Carnivore Diet-Dr. Baker Blood Test

[JakeH]

This is an interesting review of his blood levels, but his testosterone is especially interesting. He is athletic and very muscular, yet his TT is 237 and FT 5.5. Not sure of the ranges, but they are low no matter. He posits that his androgen receptors are sensitive, so the low lab value is not clinically significant.

https://robbwolf.com/2018/03/13/episode-385-dr-shawn-baker-carnivore-diet-and-dr-bakers-blood-work/

 

[Vince]

I wonder what's causing his testosterone levels to be so low, when my levels are that low I get Ed and cannot gain any muscle or strength.

 

[Dave B.]

It's disappointing that the blood work they are going over has no "before" comparison data. That invalidates everything they are discussing, frankly. He could be 30% worse across the board and they would have no idea. Best case this is useless information, and worst case these people are being deliberately deceptive (i.e. liars).

I do agree 100% that everyone needs to know what is going on in his or her own body. The blanket advice "everyone should eat paleo/low-carb/low-fat/animals only/plants only" is always too simplistic. If this guy found a regimen that is working for him, great.

Edit -- In particular the APO E3 or APO E4 genetic variant have very different responses to even medium-fat diets. It's probable that this doc's genetic variant matches with his diet choice, whereas for others (probably like me) with APO E4 it would be a health disaster.

Couple of other points: it is great to be tuned in to your lipid profile, but these are only part of the risk story. If you want to know what's going on with your cardio health you need to actually go and look: like with a heart scan or a carotid artery scan. Also knowing your own genetic risk for everything from diabetes to dementia to kidney stones to cancer should inform your decisions. I realize I'm preaching to the choir.

 

[TheDude]

I wonder what's causing his testosterone levels to be so low, when my levels are that low I get Ed and cannot gain any muscle or strength.

Could be because he is 51. He said he wakes up every morning with an erection, so ED isn't a problem. I think this shows that people need to chase how they feel instead of numbers on a test. Everyone is different.

 

[klawler9]

I'm glad you posted this. I wish more people would take a look at this guy and help me understand what might be going on. For those that don't know who he is he is an absolute specimen. Giant 51 year old guy with low body fat and weighs in around 240 I think. Has set all kinds of indoor rowing records. Can deadlift over 500lbs. Eats only meat literally nothing else and his T is super low by our communities standards. He argues (or theorizes) it's because his receptors are sensitive as you point out. It's also interesting that his fasting glucose levels are high at 126. This is on a strict zero carb diet for 15 months. I know this is just N=1 but me thinks there is more going on than we really understand. Would love to see results from others on a mostly meat only diet (like that of some of our ancestors).

 

[captain]

I don't know how labs work but this could be like running female labs on a male and as we know they are not accurate. You have someone doing extreme things that are way off from the general population and it would be reasonable think that the labs may not be accurate.

 

[Mr. T]

Shawn Baker responds to Testosterone Levels: https://www.shawn-baker.com/the-meat-blog/2018/4/20/testosterone-its-complicated

 

[Bentiger07]

I can relate to putting on muscle while having natural low T, and my brother can as well. When I used to have low T, I was very much into working out. I had and still have above average muscular build with facial hair. Never a clear six-pack, but still somewhat lean. The only reason I started HRT was because PDE5 inhibitors wasnt working for ED/libido. Now that I'm on HRT, putting on muscle takes less effort.

My brother told me he has low T, but without the symptoms. He doesn't treat his low T and is living a normal life. I guess it brings to question if a person with low T should be treated if there are no symptoms. I'm guessing that answer is no. I know there are studies out there that say low T has health risks, but I also believe in if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Will Brink]

This is an interesting review of his blood levels, but his testosterone is especially interesting. He is athletic and very muscular, yet his TT is 237 and FT 5.5. Not sure of the ranges, but they are low no matter. He posits that his androgen receptors are sensitive, so the low lab value is not clinically significant.

https://robbwolf.com/2018/03/13/episode-385-dr-shawn-baker-carnivore-diet-and-dr-bakers-blood-work/

There's nothing about his blood work that indicates that approach has been metabolically beneficial. I'm confused how he, or anyone, would be using the blood as support for that nutritional approach. I have seen far worse yes, but if i saw blood work like that and didn't know what they were eating, I'd be advising them to change it pronto.

