Deca (nandrolone) for joint pain

[Craig74]

Nandrolone decanoate relieves joint pain in hypogonadal men: a novel prospective pilot study and review of the literature - PMC

Testosterone is an archetypal androgenic-anabolic steroid (AAS), while its exogenous administration is considered to be the gold standard for the treatment of male hypogonadism. The benefits are not due to its intrinsic nature alone but are due to ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

MHi all,

I've been on TRT for 1.5 years now and absolutely love it. Mood, energy levels, libido, are all improved. In the case of libido, my wife says it is TOO improved but that's another story.

I'm 48 years old and have been doing BJJ for 6 years. BJJ is really hard on the joints (as is age) but I do believe by TRT protocol has contributed as my joint pain has increased considerably in the past year or so. I crashed my estrogen for awhile which probably contributed. Regardless of the role of TRT in my joint pain, I was told that deca (nandrolone) really helps with joints and I've managed to procure some. I'm planning on running a low therapeutic dose (100mg/week) for 20 weeks along with my prescribed TRT dose of 120mg/week (60mg 2x per week).

I've heard that some of the sides include "deca dick" and prostate irritation. My PSA is already 2 so hoping it doesn't push it higher so that my TRT doc doesn't pull my prescription. BTW: I didn't explicitly ask my TRT doc for Deca and I know it is fairly routinely prescribed by clinics in the USA but I don't believe it is indicated for joint pain here in Canada and doctors don't seem to prescribe it. I did tell him that I had joint pain and the only change he made to my protocol was to add DHEA which didn't seem to make a difference.

I have tried every OTC remedy out there with limited impact. I have a decent diet (could be better) and I stretch religiously.

Curious about other people's experiences with Deca both in terms of effectiveness and sides.

Thanks!

 

[madman]

Hi all,

I've been on TRT for 1.5 years now and absolutely love it. Mood, energy levels, libido, are all improved. In the case of libido, my wife says it is TOO improved but that's another story.

I'm 48 years old and have been doing BJJ for 6 years. BJJ is really hard on the joints (as is age) but I do believe by TRT protocol has contributed as my joint pain has increased considerably in the past year or so. I crashed my estrogen for awhile which probably contributed. Regardless of the role of TRT in my joint pain, I was told that deca (nandrolone) really helps with joints and I've managed to procure some. I'm planning on running a low therapeutic dose (100mg/week) for 20 weeks along with my prescribed TRT dose of 120mg/week (60mg 2x per week).

I've heard that some of the sides include "deca dick" and prostate irritation. My PSA is already 2 so hoping it doesn't push it higher so that my TRT doc doesn't pull my prescription. BTW: I didn't explicitly ask my TRT doc for Deca and I know it is fairly routinely prescribed by clinics in the USA but I don't believe it is indicated for joint pain here in Canada and doctors don't seem to prescribe it. I did tell him that I had joint pain and the only change he made to my protocol was to add DHEA which didn't seem to make a difference.

I have tried every OTC remedy out there with limited impact. I have a decent diet (could be better) and I stretch religiously.

Curious about other people's experiences with Deca both in terms of effectiveness and sides.

Thanks!

This has been beaten to death on here, with numerous threads/posts on the forum.

No one is being prescribed ND in Canada unless you suffer from cachexia (wasting syndrome).

Big pharma is no longer manufactured/available here and if you were prescribed ND for a legit medical condition {HIV, cancer cachexia) then it would be obtained through a compounding pharmacy.

Your only other option as you know is f**king with UGL gear and in such case, you better hope your source is legit.

Depending on the source UGL gear can be underdosed/overdosed, unsterile, or contain a completely different compound, or bunk!

Nandrolone is considered one of the mildest compounds when it comes to androgenic side effects.

When using therapeutic doses of 50-100 mg/week sides should be minimal although some may struggle with increased hemoglobin/hematocrit or decreased HDL and even then this would be more common when using higher doses.

Some may struggle with libido/ED issues or notice a negative effect on mood.

None of this is a given and no one can say how you will react to such a compound.

Only time will tell.

Would not put the blame on TRT for causing your joint issues.

Sure if you crashed your estradiol with the use of an AI then it could lead to issues but I would put more of the blame on your age and how you are training (mixed martial arts, weightlifting) which can easily beat up your joints/tendons/ligaments over time.

