Ceasing TRT Cold Turkey After Three Years - Restart Log

[xqfq]

I had two blood tests done, the second of which was whilst I was taking 25mg pregnenolone daily.

First reading came back at 0.17, and the second came back at 0.15 (0.2 - 1.2) ng/ml.

Thanks for sharing! Do you know when those were taken? I’d like to compare them to your levels in that awesome table you posted! Also, I take it you never measured progesterone off of TRT?

 

[PhantomFear]

I don’t I’m afraid. It was about 6-7 months ago, so I’m between the first and second set of bloods from the chart, but that’s only a rough estimate.

 

[PhantomFear]

Had some more bloods done to investigate the hypo symptoms and hair/eyebrow loss:

Folate: 19.3 (>3.89) ug/L
B12: 180 (37.5 - 188) pmol/L
Vitamin D: 70.7 (50 - 175) nmol/L

Zinc: 16.39 (11.1 - 19.5) umol/L
Magnesium: 0.84 (0.7 - 1) nmol/L
CRP-HS: 0.33 (<5) mg/L

Ferritin: 46.4 (30 - 400) ug/L

Total Cholesterol: 3.58 (0 - 5) mmol/L
LDL: 1.65 (<3) mmol/L
HDL: 1.4 (>1) mmol/L
Triglycerides: 1.16 (<1.7) mmol/L

All look good so far. Should be getting TSH, fT3 and fT4 bloods done next week, then I’ll see where to go from there.

Does anyone have any suggestions for blood markers to investigate for my issues? I’m going to look into autoimmunity and underlying infections, but apart from that I can think of what else I can look into.

 

[lowtdunce]

Don't want to draw any unwarranted conclusions but sure looks like as E2 is coming down libido is improving and anxiety getting better?

 

[PhantomFear]

Don't want to draw any unwarranted conclusions but sure looks like as E2 is coming down libido is improving and anxiety getting better?

I thought the same thing. I was extremely surprised to see my natural e2 hover around 75, as whenever it dropped below 100 on TRT my joints started to hurt really badl, but at the minute they feel fine.

What’s also odd is that whenever my T was around 20 on TRT e2 was always up near 150 if I wasn’t on an AI.

 

[xqfq]

Had some more bloods done to investigate the hypo symptoms and hair/eyebrow loss:

Folate: 19.3 (>3.89) ug/L
B12: 180 (37.5 - 188) pmol/L
Vitamin D: 70.7 (50 - 175) nmol/L

Zinc: 16.39 (11.1 - 19.5) umol/L
Magnesium: 0.84 (0.7 - 1) nmol/L
CRP-HS: 0.33 (<5) mg/L

Ferritin: 46.4 (30 - 400) ug/L

Total Cholesterol: 3.58 (0 - 5) mmol/L
LDL: 1.65 (<3) mmol/L
HDL: 1.4 (>1) mmol/L
Triglycerides: 1.16 (<1.7) mmol/L

All look good so far. Should be getting TSH, fT3 and fT4 bloods done next week, then I’ll see where to go from there.

Does anyone have any suggestions for blood markers to investigate for my issues? I’m going to look into autoimmunity and underlying infections, but apart from that I can think of what else I can look into.

I would love it if you measured your now-off-TRT progesterone! I’ll be responding in more detail later, but I think it could have been related to many of the symptoms you experienced on TRT. If it’s higher off TRT then we have even more clues. Obviously this doesn’t matter for you right now, but if you ever go back on TRT it could make all the difference in the world.

 

[PhantomFear]

Hello everyone, back with another update. I’m not doing too well at the moment unfortunately. Erections are achievable but only feel about 70-80%, libido is down, overall energy is down.

Surprisingly, my hair has started to thin at a much, much faster rate since coming off of TRT, and my eyebrows are also thinning too.

Here is my most recent blood work:

Serum testosterone level 18 nmol/L [9.0 - 34.7]
Serum TSH 2.7 [0.4 - 4.2]

Serum alanine aminotransferase level 23 iu/L [2.0 - 53.0]
Serum bilirubin level 11 umol/L [< 21.0]

Serum creatine kinase level 220 iu/L [40.0 - 320.0]
Plasma C-reactive protein level < 5 mg/L [< 10.0]

Serum albumin level 52 g/L [35.0 - 50.0]
Serum adjusted calcium concentration 2.21 mmol/L [2.2 - 2.6]
Serum inorganic phosphate level 1.15 mmol/L [0.8 - 1.5]
Serum alkaline phosphatase level 125 iu/L [30.0 - 130.0]

Serum vitamin D level 74 nmol/L
Serum vitamin B12 level 490 ng/L [220.0 - 700.0]
Serum folate level 12.0 ug/L [2.6 - 17.3]
Serum ferritin level 58 ug/L [23.0 - 540.0]

I had those bloods done through my GP, and due to the financial strain the NHS is undergoing, they refused to test the usual E2, LH/FSH, Prolactin etc. I’m a university / college student and have run out of money, so I can’t get my own bloods for another month or so.

I’m not really sure where to go from here. It’s been three months now, so it seems my leveks have stabilised around 18 nmol/L +/- 2. Whilst 500 ng/dL isn’t “optimal”, I believe it is adequate for normal function, and therefore something else must be causing my issues.

