For Nelson Vergel, what’s your current protocol?

[Steve78]

Your build is what I’m looking to achieve, what’s your current protocol?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

My protocol is simple:

50 mg twice per week (either cypionate or enanthate, no difference) plus 500 IU hCG twice per week injected on delts at 90 degrees using a 27 gauge 1/2 inch syringe.

I used to bring in nandrolone or oxandrolone on and off to the combo but as I get older I have become more sensitive to increased blood pressure using more androgens. That us why I have the build I have (years of T plus these compounds plus resistance exercise).

No AI ever.

Supplements:

Vitamin D 5,0000 IU
Coenzyme Q10 400 mg
B-50 complex every other night
Zinc/Copper 25 mg/3 mcg
NAC 600 mg twice per day
Melatonin 10 mg per night (Gummies)
A multimineral every other day
Digestive enzymes with every meal (IBS)
Creatine 5 grams with coffee before the gym
Bacillus Coagulans 6 billion organisms twice per day
7-Keto DHEA 50 mg (Bloodwork showed low DHEA)

Meds:

For blood pressure: Amiloride 5 mg (potassium sparing mild antidiuretic) plus amlodipine 5 mg (calcium channel blocker). Tried telmisartan and others but they made me tired.

Zolpidem as needed (5 mg)

B-12 shots: 1000 mcg twice per week

Tried pregnenolone up to 400 mg per day but it increased my blood pressure.

Off Trintellix (5 mg) three months ago.

I have lost 12 pounds from my normal but I still look OK for 63 and 37 years with HIV.

 

[Gman86]

U look amazing Nelson! Definitely a physique I think any male would want, and most will never achieve, no matter the age. U look like ur in ur mid-late 40’s, tops! Keep up the good work. Whatever ur doing is clearly working

 

[Steve78]

Wait! That much muscle on only 100mg of test per week???? What’s your TT and free T?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Wait! That much muscle on only 100mg of test per week???? What’s your TT and free T?

I used to bring in nandrolone or oxandrolone on and off to the combo but as I get older I have become more sensitive to increased blood pressure using more androgens. That us why I have the build I have (years of T plus these compounds plus resistance exercise).

TT: 1100 ng/dL
FT: 250 pg/mL

 

[Steve78]

Looking great man! Goals

Any hgh?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Any hgh?

No. I tried Serostim back in the days and it gave me severe joint aches and water retention. Not for me.

 

[Steve78]

No. I tried Serostim back in the days and it gave me severe joint aches and water retention. Not for me.

I’m 43 and think the healthiest approach going toward it exactly that, 100 mg a week plus 1000 hcg. I’m going to stick with this approach!
Maybe once a year an 8 week oxandrolone blast, maybe

 

[Steve78]

Nelson, think 200 mg a week nandrolone is quite bad for one’s health, generally speaking ?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Nelson, think 200 mg a week nandrolone is quite bad for one’s health, generally speaking ?

I used it for years.

But keep an eye on these

Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin): Effect on Lab Tests

www.excelmale.com

 

[Steve78]

I used it for years.

But keep an eye on these

Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin): Effect on Lab Tests

www.excelmale.com

Believe that study on rats that showed nandrolone was 11x more toxic to vascular endothelial than testosterone?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Most animal studies use really high doses. I usually don’t bother to extrapolate them to humans.

 

[Steve78]

Most animal studies use really high doses. I usually don’t bother to extrapolate them to humans.

Last question, think it’s less risky to run it say 300 mg x 12 weeks vs running 1-200 mg year round?

 

[Anonymon]

Is there a reason you use 7-Keto DHEA over normal DHEA? I’m assuming you started off with normal DHEA. Did you happen to see a rise or fall in your morning cortisol levels between the 7-Keto and normal DHEA? I actually liked how I felt on normal DHEA but it made my face puffy and my low cortisol symptoms are better without it, as are my blood tests. I have a bottle of 7-Keto but never tried it. If it gave me the benefits of DHEA without the puffy face and lowered cortisol, I’d be thrilled.

 

[Jerajera]

@Nelson Vergel, thanks for posting your protocol, you tried the scrotal cream at some point, did you give up on it for any specific reason?

 

[Steve78]

This thread gives me hope, if I saw him I would say he’s running 3-400 mg test a week and to know he can achieve that on 100 is impressive and I know he’s being honest.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

you tried the scrotal cream at some point, did you give up on it for any specific reason?

It made my sack itch. Also, I still find injections to be more practical.
But my TT and FT were pretty good on it: New Atrevis Hydrogel Based Testosterone Cream from Empower: Surprising Results!

 

[Nelson Vergel]

If it gave me the benefits of DHEA without the puffy face and lowered cortisol, I’d be thrilled.

I am still assessing this.

"Mechanistically, 7-keto may prevent the conversion of cortisone into cortisol by competitively interfering with the enzyme that mediates the conversion
Application of 25mg 7-keto via a cream for 8 days has failed to significantly modify circulating cortisol levels over 100 days of assessment in otherwise healthy male volunteers.[22]

Despite the above mechanisms, not enough evidence assessing the levels of circulating cortisol following 7-keto supplementation" From: 7-Keto DHEA Research Breakdown

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Last question, think it’s less risky to run it say 300 mg x 12 weeks vs running 1-200 mg year round?

Any protocol that reduces your chances of long term HDL suppression and high hematocrit may be the way to go.

Back in the days when I was concerned about wasting, I used 200 mg testosterone plus 200 mg nandrolone per week. I reduced it to 100 mg of each after two years and stayed on it for probably two years more (I used to stop nandrolone for 2 months until I started observing any potential unintentional weight loss).

To be honest, I am 63 years old and cannot definitely tell you if I did any permanent damage to my cardiovascular system with long term nandrolone plus T use. I get a complete cardiovascular assessment once per year. My only issue is high blood pressure (which I treat). On nandrolone, my HDL averaged 30 and hematocrit 50. My LDL has always been good. My calcium score is not the best (100) but that is common in people with long term HIV with no exposure to anabolics.

"Individuals infected with HIV have a significantly increased risk for a variety of cardiovascular complications, including acute myocardial infarction,2 heart failure with both reduced and preserved ejection fraction,3 sudden cardiac death,4 peripheral arterial disease,5 and stroke." Ref: https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.118.036211#:~:text=Individuals infected with HIV have,arterial disease,5 and stroke.


I am glad I used nandrolone. I am convinced that it saved my life. For some, steroid use builds hope

I stopped nandrolone around 2008 since it made my blood pressure significantly go up (water retention related) and also found out it really did not help at all with visceral fat.

Deca Durabolin (Nandrolone) Question for Nelson Vergel

www.excelmale.com

 

[tareload]

50 mg twice per week (either cypionate or enanthate, no difference) plus 500 IU hCG twice per week injected

TT: 1100 ng/dL
FT: 250 pg/mL

• To confirm, the numbers above are your E3.5D trough on the protocol?
• How much TT/fT impact do you get from the hCG on your trough?
• fT measurement is equilibrium dialysis?
• SHBG?

Thank you Nelson.