Does anyone use Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin) ?

[JimGainz]

From my research I noticed that deca has arterial toxicity and cardiovascular risks through long term use. that's true? I'm researching a lot about it because I have a certain interest in using it in my trt

I looked at those studies - mostly on rats. I asked my cardiologist and he said the results are inconsistent and there would never be a human study on long term, low dose Nandrolone use on cardiac health. FWIW- there is a cardiac surgeon on YouTube, dr Carlson I believe, that touts the many benefits of this drug at therapeutic doses with no side effects.

I will say this - I’ve been on for over 12 weeks at around 80mg/ week and I feel better than I have in decades. It’s unreal. It’s like I’m in a younger body. The long term risks you mentioned are on my mind as well but I can’t get past the benefits (not waking up with wide spread joint pain is such a blessing - I don’t even want to think of coming off now).

My labs are due soon and I’ll check HDL/ LDL etc and may post back but I do not foresee any major risks at the low dose.

 

[Albert39]

Hi I did use it 4 times in the last 2 years, for about 12 weeks each, after 12 weeks I do no feel that have improvents so I rest for a few monts.
I use 125 Mg/week 1 shot per week.
Last time I use it Ive troubles, Ive pain and rednes in one pectoral, it get better after 3 days of cabergolin.
Allways Have cabergolin, take it for prevention or like a lifesaver just in case. Have it near !

 

[Nelson Vergel]

From my research I noticed that deca has arterial toxicity and cardiovascular risks through long term use. that's true? I'm researching a lot about it because I have a certain interest in using it in my trt

Nandrolone is the most studied anabolic steroid of all. Yes, there is some data in animals exposed to high doses that show some heart issues.

Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin) Studies in Humans

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378427415300928

 

[Sakuraba39]

The research is out there and it's not difficult to find.

If you already have heart issues, I'd stay away.

I quit answering DMs about it because it's typically someone that doesn't have a medical necessity for it and are just looking for a way around Rx issues.

 

[bochinit]

Sorry if I don't specify my situation, I'm asking because I was reading the forum and all posts for days, I have HVI and want to use this steroid for long-term. I'm athlete and already on TRT, also I have access of this product anyway and willing to learn about everything of the compound and possible side effects.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Sorry if I don't specify my situation, I'm asking because I was reading the forum and all posts for days, I have HVI and want to use this steroid for long-term. I'm athlete and already on TRT, also I have access of this product anyway and willing to learn about everything of the compound and possible side effects.

Download and read my first book:

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nandrolone hiv excelmale.com site:www.excelmale.com - Google Search

 

[JimGainz]

I looked at those studies - mostly on rats. I asked my cardiologist and he said the results are inconsistent and there would never be a human study on long term, low dose Nandrolone use on cardiac health. FWIW- there is a cardiac surgeon on YouTube, dr Carlson I believe, that touts the many benefits of this drug at therapeutic doses with no side effects.

I will say this - I’ve been on for over 12 weeks at around 80mg/ week and I feel better than I have in decades. It’s unreal. It’s like I’m in a younger body. The long term risks you mentioned are on my mind as well but I can’t get past the benefits (not waking up with wide spread joint pain is such a blessing - I don’t even want to think of coming off now).

My labs are due soon and I’ll check HDL/ LDL etc and may post back but I do not foresee any major risks at the low dose.

My labs are in brothers. And they rock:

This is after 3.5 months on 80 mg - and I had the best labs ever. Go figure.

Creatinine 1.2 (for years I was between 1.3 and 1.4 and concerned that the Nandrolone would further raise this - it did not - it lowered it despite having more muscle mass.

As for lipids : HDL 60; LDL 65, triglycerides 45. Total 135. Pretty consistent if not a slight improvement from pre Nandrolone. I take 5mg Crestor nightly to manage high cholesterol btw. These are outstanding lipids.

Hematocrit 47%

Total test 800
Free test 200.

Before you read this next lab result, note that i dropped my AI completely because it kept crashing E2 to single digits 4 months ago:

Estradiol 90. Yeah - gonna be adding back that AI. But I have no E2 symptoms.

Everything else was perfect. Tsh improved as well to 2.6 from 3.3 (been taking T3 meds for over a year and this was the lowest it’s been).