Does anyone have any ideas as to where I can go or what I can investigate now? There’s clearly something wrong with me that’s resulting in all of these issues, but I’m truly at a loss as to what. Mentally I feel fine, so I don’t this is a depression / anxiety issue.

I’m still feeling very cold all the time - especially my hands and feet. Energy levels are low, erections and libido are sometimes good, sometimes completely absent. Hair and eyebrow loss is much worse.

Any advice / thoughts would be much appreciated.

 

[Wolverine]

Hello everyone, back with another update. I’m not doing too well at the moment unfortunately. Erections are achievable but only feel about 70-80%, libido is down, overall energy is down.

Surprisingly, my hair has started to thin at a much, much faster rate since coming off of TRT, and my eyebrows are also thinning too.

Here is my most recent blood work:

Serum testosterone level 18 nmol/L [9.0 - 34.7]
Serum TSH 2.7 [0.4 - 4.2]

Serum alanine aminotransferase level 23 iu/L [2.0 - 53.0]
Serum bilirubin level 11 umol/L [< 21.0]

Serum creatine kinase level 220 iu/L [40.0 - 320.0]
Plasma C-reactive protein level < 5 mg/L [< 10.0]

Serum albumin level 52 g/L [35.0 - 50.0]
Serum adjusted calcium concentration 2.21 mmol/L [2.2 - 2.6]
Serum inorganic phosphate level 1.15 mmol/L [0.8 - 1.5]
Serum alkaline phosphatase level 125 iu/L [30.0 - 130.0]

Serum vitamin D level 74 nmol/L
Serum vitamin B12 level 490 ng/L [220.0 - 700.0]
Serum folate level 12.0 ug/L [2.6 - 17.3]
Serum ferritin level 58 ug/L [23.0 - 540.0]

I had those bloods done through my GP, and due to the financial strain the NHS is undergoing, they refused to test the usual E2, LH/FSH, Prolactin etc. I’m a university / college student and have run out of money, so I can’t get my own bloods for another month or so.

I’m not really sure where to go from here. It’s been three months now, so it seems my leveks have stabilised around 18 nmol/L +/- 2. Whilst 500 ng/dL isn’t “optimal”, I believe it is adequate for normal function, and therefore something else must be causing my issues.

Does anyone have any ideas as to where I can go or what I can investigate now? There’s clearly something wrong with me that’s resulting in all of these issues, but I’m truly at a loss as to what. Mentally I feel fine, so I don’t this is a depression / anxiety issue.

I’m still feeling very cold all the time - especially my hands and feet. Energy levels are low, erections and libido are sometimes good, sometimes completely absent. Hair and eyebrow loss is much worse.

Any advice / thoughts would be much appreciated.

Your ferritin looks on the low side and your TSH looks on the high side. Would be nice if you had serum iron and FT3 and FT4 results. Without those, my guess would be you need iron and thyroid supplements.

 

[Systemlord]

A TT of 500 ng/dL and SHBG at in the 40's, your FT is on the lower end. When using the Tru-T calculator your FT is 15.68 ng/dL (16-31) and is very inadequate.

TSH only is not going to tell you much of anything, like how much thyroid hormone is making it into the cells.

 

[PhantomFear]

Hello everyone, just dropping by with another update.

Things have rapidly declined over the past few weeks. My libido has gone, erections are difficult, energy levels are zero, I have doms after every workout, I'm always freezing cold and my motivation / desire for life in genreal has disapeared. I got some bloods done to see what was going on, and the results are disapointing:

Oestradiol 71.2 pmol/L (Range: 41 - 159)
Testosterone 12.6 nmol/L (Range: 8.64 - 29)
SHBG 29.4 nmol/L (Range: 18.3 - 54.1)
Free Testosterone - Calc. 0.263 nmol/L (Range: 0.2 - 0.62)
Prolactin 111 mU/L (Range: 86 - 324)
FSH 1.59 IU/L (Range: 1.5 - 12.4)
LH 5.18 IU/L (Range: 1.7 - 8.6)

TSH 1.83 mIU/L (Range: 0.27 - 4.2)
Free T3 6.09 pmol/L (Range: 3.1 - 6.8)
Free Thyroxine 15.500 pmol/L (Range: 12 - 22)

ALP 110 IU/L (Range: < 130)
ALT 28.2 IU/L (Range: < 50)
GGT 24 IU/L (Range: 10 - 71)
HbA1c 37.60 mmol/mol (Range: 20 - 42)
Ferritin 107 ug/L (Range: 30 - 400)

Not reallly sure where to go from here. 12.6 nmol/L at 22 years old is rather low, and is a decent bit below my pre-TRT levels. With that said, TRT did nothing to improve the issues menioned above apart from increasing recovery from workouts.

Lifestyle wise things haven't been great recently - my sleep has been poor, and stress levels are high due to a recent breakup and the intensity of my final year at university. I'm not sure if this could be the cause of the drop, but I'm going to move towards reducing overall life stress to see if it helps.