We need to learn to train smarter as we age otherwise your joints/tendons will continue to take a beating and you will pay the price sooner or later.

Would not even waste my time using ND unless you plan on training smarter.

Something as effective for joints as Nandrolone

Good afternoon Gents, Was wondering if glucosamine, chondroitin, or MSM are even close to nandrolone when it comes to joint pain. Anyone have any experience?

www.excelmale.com

My reply from a previous thread:

Although using therapeutic doses (50-100 mg/week) of ND can minimize joint pain/stiffness for some it is a grave mistake to think that using it will prevent any further damage to joints/ligaments and tendons especially if you continue to keep lifting heavy long-term.

No amount of ND/AAS let alone GH is going to prevent damage to joints/ligaments/tendons from overuse/repetitive heavy lifting long-term.

Talk to anyone who has been lifting heavy let alone training for years eventually there will be some degree of wear and tear especially on the joints/tendons.

Many men struggling with what they think is tendonitis end up having tendinosis which is degeneration of the tendons.

Regarding tendonitis in most cases when one has been strength training for a long time (years) most in fact develop tendinosis as opposed to tendinitis (which they think they have) and when one develops tendinosis the tendons are much more prone to a tear as tendinosis is a degeneration of the tendons collagen from chronic overuse.

Aging will also have a big impact on tendon/joint health.

As we age one needs to train smarter as you will notice it is very common for most who have been weight training for years to end up with damage to the joints/ligaments/tendons from the repetitive wear/tear on the body.


Important points to keep in mind:

* worn out/degenerative cartilage never grows back

* individual tendon architecture is exquisitely tuned for optimal function, and scar-like healing generally fails to return to its pre-injury structure

 

[Craig74]

Great advice. Thanks madman!

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Fixes for Joint Issues: A list of Some Basics

Every few months or so, a post seems to come along saying something along the lines of “should I do PRP or Stem Cells or Nandrolone or anti-inflammatory injections or [insert something exotic here] for joint issues”. While all of these and others likely have their place, they are often either...

www.excelmale.com

My two cents...you don't want to just cover up the pain but rather should focus on eliminating the cause. If you have access to NPP, I would start with that since the shorter ester will clear faster if you have issues. Some others have seen benefit from as low as 40mg so I would start with that and adjust up if necessary.

 

[Vince]

Hi all,

I've been on TRT for 1.5 years now and absolutely love it. Mood, energy levels, libido, are all improved. In the case of libido, my wife says it is TOO improved but that's another story.

I'm 48 years old and have been doing BJJ for 6 years. BJJ is really hard on the joints (as is age) but I do believe by TRT protocol has contributed as my joint pain has increased considerably in the past year or so. I crashed my estrogen for awhile which probably contributed. Regardless of the role of TRT in my joint pain, I was told that deca (nandrolone) really helps with joints and I've managed to procure some. I'm planning on running a low therapeutic dose (100mg/week) for 20 weeks along with my prescribed TRT dose of 120mg/week (60mg 2x per week).

I've heard that some of the sides include "deca dick" and prostate irritation. My PSA is already 2 so hoping it doesn't push it higher so that my TRT doc doesn't pull my prescription. BTW: I didn't explicitly ask my TRT doc for Deca and I know it is fairly routinely prescribed by clinics in the USA but I don't believe it is indicated for joint pain here in Canada and doctors don't seem to prescribe it. I did tell him that I had joint pain and the only change he made to my protocol was to add DHEA which didn't seem to make a difference.

I have tried every OTC remedy out there with limited impact. I have a decent diet (could be better) and I stretch religiously.

Curious about other people's experiences with Deca both in terms of effectiveness and sides.

Thanks!

I've also used nandrolone and made a few threads on the subject. You may want to look into them.

Search results for query: Nandrolone

www.excelmale.com

 

[nodoctor]

My understanding and anecdotal experts that bpc157 and tb800 are good for healing in general including joints. I’m also on low dose deca to go with my Cypionate without sides.

 

[Gman86]

My understanding and anecdotal experts that bpc157 and tb800 are good for healing in general including joints. I’m also on low dose deca to go with my Cypionate without sides.

What’s ur text and nandrolone doses per week?

 

[nodoctor]

80mg cyp, 25 deca. I know people generally feel a larger dose of deca is required, but I wanted to start light for at least a few months to see if I got sides. I’ve been hyper reactive to some other things.