So there you have it. No increase in anything negative. I’m actually blown away by these numbers - expected to see some challenges from
Nandrolone but clearly this is not the case.

Joints feel great and I’m holding steady at 6’ 202lbs ~10% body fat with no dieting at 53 y/o.

 

[bochinit]

My labs are in brothers. And they rock:

This is after 3.5 months on 80 mg - and I had the best labs ever. Go figure.

Creatinine 1.2 (for years I was between 1.3 and 1.4 and concerned that the Nandrolone would further raise this - it did not - it lowered it despite having more muscle mass.

As for lipids : HDL 60; LDL 65, triglycerides 45. Total 135. Pretty consistent if not a slight improvement from pre Nandrolone. I take 5mg Crestor nightly to manage high cholesterol btw. These are outstanding lipids.

Hematocrit 47%

Total test 800
Free test 200.

Before you read this next lab result, note that i dropped my AI completely because it kept crashing E2 to single digits 4 months ago:

Estradiol 90. Yeah - gonna be adding back that AI. But I have no E2 symptoms.

Everything else was perfect. Tsh improved as well to 2.6 from 3.3 (been taking T3 meds for over a year and this was the lowest it’s been).

So there you have it. No increase in anything negative. I’m actually blown away by these numbers - expected to see some challenges from
Nandrolone but clearly this is not the case.

Joints feel great and I’m holding steady at 6’ 202lbs ~10% body fat with no dieting at 53 y/o.

Whatsur current Testosterone protocol alongside your 80mg of Nandrolone? How are you feeling beside the labs? Any side effect of libido decrease?

 

[JimGainz]

Whatsur current Testosterone protocol alongside your 80mg of Nandrolone? How are you feeling beside the labs? Any side effect of libido decrease?

I take 110 mg Test cyp weekly split into two doses along with 300 IU HCG. No AI as I stated. Feel great. No change in libido that I can tell.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Estradiol 90. Yeah - gonna be adding back that AI. But I have no E2 symptoms.

Don't mess with your estradiol. Your lab values are great. Read this The Benefits of Estrogen in BodyBuilding

 

[Wilson7]

New to this board, excellent source of real life info on TRT and nandrolone. After reading through this thread some thoughts. The age mgmt docs I know do not use AI unless there are Sx of E2 excess. I've tried them with my current HRT (100 mg/TC sc every 4 days and 500 IU HCG every 4 days). They tanked my E2 < 20. Without them I run in the 60 - 80 range, no issues with E2 excess. Only when I was younger and had a T < 200 ng/dl did I have gyno issues. I also ran deca 200 mg/2 weeks and 350 IU HCG 2x/wk for 10 years 1995 to 2005 because of the gyno. Primary issue was erythrocytosis. I have mild concentric hypertrophy but not different than in the early 90's, some fibrosis (cardiac MRI) but they are seeing it in older guys that lift or run more now regardless. Little change in cardiac function (echo or dimensions) since the 90's. I've been through the animal lit on nandrolone, also have talked to docs that have seen some systolic/diastolic dysfunction in high dose nandrolone uses, note high dose probably along with other AAS and stimulants so it is very hard to tease out whether nandrolone is the problem or dosing and other confounding variables are making it a problem. In rabbits only the 10 mg/kg dose caused cardiac issues, the 4 mg/kg did not. Remember the high dose animal studies are there to dissuade AAS abuse, it doesn't help us sort out any potential problems with clinical dosing. We need human data, speculation is useless. If you are concerned about the effects of nandrolone, get a baseline echo and then compare in a year. At the very least track BNP (brain natriuretic peptide) along with you labs. If your value is under 35 pg/ml and stable, it is a good indication that there are no pressure changes occurring in the heart relating to function. If there is an issue and you catch it early, it can likely be reversed in the case of AAS. Nelson, did you ever have an echo done to confirm or refute any changes in cardiac function related to the nandrolone? I think the only way we get to an answer on this is to have men/women using nandrolone have baseline and follow up echos. Collect enough data on dosing/duration and family history and we can at least get some direction on the topic. To date though, I have not seen case reports with clinical dosing leading to cardiac dysfunction in the absence of other risk factors. Lastly, decreased HDL risks are overstated. There is a difference between endogenously low HDL or a dysfunctional HDL transport system with normal or elevated HDL and pharmacologic manipulation. It is clear now that efforts to increase circulating HDL pharmacologically have not lead to meaningful decrease in CAD risk, men on ADT have increased HDL but also increased CAD risk, there are populations with high HDL and increased risk of CAD. Androgens increase hepatic lipase activity and scavenger receptor b1 that increase turnover of HDL, that is very different than a situation where someone has an intrinsically low and cardiovascular disease. Obviously suppressing HDL to < 10 with high doses of oral androgens may be another story, taking it into the 30's probably isn't. I've always been 35 - 40. CT angiogram score this year at age 61 was zero. That's 35 yrs on HRT, 10 of those on deca. Prior to HRT I was in the 60's, LDL was always less than 100, now around 65. As you get older you become more sensitive to erythrocytosis, regular phlebos or blood donation (assuming you're not on proscar or avodart) is the simple solution. I get one every 10 weeks and keep HCT < 52%, again androgen induced erythrocytosis is not the same as that of polycythemia vera. Guys in Denver on HRT have HCTs of 60 and are not stroking out. Not that it should be taken lightly but it is easily managed.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Nelson, did you ever have an echo done to confirm or refute any changes in cardiac function related to the nandrolone?