If he says he feels great doing that, all good, but it's not supported by his labs. I suspect he will have major issues in the near future.

 

[BradWI]

I started carnivore in April. I also signed up for a gym after 1.25 years on TRT with no physical improvement because of no exercise.

Carnivore + TRT + resistance training = what I was looking for. I feel like I'm 21 instead of 44.

I'm even APOE 3/4 and very insulin resistant. Blood sugars are dropping and I'm always in mild ketosis (.2 to .8 blood ketones). Gluconeogenesis is demand driven and someone like Shawn Baker has plenty of demand for glucose.

There's ******** carnivore groups with 20,000+ people in them. There's dozens of people in those groups that have been doing this 5+ years and plenty 10+ years.

 

[LTChris]

been carnivore for about a month now, Gut issues (ibs-c) much better for sure. Still low energy though, I think I need to work on more calories. Interesting Diet, surprisingly easy to follow. But, as said previously, no one diet for everyone. But, if you are not doing well on current diet, why not give it a chance for a month or so?

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

He has mentioned in later interviews that he retested his T and it was "much higher" so the other reading could be an outlier. There has been much discussion about his A1C and I think the general conclusion is that it may be naturally higher for people who are very active. He apparently did a CGM and his blood sugar was very stable. It is important to remember that almost all of what is considered "normal" is based on data from a very unhealthy population so we are in the very early days of starting to get a pool of data from people who are somewhere on the healthy spectrum. His insulin and CRP numbers are outstanding which are likely two of the most important. I seem to remember his trigs being good as well, so he is likely healthier overall than 99% of the North American population, maybe more.

 

[Jinzang]

First, athletes often have lower testosterone levels as a result of over training. Second, we should consider the possibility that since weight lifting is his chosen sport, he may have taken steroids in the past, which has depressed his testosterone levels.

Finally, anyone who considers eating a diet devoid of fruits and vegetables in light of what we know of their nutritional benefits is nuts. Simply nuts.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

First, athletes often have lower testosterone levels as a result of over training. Second, we should consider the possibility that since weight lifting is his chosen sport, he may have taken steroids in the past, which has depressed his testosterone levels.

Finally, anyone who considers eating a diet devoid of fruits and vegetables in light of what we know of their nutritional benefits is nuts. Simply nuts.

If you read through a good sample of the testimonials on sites like meatheals.com and see the recoveries from previously un-solvable severe health issues ("suicide-level pain" for example), what is nuts, or more accurately negligent and un-ethical, is not making this a standard treatment option for people with these, or other unsolvable conditions. Yes, there might have been another approach that has not been discovered, and yes, there may be longer-term issues, however for the time-being the overall health and quality-of-life improvements that many people are experiencing seem very compelling. As has been widely discussed, plants have many defense mechanisms which most people seem to be able to fend off, but that does not mean that all people can.

 

[JPB]

One possibility is the guy was on TRT and did not want to reveal that

 

[BradWI]

Finally, anyone who considers eating a diet devoid of fruits and vegetables in light of what we know of their nutritional benefits is nuts. Simply nuts.

Can you tell me these benefits I'm not getting by only eating meat?

 

[JimBob]

Yeah, show me the evidence that it's"nuts".
Not to derail the discussion, but check out the Human Performance Outliers podcast for more info on this, and other related topics. Fantastic guests.

 

[LTChris]

The truth is there is just not any good or long term research available yet on this diet. All just subjective evidence. That being said, we should not dismiss it just because it flies in the face of convention. Remember most of us are on this forum because we disagree with conventional medicine. I just try to keep an open mind on it. Full disclosure - I am on the diet and it is doing well for my IBS-C