Drastic increase in libido - currently multi-orgasmic to an extreme - any experience with this?

[bixt]

The question is whether your brain will adjust to that regimen and downregulate the response or it won't because of the see-saw nature of that specific protocol.

Yes, excellent question. Pretty sure the OP is hypogonadal for at least days 14-21 if not earlier and that may give the brain time to resensitise itself. That is my working hypothesis for the success of this protocol.

Most of the people on the 2-3 week rollercoaster report a "high" and a "low" while those on a high frequency stable protocol report feeling flat and anhedonistic all the time. Then they go looking for another magic bullet like nandrolone, progesterone, preg, etc etc etc in the hope that is the "missing key". Other than low libido, anhedonia and "dopamine" are the other main running themes on this forum.

 

[Systemlord]

This surge in testosterone causes a surge in dopamine, and once the body adapts to this new high levels, the honeymoon period starts to disappear after the body starts downregulating things to a normal level.

Take for example, you step into a hot shower, hotter than you’re used to, at first it’s too hot, but stay under the hot water long enough, sensory adaptation occurs.

 

[bixt]

Exactly! For the shower example, skip a day and do it again and then it works again as it did originally. Or cycle between cold and hot showers to make the hot shower feel good again temporarily etc.

So I propose the same mechanism for the cycling between high and low T feel good effects (in the OPs case low frequency long ester).

Yes, its ultimately the dopamine levels cycling (affected by the T levels) responsible for a lot of the good effects.

The key is to stop the downregulation, and alternating high and low T appears to work subjectively for this purpose.

 

[Systemlord]

Exactly! For the shower example, skip a day and do it again and then it works again as it did originally. Or cycle between cold and hot showers to make the hot shower feel good again temporarily etc.

So I propose the same mechanism for the cycling between high and low T feel good effects (in the OPs case low frequency long ester).

Yes, its ultimately the dopamine levels cycling (affected by the T levels) responsible for a lot of the good effects.

The key is to stop the downregulation, and alternating high and low T appears to work subjectively for this purpose.

When I started 75 mg once weekly, it wasn’t until 4 months that I started to feel a crash on day 6, a day before my injection, so my doctor put me on 50 mg twice weekly.

No more crash, but as time went on I stopped responding. Then found out frequent dosing but rapid decline in hormones was key to success.

This cycling of testosterone, let me introduce you to Jatenzo.

I actually had my own data, roughly 100 ng/dL decline every hour.

 

[sammmy]

The nasal Natesto is also a see-saw type protocol but on a smaller time scale of 12 hours and probably much smaller amplitude between the high and low state. Allegedly, that reduces the downregulation of the hormonal axis, but I haven't heard reports of people feeling great during the high phase. Same applies to the oral T.

This is similar to a drug user getting repeated highs with the same dose but trying to avoid development of tolerance by spacing the doses apart and suffering low states inbetween. I am not convinced that the brain integrative circuits will not figure it out eventually after say 10 cycles. I haven't heard reports from drug users that such strategy works, however they are not testing at 3 week intervals.

 

[bixt]

I am not convinced that the brain integrative circuits will not figure it out eventually after say 10 cycles.

Not being sarcastic or anything but you said you are using the benzo Temazapam for years and years without upping the dose and said it still works well. So you found a way to get your brain to not figure it out.

Maybe a similar concept could apply here?

I know variation is the key. Either daily variation using prop, cream, nasal gel, orals OR this 2-3 week rollercoaster.

There are absolutely ways to trick the brain. For example, consuming MDMA causes serotonin downregulation due to the rapid spike. Yet SSRIs do not cause a downregulation as serotonin is ramped up very gradually over weeks.

