For Doctors: Prescribing Testosterone and Other Controlled Substances Without Getting Blown Up

[Nelson Vergel]

Improperly prescribing any substance can carry criminal implications. Improperly prescribing controlled substances like testosterone will result in criminal implications – to say nothing of what will happen to the offending doctor’s license. With that said, there are medical reasons for prescribing testosterone, and there are ways doctors can prescribe it to patients in need while mitigating risk. How?

Enter Mr. Rick Collins, JD. Mr. Collins is an esteemed legal authority in the field of many controlled substances – including testosterone. Dr. Jeff Segal and Mr. Collins discuss at length how to safely prescribe testosterone, the implications of marketing the substance, and how to occupy the interstice of what a patient wants and what the law allows.

Part 1: Prescribing Testosterone and Other Controlled Substances Without Getting Blown Up (Part 1 of 2)

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Part 2: Prescribing Testosterone and Other Controlled Substances Without Getting Blown Up (Part 2 of 2)

 

[Deleted member 43589]

I think this is the problem most doctors either have or fear of having. I know of two doctors I have used that either have been shut down by the DEA or harrassed by the DEA. My current doctos has been in proactice for over 30 years and said he is fed up with being told how to do his job. Even pharmacies feel they have the right to pile on.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

US Federal and State Regulations on Testosterone and HCG

Table of Contents Testosterone is a controlled substance in the US, specifically a Schedule-III controlled substance (in all but one State), and this includes any form of testosterone including injectable, transdermal, patches, pellets, and any compound or product containing testosterone as...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Deleted member 43589]

This is laughable......"HCG is a Schedule 3 drug in these 9 states: CA, CO, CT, MN, NV, NY, NC, PA, RI."

Marajauna is legal in CA, CO, CT, NV, NY, RI

What were people thinking in these states when they passed a law classifying HCG as a CIII drug.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

This is laughable......"HCG is a Schedule 3 drug in these 9 states: CA, CO, CT, MN, NV, NY, NC, PA, RI."

Right! Beats me!

 

[Sly]

This is laughable......"HCG is a Schedule 3 drug in these 9 states: CA, CO, CT, MN, NV, NY, NC, PA, RI."

Marajauna is legal in CA, CO, CT, NV, NY, RI

What were people thinking in these states when they passed a law classifying HCG as a CIII drug.

Most politicians are inept regarding hormones and are controlled by lobbyists. Alcohol and marijuana which alter the mind are legal and substances that enhance the quality of life are illegal. Whoever gives them money pulls the strings.

 

[DragonBits]

I think this is the problem most doctors either have or fear of having. I know of two doctors I have used that either have been shut down by the DEA or harrassed by the DEA. My current doctos has been in proactice for over 30 years and said he is fed up with being told how to do his job. Even pharmacies feel they have the right to pile on.

IMO pharmacies are just scared of getting sued.

CVS and Walgreens agree to pay $10 billion to settle lawsuits linked to opioid sales

CVS would pay about $5 billion and Walgreens more than $5.5 billion, though neither company has admitted wrongdoing. States have until the end of the year to accept the terms of the settlement.

www.npr.org

CVS and Walgreens agree to pay $10 billion to settle lawsuits linked to opioid sales​

pharmacies didn't prescribe these meds, but they get sued for filling orders. Everyone is looking for someone to blame for their own choices.

 

[Cataceous]

...
pharmacies didn't prescribe these meds, but they get sued for filling orders. Everyone is looking for someone to blame for their own choices.

I agree, but government participation in the shakedown makes it even worse. Remember that this was legal activity, already regulated by that same government. History gives us an idea of how this type of settlement is [mis]used:

The worst-case scenario, many say, is for the opioid settlement to end up like the tobacco master settlement of 1998.​

​

States won $246 billion over 25 years, but less than 3% of the annual payouts are used for smoking prevention or cessation programs, according to the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids. Most has gone toward filling budget gaps, building roads and subsidizing tobacco farmers.​

[R]

 

[tareload]

The wild card difference between hormone replacement and opioids is the trans trend. Just tell your Doc you are a natal male who is female inside and needs exogenous testosterone (and other goodies) to feel the right kind of male. If a female can get Test to feel male why can't a Dude get Test to get more male or more big/whatever. Perhaps you have Skinny Man Syndrome (SMS). Look it up in the DSM, it's right there.