I get one as part of my physical every year. All good.
Rat studies used doses equivalent to over 3000 mg in humans. Doses used clinically rarely exceed 200 mg.

 

[Scottsyracuse]

Nandrolone is the most studied anabolic steroid of all. Yes, there is some data in animals exposed to high doses that show some heart issues.

Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin) Studies in Humans

Cardiotoxicity in rabbits after long-term nandrolone decanoate administration - ScienceDirect

Nelson, I used nandrolone decanoate at 200mg/week for 8 weeks when I was 29 (1990). I did not use anything else before, during or after that. I had some acne, felt great, and gained some nice upper body muscle as my friends and I lifted fanatically. It did give me slightly less hard erections, for some months after, I did not understand that symptom at that time, but I was at least aware enough to know it was the Deca. The muscle gains lasted for years. I am now 58, and like some guys on this post, I'd like to add it to my TRT regimen for awhile. I assume a therapuetic protocol of testosterone will keep the ED away. Do American providers like Defy prescribe nandrolone? I dont want to buy something from timbuktu and be unsure of the content.

 

[JimGainz]

Nelson, I used nandrolone decanoate at 200mg/week for 8 weeks when I was 29 (1990). I did not use anything else before, during or after that. I had some acne, felt great, and gained some nice upper body muscle as my friends and I lifted fanatically. It did give me slightly less hard erections, for some months after, I did not understand that symptom at that time, but I was at least aware enough to know it was the Deca. The muscle gains lasted for years. I am now 58, and like some guys on this post, I'd like to add it to my TRT regimen for awhile. I assume a therapuetic protocol of testosterone will keep the ED away. Do American providers like Defy prescribe nandrolone? I dont want to buy something from timbuktu and be unsure of the content.

They do but since it’s a highly regulated substance you can’t just call them up and ask for it. You will need to be a patient for a while and show a demonstrated history, with doctor notes / surgeries to get an Rx for label joint pain relief.

 

[Wilson7]

The months after was likely a result of suppression of endogenous T/DHT. A number of docs are now going with a T/N blend for HRT, about 75/25%, respectively, no more than 50/50. For 10 years I was on 200 mg of N every other week and 350 IU of HCG twice a week by prescription. Erythrocytosis and increased iron was the only issue and that's an easy fix, donate blood or get regular phlebos. PSA was O.2. At some point I would think the Endocrine Society will push the FDA to put the lid on mixing N with T regardless of benefits for HRT. While I don't recommend it, the number of good underground labs making N has increased dramatically over the years because of demand, you just have to know your source and there are legal risks of a controlled delivery. Some of the UG labs are probably as good or better than FDA regulated generic labs. One bad batch and the word is all over the internet and that lab either goes away or gets busted because someone turns them in. Pretty f'd up world we live in but you can't control what you don't regulate and if you prevent docs from regulating and managing, it will go underground and that benefits no one.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Some doctors are prescribing it for joint recovery

 

[SilverSurfer]

I just started Deca two weeks ago. I’m using it only for joint pain. Any other gains I get from it is just gravy. I wouldn’t use it otherwise. At age 50 and happily married, I’m not interested in any health risks just for cosmetic purposes or strength gains, simply for bragging rights.

