Grrrr Labs/Journal

[johndoesmith]

Do you think my DHT is high enough to cause hair loss?
I don't have any signs of hair loss but it does run in the fam.

I do see that DHT is on the high side, but if you're not having hair loss then I wouldn't worry about it.

If you have gene then you will eventually lose your hair there's no real way to avoid that unfortunately.

Personally, I don't know what my status is regarding whether or not it runs in my family, and no way to find out :\

My DHT is also on the high end of the range.

 

[Grrrr]

IM injections are where most of the data from trials have been recorded. I personally will not do sub q since there is no data. I begin 2x weekly this Monday and will post data in 6 weeks or so. I can tell from experience that hashimoto's may be your main issue. I have it and am 36. Everyday is different and is a struggle at times. If you workout too hard or don't sleep enough or eat bad or a million other things, then u will feel bad. Your TSH looks good, but personally you may be taking way too many vitamins and meds?

I might be taking extra vitamins... But nothing ever made me feel worse supplement wise.
I have to take something for testosterone and thyroid...

I agree hashimotos is definitely my main issue. It's the main cause of all my hormonal imbalances but even with hashimotos I need some form of TRT and thyroid replacement.

Im not sure how much longer I want to continue TRT considering a tiny increase in testosterone but a good increase in e2, prolactin, DHT, hematocrit.

 

[tjlab]

Have you tried 100mg weekly IM injections? That helped stabilize me for a while. No hematocrit issues or e2. Don't worry about dht, you will lose hair on TRT.

Have you only been on subq injections?

 

[Grrrr]

Don't worry about dht, you will lose hair on TRT.

thats not what i wanted to hear.. Im so vain I may quit TRT so save hair..
I haven't noticed any hair loss yet but its only been 2.5 months
Yes I have only been on SUB Q 2x a week injections.
Can 25 Gauge 5/8” do IM injections?

If IM has a chance of less e2, DHT id be all for it.

When I was on clomid my T peaked around 800 but my DHT still stay in mid range... near had any increase

 

[Grrrr]

this is interesting on DHT and hair loss

The hormone DHT can be broken down into two categories. Firstly, there's serum DHT (the kind that circulates in your blood). Secondly, there's tissue DHT (the kind that binds to your skin, your scalp, and many other places in your body).Many people assume that all kinds of DHT – both serum and tissue – are bad for your hair. But research on this is mixed.
Let's start with serum (blood) DHT. Some studies suggest serum DHT has no correlation with pattern hair loss. Others suggest that serum DHT is higher in young men without hair loss! This contradicts the widely preached dogma that DHT is universally bad for hair. Based on the evidence, serum DHT is either uncorrelated to or protective against male pattern hair loss.
But what about tissue DHT? Is tissue DHT correlated with baldness?
Yes. The distinction between serum and tissue DHT matters. It turns out that tissue DHT is elevated in the scalps of balding men. Tissue DHT in the scalp is linked to pattern hair loss. Where DHT collects in the scalp, hair loss tends to follow.
Beyond this, DHT gets extremely complicated.
For one, tissue DHT is associated with hair loss in the scalp, but paradoxically, tissue DHT also encourages body and facial hair growth. How can that be? How can tissue DHT encourage both hair growth and hair loss, depending on location? (Note: many theories have tried and failed to answer this).
Here's another paradox… While men's testosterone tend to decline with age, their serum DHT levels stay about the same. At face value, that doesn't make much sense. DHT is made fromtestosterone. When testosterone decreases, we'd expect DHT to also decrease. But it doesn't. Why?

https://perfecthairhealth.com/men-stop-thinking-your-hair-loss-is-due-to-high-testosterone/

 

[CoastWatcher]

I'm so vain I may quit TRT so save hair..
I haven't noticed any hair loss yet but its only been 2.5 months

Testosterone and Hair Loss: What You Need to Know

This link takes you to a recent summary prepared at Nelson's direction on the surprising advances in topical treatment for hair loss. Be sure to scroll down a bit in order to access the material.

 

[HarryCat]

IM injections are where most of the data from trials have been recorded. I personally will not do sub q since there is no data.

