-being, and libido (adjunctive to induced testosterone production) during the day. This is because of its actions on the more peripheral (emotional) centers of the brain. It is common knowledge there are LH receptors all over the body; they must be there for good reasons.

If you happen to suffer primary hypogonadism (testicular failure), and you start TRT, you are also then inducing hypogonadotropic (secondary) hypogonadism. The LH receptors spread through the body are no longer getting the LH they are used to--supplementing with hCG solves that problem. This is one of the reasons why I believe most men would benefit from added HCG while on any TRT modality.

I highly recommend this article: http://www.tahomaclinicblog.com/hcg-neuronal-regeneration/

"HCG boosts libido & erectile function

Have you ever read that HCG has been reported to increase erectile function and sexual desire for some men? No, it wasn’t 100% effective, but you’d think that research finding would have been all over the news, especially since the article was published in a major medical journal, Urology. Since the research was published all the way back 1987, the word should have gotten around by now. But since HCG isn’t patentable it, of course, will never get the attention that conventional drugs do—but I digress.

Researchers actually reported two randomized studies in the one journal. In the first study, termed preliminary, twenty-nine men with ED (in pre-Viagra 1987, it was called impotence) took either HCG injections (5000 IU twice weekly), or injections of testosterone propionate (which is still in widespread use in 2013), 50 milligrams twice weekly. The HCG outperformed the testosterone, with 49% responding versus 28% in the testosterone group.

The second study involved forty-five men, again randomized, this time HCG versus placebo. Both took twice-weekly injections, placebo or 5000 IU HCG. HCG administration was associated with significant improvement in ED in ten of twenty-one men (47%). The placebo was successful in only three of twenty-four men (12.5%).

The researchers also noted a significant increase in testosterone levels in all twenty-one men who took the HCG injections, but no increases in the men who took the placebo injections. (There was no measurement reported of estrogen in either group.) Since the entire HCG group had a significant increase in testosterone, but only 47% had a significant improvement in ED, it’s reasonable to assume that HCG improves ED in some men in a non-testosterone-related way."

 

[Gene Devine]

That's an awesome article by Dr. Jonathon Wright.

If you take your HCG shot in the morning, you will enjoy its benefits with respect to sense of well-being, and libido (adjunctive to induced testosterone production) during the day. This is because of its actions on the more peripheral (emotional) centers of the brain. It is common knowledge there are LH receptors all over the body; they must be there for good reasons.

If you happen to suffer primary hypogonadism (testicular failure), and you start TRT, you are also then inducing hypogonadotropic (secondary) hypogonadism. The LH receptors spread through the body are no longer getting the LH they are used to--supplementing with hCG solves that problem. This is one of the reasons why I believe most men would benefit from added HCG while on any TRT modality.

Excellent response Dr. Crisler, thank you.

I might add, and I think this is very important and often over looked by some Anti-Aging Practitioners, is that HCG acting as an LH analog activates the P450 Side Chain Cleavage (P450scc) enzyme which is principally response for converting Cholesterol into Pregnenolone which is the mother pro-hormone of every single hormone in our bodies.

When we introduce exogenous testosterone into a man's body, as you point out Dr. Crisler, we are essentially causing a self educed Secondary Hypogonadal condition via HTPA suppression and the negative feedback loop.

Once this happens, as noted, men no longer produce LH which is why we supplement with HCG as an analog.

Now think for a minute, without HCG in a HPTA suppressed man where little to no LH is being produced what is happening at the site of conversion of Cholesterol converting to Pregnenolone???

Nothing!!!

What does this mean to every single hormonal loop in a mans body??? It means these path ways are now deficient and clearly not optimal if we know that Pregnenolone levels are suppressed.

To me, testicular function and volume aside, HCG is an absolute must in a HPTA suppressed male as we need to make sure that the synthesis of Cholesterol to Pregnenolone is happening.

In fact, even with HCG as an LG analog, it is still very important for a man to supplement with additional Pregnenolone and DHEA each and every morning to make sure they are back filling all of their hormonal pathways even when HCG is used.

Like I stated starting out here; this is probably the single most important reason for using HCG in the HPTA suppressed male along with additional supplementation and is often over looked and or not understood even by some of the best trained TRT Physicians.

Fact is, the HPTA suppressed man needs HCG as it's just as important to Testosterone supplementation and E2 management in my opinion.

 

[Dr. John Crisler]

I highly recommend this article: http://www.tahomaclinicblog.com/hcg-neuronal-regeneration/

"HCG boosts libido & erectile function
Have you ever read that HCG has been reported to increase erectile function and sexual desire for some men? No, it wasn’t 100% effective, but you’d think that research finding would have been all over the news, especially since the article was published in a major medical journal, Urology. Since the research was published all the way back 1987, the word should have gotten around by now. But since HCG isn’t patentable it, of course, will never get the attention that conventional drugs do—but I digress.

Researchers actually reported two randomized studies in the one journal. In the first study, termed preliminary, twenty-nine men with ED (in pre-Viagra 1987, it was called impotence) took either HCG injections (5000 IU twice weekly), or injections of testosterone propionate (which is still in widespread use in 2013), 50 milligrams twice weekly. The HCG outperformed the testosterone, with 49% responding versus 28% in the testosterone group.

The second study involved forty-five men, again randomized, this time HCG versus placebo. Both took twice-weekly injections, placebo or 5000 IU HCG. HCG administration was associated with significant improvement in ED in ten of twenty-one men (47%). The placebo was successful in only three of twenty-four men (12.5%).