 

[JimGainz]

I have used Nandrolone for several years now along with my TRT and I’ve posted my results within this forum. First of all, I believe you’re probably going to need at least 100 mg to feel the effects. At least initially. From my experience a hundred milligrams a week will provide a nice overall reduction in inflammation and pain across your entire body. You will also notice some muscle mass increases assuming you lift weights. You can take it from there. You can try it for three months and then just cycle off or stay on longer term or adjust your dose up and down. My current protocol has been taking about 120 mg a week for the last six months. Recently I just lowered it to 40 mg just to see how low I could go and I am doing OK but the pain is certainly coming back.

You also have to realize that nandrolone does not cure any joint issues. It only reduces the inflammation, swelling and pain. This is a huge blessing but you have to be careful. Twice when I started lowering my dose after running it for several months I wound up getting injured because I kept my current weight lifting protocol. While on the Nandrolone, I got bigger and stronger and started lifting heavier weights. It was no problem and in fact I felt better than ever. But when I cycled down and lowered the dose -keeping weights about the same -I wound up stressing my old injuries again. So just remember to lower your intensity because you won’t have the nandrolone benefit if you come off. Other than that I wound highly recommend it’s use. Allowed me to do things I haven’t been able to do in a decade or more – like walk up and down stairs without pain, lift weights with a Barbell without neck and shoulder pain and squat without cracking knees.

 

[Pacman]

Regardless of the role of TRT in my joint pain, I was told that deca (nandrolone) really helps with joints and I've managed to procure some.

I doubt that TRT itself caused the joint pain, even with crashed E levels (unless you kept your E levels low for an extended period of time).

Even people who go on cycles and report joint pain, it's a lot more related to HOW they are training rather than what they are taking (although what they are taking can enable to train more intensely than otherwise, but you get my point, I am saying it doesn't typically directly cause joint pain).

In my observation of joint pain in myself and others (assuming it is not caused by some inherent condition), is typically due to (mostly):

1) Intensity way too high
2) Poor form while lifting (could be caused by #1)
3) Under recovery

The above 3 points are a whole separate huge discussion by themselves, but if I could summarize it in a few distinct oversimplified (but practical + applicable) points, here goes:

1) Go full ROM as much as you can tolerate (i.e. if you lose form or control and/or experience acute joint pain during the exercise past a certain ROM, don't go past that ROM. No need to squat past 90 if you can't handle it, no matter what the gym bros say). Not only is this easier on the joints themselves (because going full ROM under control basically guarantees you that it isn't too heavy of a weight), but there is major benefit to muscle development from weighted stretches (here is an amazing video on that topic).

Tolerance is the name of the game here. We are all built different so do not assume that full ROM is always the best option. It's just the best default option as far as joint health and safety goes (to the point you can tolerate it).

2) Control those eccentrics. Whatever speed you concentrically load the weight, as a general rule of thumb if your main priority is joint health and safety, the eccentric portion should be at least 50% slower. So if lat pulldowns are 1-1.5 seconds down (concentric) aim for 2-3 seconds up (eccentric).

As far as injury prevention goes, slow controlled eccentrics will greatly reduce injury occurrence.

Slow eccentrics induce a nice amount of muscle damage as well which contribute to hypertrophy. Although the exact degree it does is a topic of discussion, but for me personally I find that when I focus on muscle damage over a meso cycle it greatly increases muscle size over meso cycles in which I do not focus on that.

Note: "eccentrics" = the movement you resist that would happen if you allowed gravity to work by itself. (On a squat that is the way down, on a lat pulldown that's the way up...)

3) Recovery. This one's a little harder to define, and it really depends on how you feel and what your program is, but Dr. Mike from RP has several good videos on this.

I've heard that some of the sides include "deca dick" and prostate irritation.

This could definitely happen, moreso on higher doses though.

Curious about other people's experiences with Deca both in terms of effectiveness and sides.

It's effective for joint pain. But it made me feel very depressed. I actually wrote about my experience on it here.

 

[Fortunate]

I doubt that TRT itself caused the joint pain, even with crashed E levels (unless you kept your E levels low for an extended period of time).

Even people who go on cycles and report joint pain, it's a lot more related to HOW they are training rather than what they are taking (although what they are taking can enable to train more intensely than otherwise, but you get my point, I am saying it doesn't typically directly cause joint pain).

