E2 Under Five - What More Can I Do to Boost It?

[Tammysguy]

I inject 1.25 iu of 200 mg testosterone cypionate per week plus 1000 mg of hcg two days before the T. My last two tests of estradiol have been very low. They were not the sensitive tests, so I decided to get one from discounted labs. I got the results today and estradiol is at 4.8. My doctor has been trying to bring my estradiol up with high dosage HCG, but it isn't working. I have never used an AI. It is hurting my libido and morning erections. Does anyone know of a medication or something that would increase estradiol? Are there any success stories bringing estradiol up?

 

[Vince]

Have you had your DHEA levels checked, I'm like you, I get low estradiol levels. I supplement with DHEA to raise my E2, for me it works. I use Pure brand, 35mg daily.

 

[johndoesmith]

Full lab results, we're going to need full lab results. "4.8" isn't helpful for us, as your situation is vastly more complex than a single number.

Your doses don't make any sense, testosterone isn't measured in IU, and hCG isn't measured in mg. I assume you mean 1.25mL of 200mg/mL testosterone and 1000 IU of hCG?

 

[Tammysguy]

Yes. I supplement with 50 mgs per day of DHEA

 

[Tammysguy]

Those dosages are correct. I will post the labs later today when I can scan them or have time to type them in

 

[captain]

I recall reading that transdermal T can increase estradiol more than injected. If DHEA is not making estradiol too high at 50mg I would think you could take more of it. They say not to take more than 100mg because of increased estradiol but if you don't have that problem you probably could take more. I don't know but I am sure someone can tell us why you couldn't take a higher dose.

 

[johndoesmith]

Which doses are correct? The ones I listed or the ones you did? The ones you listed are not doses that are used for those drugs.

This sounds pretty involved so full labs will be best.

 

[Tammysguy]

The doses you listed are correct

 

[Tammysguy]

View attachment 818377_Lab_Report_9040110_Apr-15-2017.pdf
These are my most recent labs with the exception of the one I just did through Discounted Labs. The one I did through Discounted Labs:
Testosterone Serum 1284 ng/dl ref 348-1197
Free Testosterone 34.5 pg/ml ref 7.2-24
Estradiol, Sensitive 4.8 pg/ml ref 8.0-35.0

 

[user_joe]

So 250mg/wk single injection? How many weeks has it been?

 

[Tammysguy]

I started with 200 mg per week in Mid January after getting off cream and changing doctors. Then changed to 250 in early march, 300 mg in mid March (my request). Down to 250 2 weeks ago and due for my third shot of 250 today.

 

[user_joe]

I started with 200 mg per week in Mid January after getting off cream and changing doctors. Then changed to 250 in early march, 300 mg in mid March (my request). Down to 250 2 weeks ago and due for my third shot of 250 today.

I would look into liver liver function tests and other medications you are taking that could effect e2 conversion. You are definitely to the far end of the spectrum to say the least. It took me about 3 months to get e2 in range when starting but dosages were 100-150/wk with steady climbs.

 

[johndoesmith]

Honestly, that is really really suspicious. I've never seen an aromatization rate that low, other than case reports of aromatase deficiency.

I doubt you have that as it's very rare. Dr. Saya can you think of anything?

 

[Vince Carter]

When using DHEA for E purposes the delivery method and type is key, you want to use cheap OTC tablets and take them orally as a first pass thru the liver *can aromatase. If youre using TD creams or oral micronized capsules either will be less effective for E conversion.

 

[Vince Carter]

Honestly, that is really really suspicious. I've never seen an aromatization rate that low, other than case reports of aromatase deficiency.

I doubt you have that as it's very rare. Dr. Saya can you think of anything?

Even with a whopper single dose of 250mg...

 

[johndoesmith]

This study examined the effects of acute dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) ingestion on serum steroid hormones and the effect of chronic DHEA intake on the adaptations to resistance training. In 10 young men (23 ± 4 yr old), ingestion of 50 mg of DHEA increased serum androstenedione concentrations 150% within 60 min (P < 0.05) but did not affect serum testosterone and estrogen concentrations. An additional 19 men (23 ± 1 yr old) participated in an 8-wk whole body resistance-training program and ingested DHEA (150 mg/day,n = 9) or placebo (n = 10) during weeks 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, and 8. Serum androstenedione concentrations were significantly (P < 0.05) increased in the DHEA-treated group after 2 and 5 wk. Serum concentrations of free and total testosterone, estrone, estradiol, estriol, lipids, and liver transaminases were unaffected by supplementation and training, while strength and lean body mass increased significantly and similarly (P < 0.05) in the men treated with placebo and DHEA. These results suggest that DHEA ingestion does not enhance serum testosterone concentrations or adaptations associated with resistance training in young men.

http://jap.physiology.org/content/87/6/2274.short

In men, neither E1(98 6 12 to 100 6 5 pmol/l) nor E2 (80 6 7 to 68 6 4 pmol/l)levels changed significantly with DHEA administration

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2265.1998.00507.x/full

So yeah this whole DHEA increases estradiol in men is not fact based.

I've yet to find any evidence that supports DHEA raises E2, and I would LOVE to see some evidence of it, and until then, this myth needs to die.

 

[Vince]

http://jap.physiology.org/content/87/6/2274.short



http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2265.1998.00507.x/full

So yeah this whole DHEA increases estradiol in men is not fact based.

I've yet to find any evidence that supports DHEA raises E2, and I would LOVE to see some evidence of it, and until then, this myth needs to die.

The only study I have is me, DHEA does raise my estradiol levels. By stating this, I don't mean any disrespect to you.

 

[johndoesmith]

The only study I have is me, DHEA does raise my estradiol levels. By stating this, I don't mean any disrespect to you.

Of course, and I do not mean any disrespect by what I am stating.

What I mean, is that N=1 means absolutely nothing scientifically, you may have a genetic abnormality that 99% of the population does not have, and therefore anything you do is irrelevant to the average person. You could also just be wrong, and your E2 increase is a complete fluke that coincidentally happened to occur at the same time as you began to supplement DHEA.

Point is, this notion is regarded as truth on here, and the FACT is, there is zero scientific evidence to support it. Until there is some found, all it will remain is anecdotal.

In the same way that if a guy came here and posted "Clomid helped my testicular atrophy while on TRT" we'd all tell him he was wrong, because there is ZERO evidence of this being the case, and plenty of evidence disproving it.

Now, that is a particular subject that this forum dislikes, it's stigmatized IMO, in the opposite way that this myth of DHEA increasing E2 in men is parroted around as truth.

 

[Vince Carter]

Pre TRT / pre testing days DHEA drove me nuts, within an hour I was angry and aggressive, very negative experience with it, the cheap tablets anyway @ 50mg/D. I'd stop taking it a return to "normal" (whatever that is) absolutely throttled way back in those regards.

I'll take emipirical evidence over a study every day of the week but it's like anything else we deal with, some guys love it, some guys hate it, some guys is aromatases easily, and others get libido with it, and "it" can be just about anything...DHEA/Preg/HCG, to name a few.

 

[CoastWatcher]

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...entation-in-Elderly-Men-A-Meta-Analysis-Study

As Nelson points out, this meta-analysis indicates that estradiol rises in the presence of DHEA in most placebo-controlled studies as of the date of this effort.