Why not leverage clown world?

Senators ask Biden administration to loosen restrictions on testosterone access

We changed the settings since spammers were editing their prior posts to add links. Let me look into what to do so that respected members like you can be waived from that.

www.excelmale.com

Senate Democrats push for expanded access to testosterone

Senators Ed Markey & Elizabeth Warren urging the Biden administration to expand access to testosterone for gender affirming hormone therapy

www.losangelesblade.com

What's that I hear.....crickets?

The lawmakers noted the Biden administration’s work strengthening Section 1557 non-discrimination rulemaking and collaboration with states on broadening access to gender-affirming healthcare.

Their letter explains how the classification of testosterone makes it difficult for many patients to obtain: “Prescriptions for Schedule III and Schedule IV substances cannot be filled or refilled six months after the prescription was issued, or be refilled more than five times. On top of these requirements, states and private health insurers may impose further restrictions, such as 30-day limitations on controlled substances or limitations on mail delivery of prescriptions.”

Additionally, the Senators noted rescheduling or descheduling testosterone would exempt the drug from requirements that patients see their providers in-person before it is prescribed – requirements that might be reinstated if the pandemic-era rules broadening access to telemedicine are lifted.

Because the prescription of controlled substances is documented and tracked via states’ Prescription Drug Monitoring Programs, transgender people have expressed concerns that they might be outed “to their health care providers, pharmacists, family members, and other people and agencies with access to these lists,” Markey and Warren wrote.

Finally, they argued, the rules governing access to testosterone may increase instances of its illicit use by transgender people – raising health and safety concerns with the lack of medical supervision or monitoring and unregulated medicines and components.

The lawmakers requested written answers and “a staff level briefing” to questions in their letter from the Justice Department and HHS by October 7. These include requests for details about the agencies’ steps to begin reconsidering the Schedule III classification of testosterone and information about meetings they’ve had with representatives of the transgender community.

Bodybuilders and body dysmorphics must be 2nd class citizens.

After you have exhausted what there is in business, politics, conviviality, love, and so on — have found that none of these finally satisfy, or permanently wear — what remains? Nature remains; to bring out from their torpid recesses, the affinities of a man or woman with the open air, the trees, fields, the changes of seasons — the sun by day and the stars of heaven by night.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

IMO pharmacies are just scared of getting sued.

CVS and Walgreens agree to pay $10 billion to settle lawsuits linked to opioid sales

CVS would pay about $5 billion and Walgreens more than $5.5 billion, though neither company has admitted wrongdoing. States have until the end of the year to accept the terms of the settlement.

www.npr.org

CVS and Walgreens agree to pay $10 billion to settle lawsuits linked to opioid sales​

pharmacies didn't prescribe these meds, but they get sued for filling orders. Everyone is looking for someone to blame for their own choices.

Exactly, here is the real reason Oxycontin got out of control

"A big factor in the choice to market and promote OxyContin so aggressively was the fact that it was deemed non-addictive at first. Purdue Pharma claimed that the possibility of addiction was “less than one percent”. Due to this false claim and false advertising, doctors began to prescribe the drug the frequently to those who needed it."

Big pharma lies, the FDA drops the ball and everyone buys into the lie. Its too bad some states allow pharmacies to question and even deny the orders of a doctor. We had a similar problem when doctors wrote prescriptions for hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin in many states. The pharmacy, as you said did not write the prescription. Unfortunately our federal government has chosen to dump the burden off on pharmacies under 21 U.S.C. 829. "The person knowingly filling such a purported prescription, as well as the person issuing it, shall be subject to the penalties provided for violations of the provisions of law relating to controlled substances."

Yes, I agree a little personal responsibility goes a long way. But as you said, now days its always someone else’s' fault

 

[Belekas]

Good TV series on the same note FWIW
Dopesick (TV Mini Series 2021) - IMDb

 

[tareload]

Big pharma lies, the FDA drops the ball and everyone buys into the lie.

