Combining cream and injection

[Charliebizz]

I have a weird experience to share. So cream to the scrotum has always boosted my libido and erections. However on cream only I never felt great. I thought my levels were too high to be honest on 2 clicks am and two pm. i never made it to lab work though. Recently I tried 1 click am and 1 pm. Again my erections and libido were great. But felt kind of low t. This time I made it long enough to pull labs. And 5 hours after application My levels were low tt was 280 and free t was 64 on quest. So now I’m back on injections. 100mg per week Split 2x a week. And 50mg of cream in the morning. Only going into second week. But libido is still really good. Erections aren’t as good but didn’t fall off too bad. I just find it so strange that I had fantastic libido and erections and my levels were shit. And I know the cream is good because 2 clicks to thighs had me at 700 8 hours after application.

 

[eli]

I have a weird experience to share. So cream to the scrotum has always boosted my libido and erections. However on cream only I never felt great. I thought my levels were too high to be honest on 2 clicks am and two pm. i never made it to lab work though. Recently I tried 1 click am and 1 pm. Again my erections and libido were great. But felt kind of low t. This time I made it long enough to pull labs. And 5 hours after application My levels were low tt was 280 and free t was 64 on quest. So now I’m back on injections. 100mg per week Split 2x a week. And 50mg of cream in the morning. Only going into second week. But libido is still really good. Erections aren’t as good but didn’t fall off too bad. I just find it so strange that I had fantastic libido and erections and my levels were shit. And I know the cream is good because 2 clicks to thighs had me at 700 8 hours after application.

What's your cream's strength?
When you did 2 clicks am and 2 clicks pm, how long did you wait to see how you feel? It takes 8 weeks for body to adjust to new levels

 

[Charliebizz]

What's your cream's strength?
When you did 2 clicks am and 2 clicks pm, how long did you wait to see how you feel? It takes 8 weeks for body to adjust to new levels

I only made it 2-3 weeks on 2 and 2 on scrotum. I just felt bad. I admit I have ptsd from my test cyp experience. Back in the beginning of trt journey Test cyp would crush my cortisol. And boy did I feel it. I confirmed multiple times with serum and saliva. Enanthate doesnt move my cortisol. And I feel ok on it. So when I was on 2 and 2 I started to feel some of those low cortisol type symptoms and freaked out. Honestly it could have gotten better. But I got freaked out. I also can’t imagine doing 2 clicks am and pm for the rest of my life. I’m using 200mg/ml cream from empower.

 

[eli]

I only made it 2-3 weeks on 2 and 2 on scrotum. I just felt bad. I admit I have ptsd from my test cyp experience. Back in the beginning of trt journey Test cyp would crush my cortisol. And boy did I feel it. I confirmed multiple times with serum and saliva. Enanthate doesnt move my cortisol. And I feel ok on it. So when I was on 2 and 2 I started to feel some of those low cortisol type symptoms and freaked out. Honestly it could have gotten better. But I got freaked out. I also can’t imagine doing 2 clicks am and pm for the rest of my life. I’m using 200mg/ml cream from empower.

Well yea, everyone feels like hell for a few weeks. It's horrible, mine starts at week 2 lasts til week 4 and then things start to get better. By week 8-10 I know exactly

Shit sleep, zero motivation, weak, irritable,

 

[Charliebizz]

Well yea, everyone feels like hell for a few weeks. It's horrible, mine starts at week 2 lasts til week 4 and then things start to get better. By week 8-10 I know exactly

Shit sleep, zero motivation, weak, irritable,

I didn’t get that feeling at all with enanthate. That’s why I kinda freaked out. I talked to a few guys that made the switch from injections to cream seamlessly. nothing Ever that easy for me lol

 

[S1W]

I only made it 2-3 weeks on 2 and 2 on scrotum. I just felt bad. I admit I have ptsd from my test cyp experience. Back in the beginning of trt journey Test cyp would crush my cortisol. And boy did I feel it. I confirmed multiple times with serum and saliva. Enanthate doesnt move my cortisol. And I feel ok on it. So when I was on 2 and 2 I started to feel some of those low cortisol type symptoms and freaked out. Honestly it could have gotten better. But I got freaked out. I also can’t imagine doing 2 clicks am and pm for the rest of my life. I’m using 200mg/ml cream from empower.