This is not true. There have been several studies published on subQ and there is even a pharmaceutical company that is in the process of getting a subQ auto-injector approved by the FDA, they have published the results of their trials as well.

 

[Grrrr]

If theres a chance it'll help e2 and other issues i'll give IM a try

 

[CoastWatcher]

If theres a chance it'll help e2 and other issues i'll give IM a try

It might, it might not. But give it a try and see. Not trying to be snide, just acknowledging that we can't tell you one way or another. Give it at least four, probably six, weeks to let things settle before you test.

 

[Grrrr]

Would I still use same size syringe 25g 5/8" and inject 2x a week?

 

[johndoesmith]

Would I still use same size syringe 25g 5/8" and inject 2x a week?

You can use a smaller insulin syringe for SubQ. 29g or even 30g 1/2inch.

 

[Grrrr]

Isn't it unusual that I seem to be a very high aromatizer even at small dosages?

 

[Grrrr]

This is the size syringe I have been using to inject in my naval area.

 

[johndoesmith]

This is the size syringe I have been using to inject in my naval area.

Well, if you're fairly lean, it should hit IM in your shoulders or quads.

Have you exclusively done SubQ since you started TRT?

It's possible you're a poor responder to SubQ. I'd almost certainly give IM a shot, done right, it's fairly painless. Nelson's video is excellent, in fact I like it the most, no screwing around he just injects and that's it. Defy has videos, but they're not self injection.

Isn't it unusual that I seem to be a very high aromatizer even at small dosages?

Depends, what did your pre TRT labs look like?

 

[Grrrr]

Im prolly 15% bodyfat, only subq in naval area. I have extensive blood work for many years, which labs would be most helpful?

also i feel hcg is doing nothing i may try different injection site or different brand

if i try IM i would inject into quad

 

[johndoesmith]

Im prolly 15% bodyfat, only subq in naval area. I have extensive blood work for many years, which labs would be most helpful?

also i feel hcg is doing nothing i may try different injection site or different brand

if i try IM i would inject into quad

Well just post some of the more recent PRE TRT labs, mostly sensitive E2 or any E2 testing, that was taken at the same time as total and free.

When you say HCG isn't doing anything, what do you mean? Have you been on HCG the entire 2.5 months you've been on TRT?

Quads work well for a lot of guys. I don't really like injecting in my quads but that's just me.

 

[Grrrr]

I have tried HCG several times...I was actually on HCG mono before TRT and the entire time during TRT.... I first tried HCG mono a few years and it gave a nice spike in test testosterone levels.

I never had high e2.. my e2 has always been between 20-30 with my Total T ranging from 300 to 1000... It always up and down throughout the years.. But interestingly enough even though my e2 is way higher on TRT my erections are much better.

These results were from 1 year ago; my standard HRT protocol was 12.5mg Clomid EOD

 

[johndoesmith]

I have tried HCG several times...I was actually on HCG mono before TRT and the entire time during TRT.... I first tried HCG mono a few years and it gave a nice spike in test testosterone levels.

I never had high e2.. my e2 has always been between 20-30 with my Total T ranging from 300 to 1000... It always up and down throughout the years.. But interestingly enough even though my e2 is way higher on TRT my erections are much better.

These results were from 1 year ago; my standard HRT protocol was 12.5mg Clomid EOD

View attachment 2798

Oh wow, that's a great response to clomid. Did you feel the effects of it?

Do you happen to have pre HCG/TRT/Clomid labs? As in what caused you to seek treatment?

Maybe SubQ is your problem then, who knows, only way to find out is to try IM. You do seem to have symptoms that you listed in your OP of high E2 other than erection issues.

 

[Grrrr]

I didnt feel as good as those labs looked.... My libido was hit or miss.. I never had the best erections ( not really ED) and never had morning erections.
energy was hit or miss to

these are the first labs i ever got which was done in 2006
Testosterone 340 ng / dl (230- 820)
TSH 9.0 (.5 - 5.50)

 

[tjlab]

What is your dosage again? Have you thought of a .5cc dose or 100mg weekly?