 

[Mastodont]

In Europe enanthate comes in 250mg/ml vials, the alternative is sustanon, so many guys that have been prescribed a bolus every 2-3 weeks just report having no issues hence do not want to try to fix what is not broken. They never visit forums. I have been wondering about natural production stepping in or even staying in on these rollercoasters, i have myself seen in my own labs many times LH even though exogenous t was still present, time had passed since injection. The funny thing is how some guys say they don't feel a rollercoaster, is the average forum guy too self aware? Could also just be that for some the body regulates estradiol, dht etc better from bolus doses.
If OP has them, it would be interesting to see all your pre TRT lab results, especially interested in SHBG, Estradiol.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Exactly! For the shower example, skip a day and do it again and then it works again as it did originally. Or cycle between cold and hot showers to make the hot shower feel good again temporarily etc.

So I propose the same mechanism for the cycling between high and low T feel good effects (in the OPs case low frequency long ester).

Yes, its ultimately the dopamine levels cycling (affected by the T levels) responsible for a lot of the good effects.

The key is to stop the downregulation, and alternating high and low T appears to work subjectively for this purpose.

In Europe enanthate comes in 250mg/ml vials, the alternative is sustanon, so many guys that have been prescribed a bolus every 2-3 weeks just report having no issues hence do not want to try to fix what is not broken. They never visit forums. I have been wondering about natural production stepping in or even staying in on these rollercoasters, i have myself seen in my own labs many times LH even though exogenous t was still present, time had passed since injection. The funny thing is how some guys say they don't feel a rollercoaster, is the average forum guy too self aware? Could also just be that for some the body regulates estradiol, dht etc better from bolus doses.
If OP has them, it would be interesting to see all your pre TRT lab results, especially interested in SHBG, Estradiol.

There are men on protocols that might not be considered ideal but they experience enough improvement to be satisfied. And as you state, they don't visit online forums. If you come from a place of low T and poor to no libido/erectile function and you're on a protocol that gets you to a place where you can have the desire and have sex once a week, the patient and doctor would consider that success. We don't know how many of such men are out there in the world! And we can also agree that in the realm of sex, the support/enthusiasm/passion of your spouse or partner is critical.

 

[Willyt]

The nasal Natesto is also a see-saw type protocol but on a smaller time scale of 12 hours and probably much smaller amplitude between the high and low state. Allegedly, that reduces the downregulation of the hormonal axis, but I haven't heard reports of people feeling great during the high phase. Same applies to the oral T.

This is similar to a drug user getting repeated highs with the same dose but trying to avoid development of tolerance by spacing the doses apart and suffering low states inbetween. I am not convinced that the brain integrative circuits will not figure it out eventually after say 10 cycles. I haven't heard reports from drug users that such strategy works, however they are not testing at 3 week intervals.

This is why I always say Natesto looks good on paper, but the results are underwhelming. Having experimented quite a bit with Natesto and Empower nasal gel, you definitely feel a surge similar to caffeine when peaking a hour later, but I experienced zero boost on libido. My pet theory has been that the fast acting T surge creates an E2 hangover which makes it difficult for body to balance.

That said, the fluctuation does help with sleep because your levels return to normal overnight as opposed to steady state Cyp/Enan

 

[sammmy]

Not being sarcastic or anything but you said you are using the benzo Temazapam for years and years without upping the dose and said it still works well. So you found a way to get your brain to not figure it out.

My brain clearly downregulated the response to temazepam i.e. developed a partial tolerance within the first few doses (a week) - I got from drowsy in the morning to non drowsy at all. I don't think the brain has time to restore the receptors within 12 hours during the day when the drug concentration is lower.
Fortunately, the 30mg temazepam dose is high enough that it overpowers that tolerance and still works, giving me 6-7 hours sleep. This seems to be very specific to temazepam and that's why I always say it is the drug of choice for insomnia. The other benzos are dosed too low for safety reasons, so once tolerance develops, you can't squeeze enough sleep from them.

For the present case of testosterone cypionate, the elimination half life is 8 days so the user injects every 3 half-lives. The time scale of days (instead of hours) is much longer and a naive expectation is that the brain will be able to restore the receptors at the end of the period but that may not be the case. Tolerance development hasn't been studied on such large time intervals between drug dosing.

 

[madman]

In the TRT world, you can’t determine success after two injections.