In my observation of joint pain in myself and others (assuming it is not caused by some inherent condition), is typically due to (mostly):

1) Intensity way too high
2) Poor form while lifting (could be caused by #1)
3) Under recovery

The above 3 points are a whole separate huge discussion by themselves, but if I could summarize it in a few distinct oversimplified (but practical + applicable) points, here goes:

1) Go full ROM as much as you can tolerate (i.e. if you lose form or control and/or experience acute joint pain during the exercise past a certain ROM, don't go past that ROM. No need to squat past 90 if you can't handle it, no matter what the gym bros say). Not only is this easier on the joints themselves (because going full ROM under control basically guarantees you that it isn't too heavy of a weight), but there is major benefit to muscle development from weighted stretches (here is an amazing video on that topic).

Tolerance is the name of the game here. We are all built different so do not assume that full ROM is always the best option. It's just the best default option as far as joint health and safety goes (to the point you can tolerate it).

2) Control those eccentrics. Whatever speed you concentrically load the weight, as a general rule of thumb if your main priority is joint health and safety, the eccentric portion should be at least 50% slower. So if lat pulldowns are 1-1.5 seconds down (concentric) aim for 2-3 seconds up (eccentric).

As far as injury prevention goes, slow controlled eccentrics will greatly reduce injury occurrence.

Slow eccentrics induce a nice amount of muscle damage as well which contribute to hypertrophy. Although the exact degree it does is a topic of discussion, but for me personally I find that when I focus on muscle damage over a meso cycle it greatly increases muscle size over meso cycles in which I do not focus on that.

Note: "eccentrics" = the movement you resist that would happen if you allowed gravity to work by itself. (On a squat that is the way down, on a lat pulldown that's the way up...)

3) Recovery. This one's a little harder to define, and it really depends on how you feel and what your program is, but Dr. Mike from RP has several good videos on this.


This could definitely happen, moreso on higher doses though.


It's effective for joint pain. But it made me feel very depressed. I actually wrote about my experience on it here.

I have tried nandrolone on a few occasions, primarily to limit downstream testosterone metabolites. Each time, I regret it. While on it, I feel like I have a dissociative disorder - like someone else is co-habitating my brain with me. I know, that sounds kinda nuts. I also feel an uncomfortable cardiac stimulation from it - not necessarily that the heart is pounding harder, but it's more "excitable".

Over the last 4-5 months, I have experienced bouts of anxiety and tachycardia that last for an 1-2 hours at a very predictable time of day - around 5PM. When wife saw me checking my Apple Watch in church, with my heart rate in the 90's recently, I realized this episodes may the the same phenomenon I described here. I previously blamed this on CoQ10, but, I am no longer on it, so I am rethinking things. The episodes can occur on a day on which I did not use nandrolone, but they tend to occur during a time period in which I recently used nandrolone. I am still troubleshooting, but I have enough suspicion about nandrolone to stay away from it (once again).

 

[tareload]

know, that sounds kinda nuts. I also feel an uncomfortable cardiac stimulation from it

Not nuts at all.

Read This Before Considering Nandrolone or Any AAS

Usually I’d just leave this info “buried” in the other thread but it’s important enough to daylight it on the main page. Nandrolone based “HRT” and nandrolone use for joint/pain relief continues to garner much discussion and attention and it’s picking up. Please care for yourself. Your long...

forums.t-nation.com

 

[Fortunate]

Not nuts at all.

Read This Before Considering Nandrolone or Any AAS

Usually I’d just leave this info “buried” in the other thread but it’s important enough to daylight it on the main page. Nandrolone based “HRT” and nandrolone use for joint/pain relief continues to garner much discussion and attention and it’s picking up. Please care for yourself. Your long...

forums.t-nation.com

The part that made me sounds nuts was the someone-is-in-my-brain part. I appreciate your re-posting that other thread. I have perused it before, but just read it closer. Wow. I think the rat article that shows that nandrolone use leads to cardiac over stimulation may be exactly what is going on.

Hormones can be hard because they metabolize and/or linger in the body for a while, which can make it hard to correlate a subjective experience to a specific substance or dose on a given day or week. In my case, the bouts of tachycardia don't necessarily occur on a day on which I used nandrolone. However, I am pretty sure there is a pattern in which the bouts occur in a time frame during which I recently used nandrolone. They generally occur 10-12 hours after I inject a morning dose of enanthate (usually around 10mg). Maybe the already circulating nandrolone is sensitizing my beta adrenergic cardiac receptors such that when I reach a peak testosterone levels from the morning injection, my heart freaks out. In other words, it may not be the relatively small enanthate injection from that morning, but the fact that I have nandrolone in my system, that pushes me over the edge.