I’m running 250 mg per week for a planned 10 weeks or less. (I’m on 150 mg Testosterone per week). I’ve noticed my joint pain lessening just in the past 2 days. If my pain is gone at week 4 or 5, I’ll probably quit before the 10 weeks are up. I have noticed I’ve added some muscle mass already due to the Deca, so that’s a nice +.

 

[madman]

I just started Deca two weeks ago. I’m using it only for joint pain. Any other gains I get from it is just gravy. I wouldn’t use it otherwise. At age 50 and happily married, I’m not interested in any health risks just for cosmetic purposes or strength gains, simply for bragging rights.

I’m running 250 mg per week for a planned 10 weeks or less. (I’m on 150 mg Testosterone per week). I’ve noticed my joint pain lessening just in the past 2 days. If my pain is gone at week 4 or 5, I’ll probably quit before the 10 weeks are up. I have noticed I’ve added some muscle mass already due to the Deca, so that’s a nice +.

I’m using it only for joint pain.

If you meant 250 mg/week as in (100 mg nandrolone + 150 mg T)


"I’m running 250 mg per week for a planned 10 weeks or less. (I’m on 150 mg Testosterone per week)"

If you meant 250mg of nandrolone along your 150 mg/week T .....than this is not a dose for joint pain.....more like 50-100 mg/week!

The only reason to use such dose 200+mg/week would be for muscle enhancement or in cases of patients suffering from a health related issue which causes muscle wasting.

No one is making any significant muscle gains on less than 200 mg/week and even than to truly reap the full beneficial effects of nandrolone on tissue building (actin/myosin) doses of 400-600 mg/week range would be needed.

Laughable when you here people (many on the forum) stating that they are using 50-100 mg/week and speaking about making muscle gains.....at such dose it would be minimal as in pointless.

 

[SilverSurfer]

I’m using it only for joint pain.

If you meant 250 mg/week as in (100 mg nandrolone + 150 mg T)


"I’m running 250 mg per week for a planned 10 weeks or less. (I’m on 150 mg Testosterone per week)"

If you meant 250mg of nandrolone along your 150 mg/week T .....than this is not a dose for joint pain.....more like 50-100 mg/week!

The only reason to use such dose 200+mg/week would be for muscle enhancement or in cases of patients suffering from a health related issue which causes muscle wasting.

No one is making any significant muscle gains on less than 200 mg/week and even than to truly reap the full beneficial effects of nandrolone on tissue building (actin/myosin) doses of 400-600 mg/week range would be needed.

Laughable when you here people (many on the forum) stating that they are using 50-100 mg/week and speaking about making muscle gains.....at such dose it would be minimal as in pointless.

Hmmmm, yes I’m on 150 mg TRT + 250 mg Deca per week. I saw Virgil who said he had run it for years, recommend 200 mg per week. But perhaps I misunderstood what he was referring to, as you just pointed out above. A friend of mine shared his experience running 200 mg for 14 weeks, and another said he did 300 mg for 8 weeks.

I’ll have to do some additional research.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Laughable when you here people (many on the forum) stating that they are using 50-100 mg/week and speaking about making muscle gains.....at such dose it would be minimal as in pointless.

I strongly disagree with this, and I think it's thinking like this that pushes people to assume they need higher than necessary doses of just about everything, and the risks and side effects that come with those higher doses. Once one has reached their genetic maximum, and if that someone is a high responder, then micro doses may allow modest gains that would be unlikely without an anabolic boost. No, I don't have any studies to cite ( I wish there were some on this) however as two data points, the supposed techniques used by tested athletes are essentially micro doses (i.e. T troches) and the early days of steroids often used baby doses by today's standards: I believe the original suggested dose of D-bol was one 3mg tablet per day. I'm well aware that many on other forums believe what you said, however if you read the muscle and strength gains they believe they should be getting, those gains are IMO and IME totally excessive and compressed into an unrealistic timeframe. While gains for gains sake may in some cases be pointless, gains that aid in injury recovery or prevention, or performance in a otherwise healthy sport are IMO not pointless.