Let’s at least try to be realistic here.

Defy Medical has a good reputation for managing men and women on TRT/HRT, none of their doctors prescribe injections every 3 weeks. That’s because they know what the f*** they’re doing after treating 15,000+ patients.

For the fact that the OP is responding better than can be expected is a surprise piece of luck, nothing more, and has a small chance of long term success.

The OP’s doctor clearly doesn’t have a lot of experienced prescribing TRT.

Say it ain't so!

No doctor in the know would recommend let alone start someone on such protocol.

Many are still clueless when it comes to the PKs.

 

[madman]

Let me guess here.

After telling the OP to stay on that piss-poor protocol @bixt is going to tell him to start going to the gym so he can take full advantage of those 7 out of the 21-day cycle stellar T levels!

Get back to me on the results he gets when it comes to gaining muscle, increasing strength, losing adipose, and recovering from the workouts!

200 mg T every 3 weeks.....who knew!

 

[phalloguy100]

I’m so jealous of your response to TRT! That’s awesome man! I wish I could come over and over like that…

Now, when I first started TRT+hcg years ago, I had a similar response (not quite as high as coming 8 times in a row, more like 2-3 and very high libido). That response decreased over time, maybe after a couple of months. Once it normalized, I was still hornier than before treatment but refractory period went back to normal. As others have said, it’s possible you are in that “honeymoon” phase and it will downregulate over time.

So my advice to you: enjoy it while it lasts!!!!!!!

 

[Systemlord]

Say it ain't so!

No doctor in the know would recommend let alone start someone on such protocol.

Many are still clueless when it comes to the PKs.

I just talked to a guy at work, copy and paste, 200 mg every 21 days. He got his shot today and he feels great today, and says he always feels really good for the first week but the second week is nothing special, the third week is more of a struggle.

He’s taking the path of least resistance.

His muscles look poorly defined, flat and flabby, because he has low-T more than 50% of the time. At 14 days in he’s at 182 ng/dL and below 100 before the start of week three.

This is no way to live!

 

[jnde207]

Now a couple months after starting TRT, I have become extremely multi-orgasmic. I mean 6+ full scale ejaculations in a session with many more minor ones. Until now, I have been one-and-done for almost my entire life. My semen is clear and more watery, even the first of the day.

I have gone from having a refractory period of a couple days to pretty much none. My wife is thrilled, and I am grateful. My libido is through the roof. I don't think it was this powerful as a teenager.

That said, this feels too good to be true. My doctor says he has seen nothing in the literature about TRT inducing multiple orgasms, so he is not worried about it at present.

I have been on TRT for 8 weeks. I do 200 mg intramuscular injection every 21 days. Blood tests tamed from 198-225 before treatment, now at 800 treating 7 days after injection. I have likely run pretty low my whole life based on general evidence. As a complicating factor, it is entirely possible that chemo from canner treatments 1.5 years ago are what caused my T to finally dip so low the assumptions were truly awful. It could also be age, given that I am in my mid-40s. The cancer is unrelated to my T levels directly, but one chemo drug is known to sometimes harm the gonads.

Have any of you had this experience with a crazy increase in sexual function and desire? Should I be worried about anything or high fiving strangers because this is awesome if it is not a sign of anything bad?

Just enjoy it while it lasts, it'll cum and go. (No pun intended, lol)....
I started test E 250mg/wk with tren E 200mg/eow, 5 weeks ago, and ever since I haven't been able to keep mine down, and my wife is always asking me if it's supposed to stay that big when it's soft, lol.
I haven't had the multi orgasm thing but then again I haven't tried, there was a couple days here and there that I've had to either have sex 3 times a day or masturbate or a mix of both to keep it under control.
I had a vasectomy 3 years ago and it hadn't been the same since then, but they'll tell you a vasectomy doesn't effect that, but obviously it did, lol.
I went from before the vasectomy being able to fill her mouth and to cover her face and chest with one load, to after the vasectomy, not even producing a teaspoon full.
But anyways, like I said, enjoy it, cause it might not be that way next week.