And, I am using tiny doses of everything: usually 10mg of a 2:1 test to nandrolone blend. That's a mere 3.33 mg of nandrolone and 6.67 mg of testosterone at a time.

This is eye opening if it's true.

 

[tareload]

The part that made me sounds nuts was the someone-is-in-my-brain part. I appreciate your re-posting that other thread. I have perused it before, but just read it closer. Wow. I think the rat article that shows that nandrolone use leads to cardiac over stimulation may be exactly what is going on.

Hormones can be hard because they metabolize and/or linger in the body for a while, which can make it hard to correlate a subjective experience to a specific substance or dose on a given day or week. In my case, the bouts of tachycardia don't necessarily occur on a day on which I used nandrolone. However, I am pretty sure there is a pattern in which the bouts occur in a time frame during which I recently used nandrolone. They generally occur 10-12 hours after I inject a morning dose of enanthate (usually around 10mg). Maybe the already circulating nandrolone is sensitizing my beta adrenergic cardiac receptors such that when I reach a peak testosterone levels from the morning injection, my heart freaks out. In other words, it may not be the relatively small enanthate injection from that morning, but the fact that I have nandrolone in my system, that pushes me over the edge.

And, I am using tiny doses of everything: usually 10mg of a 2:1 test to nandrolone blend. That's a mere 3.33 mg of nandrolone and 6.67 mg of testosterone at a time.

This is eye opening if it's true.

I have also experienced the dissociative issue along with heart symptoms on nandrolone with test.


If you want, track your pulse pressure on various protocols but I like your plan to leave the nandrolone alone. Some of us with preexisting arythmmia or overly sensitive autonomic response could be playing with fire. Especially with the known unknown of COVID effects.

 

[Fortunate]

I have also experienced the dissociative issue along with heart symptoms on nandrolone with test.


If you want, track your pulse pressure on various protocols but I like your plan to leave the nandrolone alone. Some of us with preexisting arythmmia or overly sensitive autonomic response could be playing with fire. Especially with the known unknown of COVID effects.

Yep. I just looked back at my notes. I have had lots of bouts anxiety and cardiac overstimulation with and without recent nandrolone use. So, I suspect that I have significant autonomic sensitivity. My guess is that I likely react to most androgens this way, but I still strongly suspect that nandrolone is a particularly bad player. It is also possible that the nandrolone in my system is lingering for months, not weeks, and could still be the primary reason I am getting these bouts.

No more nandrolone for me.

 

[Pacman]

I have tried nandrolone on a few occasions, primarily to limit downstream testosterone metabolites.

Just to clarify, what does this mean? Are you referring to estrogen and/or the effects on the prostate from testosterone? What problem were you trying to solve?

While on it, I feel like I have a dissociative disorder - like someone else is co-habitating my brain with me. I know, that sounds kinda nuts.

This doesn't sound nuts at all. It definitely affects the psychological system, but if you feel it to this extreme, it looks like a clear sign to avoid it.

Here is a study I found on nandrolone's effect on the central nervous system: The Impact of Nandrolone Decanoate on the Central Nervous System

And, I am using tiny doses of everything: usually 10mg of a 2:1 test to nandrolone blend. That's a mere 3.33 mg of nandrolone and 6.67 mg of testosterone at a time.

Wow that is a tiny amount, barely over 20 mg a week. If you experience severe side effects just from that tiny dose, yeah this drug isn't for you.

 

[Fortunate]

Just to clarify, what does this mean? Are you referring to estrogen and/or the effects on the prostate from testosterone? What problem were you trying to solve?

This doesn't sound nuts at all. It definitely affects the psychological system, but if you feel it to this extreme, it looks like a clear sign to avoid it.

Here is a study I found on nandrolone's effect on the central nervous system: The Impact of Nandrolone Decanoate on the Central Nervous System


Wow that is a tiny amount, barely over 20 mg a week. If you experience severe side effects just from that tiny dose, yeah this drug isn't for you.

My goal was primarily to minimize estrogen formation. I have villainized a number of things throughout my struggles, but at this point, I’m not sure that estrogen is the bad actor.