Any insight / advice is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[gaz7718]

Bloods look kinda ok given your position. When you explain your wider life challenges I’d suggest it’s the mental stress and worry that’s the major issue here. But that’s purely from trying to put myself in your shoes and how life can drain the energy right out from you if your outlook just seems a bit bleak. Uni pressure and relationship issues are big challenges

 

[Gman86]

These labs were while off TRT correct?

Are you taking anything for your thyroid? Your free T3 looks great.

 

[PhantomFear]

Bloods look kinda ok given your position. When you explain your wider life challenges I’d suggest it’s the mental stress and worry that’s the major issue here. But that’s purely from trying to put myself in your shoes and how life can drain the energy right out from you if your outlook just seems a bit bleak. Uni pressure and relationship issues are big challenges

I agree that most of my issues are mental stressors resulting in unwanted hormonal responses - namely elevated cortisol reducing my T. I'm not really sure how I can fix these issues though.

 

[PhantomFear]

These labs were while off TRT correct?

Are you taking anything for your thyroid? Your free T3 looks great.

Correct. I am not taking anything for thyroid, but I am in a calorie surplus at the minute so food is plentyful - I assume that's why fT3 is high.

What I don't understand is that I still have all of the sympotms of hypothyroidsm. I've read cortisol is crucial for thyroid hormone to enter the cell from serum, so I'm wondering if my high levels of stress are impairing thyroid uptake, so although adequate thyroid is present, hypo sympomts still reside.

All speculation, however. I'm trying not to overthink things too much.

 

[gaz7718]

Sorry if this sounds a bit left field but some things are not about the drugs or supplements but about finding balance, purpose and a sense of happiness in your life. Maybe there’s answers that are on the inside rather than the outside.

 

[xqfq]

I don’t have any immediate advice, but it’s worth noting that using the tru-t.org calculator, your current free T and your pre-TRT free T is more or less identical. I know you say your levels are considerably lower than before, but that might not be the case. It looks like it could be within striking distance.

If I were to stop TRT, the one supplement I would continue to use is high dose magnesium throughout the day. It’s helped me in so many ways. Something to think about if you haven’t already.

Before I was on TRT, low dose (6.25mg twice a day) oral DHEA helped me, too. Improved my mood and libido.

 

[Gman86]

Correct. I am not taking anything for thyroid, but I am in a calorie surplus at the minute so food is plentyful - I assume that's why fT3 is high.

What I don't understand is that I still have all of the sympotms of hypothyroidsm. I've read cortisol is crucial for thyroid hormone to enter the cell from serum, so I'm wondering if my high levels of stress are impairing thyroid uptake, so although adequate thyroid is present, hypo sympomts still reside.

All speculation, however. I'm trying not to overthink things too much.

Low testosterone and low thyroid mimic eachother quite a bit. Could some of the low thyroid symptoms be due to your low testosterone?

 

[Gman86]

I don’t have any immediate advice, but it’s worth noting that using the tru-t.org calculator, your current free T and your pre-TRT free T is more or less identical. I know you say your levels are considerably lower than before, but that might not be the case. It looks like it could be within striking distance.

If I were to stop TRT, the one supplement I would continue to use is high dose magnesium throughout the day. It’s helped me in so many ways. Something to think about if you haven’t already.

Before I was on TRT, low dose (6.25mg twice a day) oral DHEA helped me, too. Improved my mood and libido.

I agree, magnesium is an amazing mineral. Do you mind if I ask what brand you use, what dose you take, and how often throughout the day you take it?

Are you still using 6.25mg of oral DHEA 2x/ day?

 

[xqfq]

I agree, magnesium is an amazing mineral. Do you mind if I ask what brand you use, what dose you take, and how often throughout the day you take it?

Are you still using 6.25mg of oral DHEA 2x/ day?

I take cheap NOW brand magnesium citrate. I was taking 400mg a day (divided into three doses during the day), but I now may try raising that as I’ve read athletes need more magnesium.

I also take magnesium bicarbonate water which I make from milk of magnesia and carboned water. It’s super cheap and my favorite. I mix it into my preworkout drink and sip it throughout the day. Naturally, we used to get much of our magnesium from water, which now contains no magnesium unless you’re drinking very expensive mineral water! http://www.acupuncturebrooklyn.com/how-tos/how-to-make-magnesium-bicarbonate-water

 

[Gman86]

I take cheap NOW brand magnesium citrate. I was taking 400mg a day (divided into three doses during the day), but I now may try raising that as I’ve read athletes need more magnesium.

I also take magnesium bicarbonate water which I make from milk of magnesia and carboned water. It’s super cheap and my favorite. I mix it into my preworkout drink and sip it throughout the day. Naturally, we used to get much of our magnesium from water, which now contains no magnesium unless you’re drinking very expensive mineral water! http://www.acupuncturebrooklyn.com/how-tos/how-to-make-magnesium-bicarbonate-water

Omg I forgot all about magnesium bicarbonate water! I used to make this all the time. I forget why I stopped. But I definitely still have 3-4 bottles of MOM that I bought off amazon. I’m gonna make a batch later tonight. Thanks reminding me about this stuff.

What seltzer water do you use to mix with the MOM?