 

[jnde207]

I just talked to a guy at work, copy and paste, 200 mg every 21 days. He got his shot today and he feels great today, and says he always feels really good for the first week but the second week is nothing special, the third week is more of a struggle.

He’s taking the path of least resistance.

This is no way to live!

Tell him to tell his Dr that he'll do the injections himself at home, and split it up in smaller doses once a week if possible, and if there's not enough (test) in the bottle to last him then he'll have to do like everyone else on here and get some from a "friend".
All BS aside tho, he's gotta be miserable, and that Dr doesn't know anything obviously, and he's probably one of those drs that doesn't even believe patients should take test.

 

[Charliebizz]

In Europe enanthate comes in 250mg/ml vials, the alternative is sustanon, so many guys that have been prescribed a bolus every 2-3 weeks just report having no issues hence do not want to try to fix what is not broken. They never visit forums. I have been wondering about natural production stepping in or even staying in on these rollercoasters, i have myself seen in my own labs many times LH even though exogenous t was still present, time had passed since injection. The funny thing is how some guys say they don't feel a rollercoaster, is the average forum guy too self aware? Could also just be that for some the body regulates estradiol, dht etc better from bolus doses.
If OP has them, it would be interesting to see all your pre TRT lab results, especially interested in SHBG, Estradiol.

That’s the problem with the life long forum dwellers (systemlord). They think we are the majority. When I’m reality we are the minority.almost Everyone I know on trt (outside of this forum) are on old simple protocols. They don’t even know about e2,dht,shbg you get my point. And they are all doing well. It’s guys like me who come and research like a madman before we start and get too much information, become hyper aware of every little thing going on in our body’s and become a train wreck before we even start. I’m not saying that these old protocols would have worked for all of us from jump. And some of us here only came here after trt gave us issues. But we are the minority

 

[Systemlord]

Dr doesn't know anything obviously, and he's probably one of those drs that doesn't even believe patients should take test.

He told me that his Urologist told him, that running high normal levels all the time has risks.

This Urologist is in his late 60s.

 

[Willyt]

That’s the problem with the life long forum dwellers (systemlord). They think we are the majority. When I’m reality we are the minority.almost Everyone I know on trt (outside of this forum) are on old simple protocols. They don’t even know about e2,dht,shbg you get my point. And they are all doing well. It’s guys like me who come and research like a madman before we start and get too much information, become hyper aware of every little thing going on in our body’s and become a train wreck before we even start. I’m not saying that these old protocols would have worked for all of us from jump. And some of us here only came here after trt gave us issues. But we are the minority

You're right of course Charlie that many on this forum are here because they are having issues and/or trying to find ways to minimize side effects. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the "old protocols" work for the majority who are not seeking out advice ono forums.

I would be very curious to know what percentage of patients stick with TRT more than one year. My guess is that the drop rate is very substantial. Consider the typical case -generalist physician gives some poor bastard a 25 gauge x 1" harpoon for bi-weekly injection rollercoaster with excessive dose and AI. What could possibly go wrong? Guy feels wonderful for a month and then shitty for the next eleven.

 

[Charliebizz]

You're right of course Charlie that many on this forum are here because they are having issues and/or trying to find ways to minimize side effects. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the "old protocols" work for the majority who are not seeking out advice ono forums.

I would be very curious to know what percentage of patients stick with TRT more than one year. My guess is that the drop rate is very substantial. Consider the typical case -generalist physician gives some poor bastard a 25 gauge x 1" harpoon for bi-weekly injection rollercoaster with excessive dose and AI. What could possibly go wrong? Guy feels wonderful for a month and then shitty for the next eleven.

I honestly don’t think many urologists or endos (would would typically give most of the population trt ) are prescribing a.I. but regardless of the fact many of us (me included) obsess and overthink Trt and severely complicate it. And trust me I couldn’t tolerate injections for whatever reason!! so I’m talking about myself also lol