Congressional Inquiry into Alzheimer’s Drug Faults Its Maker and F.D.A. (Published 2022)

The report said the F.D.A.’s approval process for Aduhelm was “rife with irregularities” and criticized Biogen for setting an “unjustifiably high price.”

www.nytimes.com

The 18-month investigation, initiated by two congressional committees after the F.D.A. approved the drug, also strongly criticized Biogen, Aduhelm’s manufacturer. Internal documents showed the company set “an unjustifiably high price” of $56,000 a year for Aduhelm because it wanted a history-making “blockbuster” to “establish Aduhelm as one of the top pharmaceutical launches of all time,” even though it knew the high price would burden Medicare and patients, the report found.

The investigation said Biogen was prepared to spend up to several billion dollars — more than two-and-a-half times what it spent developing the drug — on aggressive marketing to counter expected “pushback” over whether Aduhelm was worth its price. The report said the campaign planned to target doctors, patients, advocacy groups, insurers, policymakers and communities of color, who were drastically underrepresented in its clinical trials of the drug.

The F.D.A. is now evaluating two other Alzheimer’s drugs for possible approval early next year, including one that Biogen helped develop. The congressional report said the agency “must take swift action to ensure that its processes for reviewing future Alzheimer’s disease treatments do not lead to the same doubts about the integrity of F.D.A.’s review.”

https://oversight.house.gov/sites/democrats.oversight.house.gov/files/Final_Document_Packet-Biogen_UPDATED_Redacted.pdf

 

[SteveCleves]

In my opinion, what is going to take down the TRT industry is that the industry right now is dominated by what are for all intents and purposes steroid dealers camouflaged as legitimate clinics.

I know one very popular clinic, just as an example, that has a reorder page that lists Test, HCG, Deca, Anavar, Winstrol, phentermine, GH, GH Peptides, and various other injectable products, where all you have to do is put in the amount you want and your credit card and you'll have those products overnighted to you from a legitimate compounding pharmacy, with a prescription from a Dr you've never spoken to and likely can't even pronounce name of. The only requirement is that at some point you submitted a blood test that showed total test to establish yourself as a patient. This example is just one very popular clinic, most of the Florida man TRT clinics operate the same or similar way.

This kind of stuff can only go on for so long before the 3 letter agencies crack down on it. All it will take is the son, nephew, grandson, etc of some senator to drop dead and subsequently be found out to have been on 200mgs of test, 200mgs of deca, 20mg a day of anavar + GH all prescribed by some clinic next to a waffle house outside Tampa and the whole thing will go up in smoke in a full tilt congressional overreaction.

 

[SteveCleves]

This is laughable......"HCG is a Schedule 3 drug in these 9 states: CA, CO, CT, MN, NV, NY, NC, PA, RI."

Marajauna is legal in CA, CO, CT, NV, NY, RI

What were people thinking in these states when they passed a law classifying HCG as a CIII drug.

Right! Beats me!

my guess is its probably an overreaction/crackdown to the HCG diet craze.

 

[tareload]

This kind of stuff can only go on for so long before the 3 letter agencies crack down on it. All it will take is the son, nephew, grandson, etc of some senator to drop dead and subsequently be found out to have been on 200mgs of test, 200mgs of deca, 20mg a day of anavar + GH all prescribed by some clinic next to a waffle house outside Tampa and the whole thing will go up in smoke in a full tilt congressional overreaction.

LMFAO. Thank you for this. Post of the month!!

Choking on my chicken breast.

 

[SteveCleves]

LMFAO. Thank you for this. Post of the month!!

Choking on my chicken breast.

It's basically what happened to prohormones. Everything was relatively ok when people were selling true prohormones like 4AD then people started putting out Superdrol, Pheraplex, Epistane. Someone noticed Mark McGwire had a bottle of andro in his locker, congress got involved and that was it. If you read interviews with Pat Arnold and Rick Collins they were actually close on a deal with congress and the FDA and DEA to keep true prohormones legal but the proliferation of oral steroids being sold as pro-hormones was such that they decided to blow up the industry.

The only thing that saved DHEA, believe it or not, was that Orin Hatch took if for longevity and his son was a lobbyist for the supplement industry.