Appreciate you sharing this insight regarding cortisol/enanthate.

I also notice that I feel better on enanthate than cypionate, but never really understood why. A lot of guys say they can use enanthate/cypionate interchangeably and not notice any difference…not the case for me.

 

[madman]

Appreciate you sharing this insight regarding cortisol/enanthate.

I also notice that I feel better on enanthate than cypionate, but never really understood why. A lot of guys say they can use enanthate/cypionate interchangeably and not notice any difference…not the case for me.

Could be numerous reasons.

The ester used is not going to have any impact on cortisol as it is cleaved as soon as it hits the bloodstream!

 

[madman]

Appreciate you sharing this insight regarding cortisol/enanthate.

I also notice that I feel better on enanthate than cypionate, but never really understood why. A lot of guys say they can use enanthate/cypionate interchangeably and not notice any difference…not the case for me.

The purpose of the ester is to control the release rate of the steroid from the oily depot and it is cleaved as soon as it hits the bloodstream releasing free testosterone.

TU/TC/TE/TP (oily depot)----->ester cleaved (ECF)----->FREE TESTOSTERONE (blood)​

​

Androgen Physiology, Pharmacology, Use and Misuse - Endotext - NCBI Bookshelf

Injectable Testosterone​

The most widely used testosterone formulation for many decades has been an intramuscular injection of testosterone esters (figure 5), formed by 17β-esterification of testosterone with fatty acids of various aliphatic and/or aromatic chain lengths, injected in a vegetable oil vehicle (653). This depot product relies on retarded release of the testosterone ester from the oil vehicle injection depot because esters undergo rapid hydrolysis by ubiquitous esterases to liberate free testosterone into circulation. The pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of androgen esters are therefore primarily determined by ester side-chain length, the volume of the oil vehicle, and the site of injection via hydrophobic physicochemical partitioning of the androgen ester between the hydrophobic oil vehicle and the aqueous extracellular fluid (654).

FIGURE 5.​

Schematic overview of the pharmacology of testosterone esters. Testosterone is esterified through the 17 β hydroxyl group with fatty acid esters of different aliphatic or other chain lengths which is a biologically inactive pro-drug. The esterified testosterone in an oil vehicle is injected deeply into a muscle forming a local drug depot from which the testosterone ester is released at a slow rate determined by its Physico-chemical partitioning according to the testosterone ester’s hydrophobicity. Once the testosterone ester exits the depot and enters the extracellular fluids, it is rapidly hydrolyzed by ubiquitous non-specific esterases thereby releasing the testosterone into the general circulation.

 

[Charliebizz]

Could be numerous reasons.

The ester used is not going to have any impact on cortisol as it is cleaved as soon as it hits the bloodstream!

I know it sounds insane. And I have no science to back it up. Other than I feel absolutely awful on cyp and it the only time I ever had rock bottom cortisol numbers was when I was on cyp. I tested a few times blood and saliva. Off trt and on enanthate my cortisol numbers are ok. I’ve also tried cyp in different carrier oils and it doesn’t matter. I still feel awful on it.

 

[Willyt]

When combining cream with injections on daily basis, has anyone noticed a stacking effect with the cream where the T levels start to creep higher and higher over time?

When adding cream, I always seem to feel good the first two days, but then get that anxious feeling of too much T by day 3 or 4 and have to back off the cream to reset. I suppose the DHT could have something to do with that as well.

I had always thought that cream was fast moving and mostly out of your system 24 hours later.

 

[Fortunate]

When combining cream with injections on daily basis, has anyone noticed a stacking effect with the cream where the T levels start to creep higher and higher over time?