The researchers also noted a significant increase in testosterone levels in all twenty-one men who took the HCG injections, but no increases in the men who took the placebo injections. (There was no measurement reported of estrogen in either group.) Since the entire HCG group had a significant increase in testosterone, but only 47% had a significant improvement in ED, it’s reasonable to assume that HCG improves ED in some men in a non-testosterone-related way."

Great post, Nelson.

As far as the bolded statement goes, we practitioners who were properly using HCG knew this....all along the way. because we heard it from our patients every day.

 

[jger242]

Well,

My e2 was not elevated afterall. Got results back Monday from 3/29/14 bloodwork.

Estradiol Rothe ECLIA methodology 18.6 (7.6 - 42.6)

It seems that my iron and ferritin are very low which would explain the anxiety and other issues I thought were due to elevated e2.

So if you're doing phlebotomies keep an eye on iron, ferritin, etc.

My hgb and Hct were fine so I thought iron and ferritin would be also. Seems they are not.

Iron and TIBC
Iron Bind. cap. (TIBC) 377 (250 - 450 )
UIBC 311 (150 - 375)
Iron, serum 66 (40 - 155)
Iron saturation 18 (15 - 55)
Feritin, Serum 19 LOW (30 - 400)

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I think this whole estradiol-mood disorder thing is overblown. There is a lot more involved in mood than T and E2.

 

[Dr. John Crisler]

Well,

My e2 was not elevated afterall. Got results back Monday from 3/29/14 bloodwork.

Estradiol Rothe ECLIA methodology 18.6 (7.6 - 42.6)

It seems that my iron and ferritin are very low which would explain the anxiety and other issues I thought were due to elevated e2.

So if you're doing phlebotomies keep an eye on iron, ferritin, etc.

My hgb and Hct were fine so I thought iron and ferritin would be also. Seems they are not.

Iron and TIBC
Iron Bind. cap. (TIBC) 377 (250 - 450 )
UIBC 311 (150 - 375)
Iron, serum 66 (40 - 155)
Iron saturation 18 (15 - 55)
Feritin, Serum 19 LOW (30 - 400)

The results, I am afraid, may not be trusted. Immunoassay is not trustworthy at this low concentration of hormone.

But it certainly is true low iron can cause the symptoms of which you complain.

This can be an issue when patients develop polycythemia (thick blood) while on TRT, and they have to then donate blood to gets things under control. You have to then monitor ferritin, as it can get too low.

It's a strange situation when you have to give iron to patients with polycythemia. But you do, if you are going to do it right.

 

[Dr. John Crisler]

I think this whole estradiol-mood disorder thing is overblown. There is a lot more involved in mood than T and E2.
View attachment 710
View attachment 709

...but it is the easiest to recognize, and treat; a great place to start.

 

[jger242]

Thanks Dr. John Crisler and Nelson Vergel.

Getting everything balanced takes time.

Overall though I am very much improved and feeling better than I did years ago.

Thank you both for your time and commitment to improving our well being and lives.

 

[bruin]

I am on week 2 of hcg therapy 1000ml weekly, and im doing daily admin.
So, far : started to realize slight testicular increase
great sense of mental perspective, mood
the boys are still very tight, and have not dropped to their previous level
I think in conclusion my overall protocol, of T and HCG, I am sleeping fantastic, very restful, having great dreams again which leads to being energized, feeling more sexual and able to respond physically ( erections are back ) and ejaculate volume is up. Was not sure if this increase of volume was an actual by product of my therapy or just that Im more into being sexual, as Im feeling more confident and able to perform and therefore more excited. Could be a combination. Its good so far!
Duane

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I love HCG. You will see how your testicles and penis will hang lower. It is a great feeling to have a full package. My penis head also gets more sensitive on HCG, so I cum a lot more than once.

 

[jger242]

Bruin

Same benefits at 1000 iu per wk for me.

The increased ejac/ sperm volume is probably due to hcg. It was for me. My boys have filled back up but are still kinda tight to the body but I think that may have something to do with adrenaline.

I am Really pleased with the results from hcg.

 

[bruin]

Im on 1000iu a week, been a month this week on HCG therapy and just now really noticing the increase in testicular sensitivity ( very sensitive ) and moderate size development. Very pleased. So I expect I will get back to the where I was in size and they will descend again in due time.


Was 4 weeks a reasonable time for this experience? Was I on the correct dose?

Duane

 

[tkruse]

how long does it take for HCG to restore infertility due to TRT? I was very fertile but since being on TRT without HCG I'm completely sterile. I have been on HCG for 1 week and am wondering when I should expect to be fertile again.

 

[Dr. John Crisler]

Even once LH/FSH are restored, it takes 3 months to make a sperm.

 

[ERO]

Its going to be dose and time-dependent, but expect it to take a few weeks in any case. What's your weekly dosing amount?

 

[tkruse]

Thanks Dr. Crisler. Prior to coming under your care one week ago via defy medical, I had been on TRT under my primary since January of 2015. I had a sperm count test done a few months ago and the doctor said my results showed I was 100% sterile. You prescribed 150 of HCG daily, which I began on September 1. Once sperm is made (i.e. 3 months), how long does it take before you've produced enough to conceive a child?

 

[craig weston]

Gene Devine, What is 100 IU on a insulin syringe as my order as just arrived and im going with 100IU Mon-Fri and have weekend off ?

 

[craig weston]

Gene, How much is 100IU on a insulin syringe ? My order arrived this morning and im going with 100IU daily mon-fri then having weekend off ?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

WE answered this on another post. I think your HCG was 5000 IU powder. If you mix 5 ml into it, 100 IU will be 0.1 cc 9ml).