Yes, the dosages are tiny and apparently I’m very sensitive. Definitely not the drug for me.

 

[madman]

I have used Nandrolone for several years now along with my TRT and I’ve posted my results within this forum. First of all, I believe you’re probably going to need at least 100 mg to feel the effects. At least initially. From my experience a hundred milligrams a week will provide a nice overall reduction in inflammation and pain across your entire body. You will also notice some muscle mass increases assuming you lift weights. You can take it from there. You can try it for three months and then just cycle off or stay on longer term or adjust your dose up and down. My current protocol has been taking about 120 mg a week for the last six months. Recently I just lowered it to 40 mg just to see how low I could go and I am doing OK but the pain is certainly coming back.

You also have to realize that nandrolone does not cure any joint issues. It only reduces the inflammation, swelling and pain. This is a huge blessing but you have to be careful. Twice when I started lowering my dose after running it for several months I wound up getting injured because I kept my current weight lifting protocol. While on the Nandrolone, I got bigger and stronger and started lifting heavier weights. It was no problem and in fact I felt better than ever. But when I cycled down and lowered the dose -keeping weights about the same -I wound up stressing my old injuries again. So just remember to lower your intensity because you won’t have the nandrolone benefit if you come off. Other than that I wound highly recommend it’s use. Allowed me to do things I haven’t been able to do in a decade or more – like walk up and down stairs without pain, lift weights with a Barbell without neck and shoulder pain and squat without cracking knees.

First of all, I believe you’re probably going to need at least 100 mg to feel the effects. At least initially. From my experience a hundred milligrams a week will provide a nice overall reduction in inflammation and pain across your entire body. You will also notice some muscle mass increases assuming you lift weights.

No need for one to jump in at 100 mg/week off the hop!

Gains in muscle mass/strength are going to be minor on such doses.

Pointless to even jump on ND if one still trains like an idiot.

Bound to get injured sooner or later especially if you already have underlying tendon/joint issues.

Becomes even more critical for older individuals.

The key is to train smarter.

Once you tear a tendon whether <50% or a severe partial/full it will never be the same again even with surgery.

You will always be more prone to reinjuring it!

Once you wear down cartilage it never grows back.

Again no amount of ND/AAS let alone GH is going to prevent damage to joints/ligaments/tendons from overuse/repetitive heavy lifting long-term.

Not a f**king chance!

As I stated previously in post #2


Important points to keep in mind:

* worn out/degenerative cartilage never grows back

* individual tendon architecture is exquisitely tuned for optimal function, and scar-like healing generally fails to return to its pre-injury structure

 

[JimGainz]

First of all, I believe you’re probably going to need at least 100 mg to feel the effects. At least initially. From my experience a hundred milligrams a week will provide a nice overall reduction in inflammation and pain across your entire body. You will also notice some muscle mass increases assuming you lift weights.

No need for one to jump in at 100 mg/week off the hop!

Gains in muscle mass/strength are going to be minor on such doses.

Pointless to even jump on ND if one still trains like an idiot.

Bound to get injured sooner or later especially if you already have underlying tendon/joint issues.

Becomes even more critical for older individuals.

The key is to train smarter.

Once you tear a tendon whether <50% or a severe partial/full it will never be the same again even with surgery.

You will always be more prone to reinjuring it!

Once you wear down cartilage it never grows back.

Again no amount of ND/AAS let alone GH is going to prevent damage to joints/ligaments/tendons from overuse/repetitive heavy lifting long-term.

Not a f**king chance!

As I stated previously in post #2


Important points to keep in mind:

* worn out/degenerative cartilage never grows back

* individual tendon architecture is exquisitely tuned for optimal function, and scar-like healing generally fails to return to its pre-injury structure

I agree with everything you said except that I can’t tell if you are saying to avoid nandrolone and just train smarter. I mentioned that it does not heal a joint - but the pain reduction can be life changing for some people. Also, 100mg /week does provide a nice boost in mass and strength - very noticeable if one trains correctly.

 

[Gman86]

I agree with everything you said except that I can’t tell if you are saying to avoid nandrolone and just train smarter. I mentioned that it does not heal a joint - but the pain reduction can be life changing for some people. Also, 100mg /week does provide a nice boost in mass and strength - very noticeable if one trains correctly.

I think the last time u talked about ur protocol u mentioned that u were trying as low as 40mg of deca per week, correct? How’d that end up going? U still on that dose?