When adding cream, I always seem to feel good the first two days, but then get that anxious feeling of too much T by day 3 or 4 and have to back off the cream to reset. I suppose the DHT could have something to do with that as well.

I had always thought that cream was fast moving and mostly out of your system 24 hours later.

View attachment 28441

I personally believe that cream alone does what you describe. I think day one's dose is still around at the time of day two dose application.

I am currently trialing a fairly low dose cream protocol. Hopefully, I won't prove myself correct. I'll post back with some feedback.

 

[Charliebizz]

I personally believe that cream alone does what you describe. I think day one's dose is still around at the time of day two dose application.

I am currently trialing a fairly low dose cream protocol. Hopefully, I won't prove myself correct. I'll post back with some feedback.

I’m also back on cream. Switched to hydrogel base starting yesterday. Going all in and trying 2clicks am 2 pm. Bunch of guys I talked to say the first few weeks can be rough. As was for me in the past. But I have to see it through. Cause I just can’t feel great on injections.

 

[eli]

When combining cream with injections on daily basis, has anyone noticed a stacking effect with the cream where the T levels start to creep higher and higher over time?

When adding cream, I always seem to feel good the first two days, but then get that anxious feeling of too much T by day 3 or 4 and have to back off the cream to reset. I suppose the DHT could have something to do with that as well.

I had always thought that cream was fast moving and mostly out of your system 24 hours later.

View attachment 28441

I get that anxiety too, it only lasts maximum a week and it'll go away

 

[Willyt]

I get that anxiety too, it only lasts maximum a week and it'll go away

Do you only get that feeling when you increased cream dose?

If there is a stacking effect of T on cream, I suppose it levels off at some point.

 

[Charliebizz]

I get that anxiety too, it only lasts maximum a week and it'll go away

Do you get any fatigue when starting cream. My libido and erections are so much better on cream. But I have some fatigue issues going on.

what’s crazy is the regular hrt base from empower (1 click am one pm on scrotum) I only hit 280tt 5 hours after app. But it was expired for a few months. So got a new batch of atrevis base gonna do 2 am 2 pm. And see but day 2 and I feel the same as on the other cream.

 

[eli]

Do you get any fatigue when starting cream. My libido and erections are so much better on cream. But I have some fatigue issues going on.

what’s crazy is the regular hrt base from empower (1 click am one pm on scrotum) I only hit 280tt 5 hours after app. But it was expired for a few months. So got a new batch of atrevis base gonna do 2 am 2 pm. And see but day 2 and I feel the same as on the other cream.

Yea I feel like crap for a couple weeks before things start to SLOWLY go back to really good

 

[Charliebizz]

Yea I feel like crap for a couple weeks before things start to SLOWLY go back to really good

My libido and erections are much better right away though. It’s so strange.

 

[eli]

My libido and erections are much better right away though. It’s so strange.

It's the only thing that works for my sex drive and erections too... Injections do nothing

 

[Charliebizz]

It's the only thing that works for my sex drive and erections too... Injections do nothing

I just find it weird that my libido and erections immediately get better but I have more fatigue. I need to stop overthinking it. But I have ptsd from how bad I used to feel so I’m scared to go backward lol

 

[45ACP]

I'm seeing lots of guys are really liking doing this. They are typically lowering their injection dosage and doing 50mgs of cream in the morning. Anyone here doing this with good results and will Defy be agreeable to this approach?

I use Defy as well
After working injectables only form the beginning and after about 10 months I found what works best for me

I now believe that NO TRT therapy can ever replicate how I was in my 20's and early 30's
To believe that is foolish

At 64 now and an avid fitness enthusiast (weight training) for decades now...

100 mg Testosterone Cipionate every 10 days when not training

200 mg Testosterone Cipionate every 10 days when training

Also generic Viagra from Europe (150 mg tabs) not available here in USA....when I need to "make things happen" lol!