Are guys that do well on low dose clomid unicorns...or do they really exist?
- Thread starter Dr Justin Saya MD
- Start date
iron.triangle
New Member
Hello everybody. I am one of the unfortunate Post finasteride guys. 1 month in drug, 4 months off. 6 foot 2, 195 pds. 28 yrs old.
I shelled out the cash for an advice only consult with Dr. Crisler today. After looking at my labs: below range FSH (0.9), low total T (250-350 Ng/dL), low LH(1.6-2.9), low SHBG (17-19), higher DHT (3082), higher estradiol(120 pmol/L) (not sensitive so he said it was worthless but none the less estrogen is close to top of range).
Symptoms are Ed, low libido, decreased ejaculate, decreased penile sensitivity, more body fat around belly area, harder to put on muscle. I feel nuts are smaller due to being deprived of test and gonadotropin. Finasteride pretty sure gave me a vericocele. That’s about it.
Dr. John recommended low dose clomid 25mg EOD for an unknown amount of time but likely 3 ish months.
Just wanted to get feedback because I am in the military and can’t take drugs forever so really hoping this treatment can reverse me back to my old self after restoring HPTA axis and gonadotropin output.
I am confused though about the whole E2 thing. Clomid increases E2 due to increase in Test as well as zucomiphene component..... and E2 is highly suppressive to gonadotropin output. So how can my system restart or keep chugging along after clomid if I don’t control E2?
Dr. Crisler did not want me to take HCG or AI because he said they suppress normal hormonal pathways. And when asked if I wanted to take drugs for life or try to restore normal hormonal pathways I responded with the latter and he said,
Well then just take the clomid.
If someone can further clarify the science behind this that would be great.
Cheers boys. And good health.
Hopefully this PFS thing is actually just the drug made me hypogonadal or something and there is a way out. Fingers crossed
I shelled out the cash for an advice only consult with Dr. Crisler today. After looking at my labs: below range FSH (0.9), low total T (250-350 Ng/dL), low LH(1.6-2.9), low SHBG (17-19), higher DHT (3082), higher estradiol(120 pmol/L) (not sensitive so he said it was worthless but none the less estrogen is close to top of range).
Symptoms are Ed, low libido, decreased ejaculate, decreased penile sensitivity, more body fat around belly area, harder to put on muscle. I feel nuts are smaller due to being deprived of test and gonadotropin. Finasteride pretty sure gave me a vericocele. That’s about it.
Dr. John recommended low dose clomid 25mg EOD for an unknown amount of time but likely 3 ish months.
Just wanted to get feedback because I am in the military and can’t take drugs forever so really hoping this treatment can reverse me back to my old self after restoring HPTA axis and gonadotropin output.
I am confused though about the whole E2 thing. Clomid increases E2 due to increase in Test as well as zucomiphene component..... and E2 is highly suppressive to gonadotropin output. So how can my system restart or keep chugging along after clomid if I don’t control E2?
Dr. Crisler did not want me to take HCG or AI because he said they suppress normal hormonal pathways. And when asked if I wanted to take drugs for life or try to restore normal hormonal pathways I responded with the latter and he said,
Well then just take the clomid.
If someone can further clarify the science behind this that would be great.
Cheers boys. And good health.
Hopefully this PFS thing is actually just the drug made me hypogonadal or something and there is a way out. Fingers crossed
Defy prescribed me 12.5 mg every day and i feel great after a month right now. I felt terrible when i didn't take anastrozole. But i started to feel better after anastrozole. I added 0.125 mg of anastrozole every day along with clomid and now bumped it up to 0.25 mg every day and it felt better. When i skipped the combo, i delt even better so I'm gonna take the combo every other day.
How have you been feeling on the clomid? Has it helped with symptoms?
lowe2sucks
Member
did anybody could stay on clomid without need for anastrozole? seems like sooner or later you need to add AI to clomid monotherapy
Vince Carter
Banned
Typically because its overdosed
I was on clomid for several years without an AI. Titrated down to 12.5mg E3D and that kept Total T levels 700-800 range. However, SHBG was always high, so Free T was low. And no subjective benefits at all. It was certainly easier to take a 1/4 tablet pill than do TRT, and I liked the fact that endogenous systems were sustained, but no perceived benefits so finally gave it up.
lowe2sucks
Member
why does clomid causes side effects that trt doesn't? is it because clomid blocks estrogen effect on the brain? or opposite? i am off t my testosterone is probably very low and i feel not good.. i need to know if I will feel worse on clomid or maybe like 5-10% better... I just don't want to feel worse because im already feeling quite bad and trt for me usually causes episodes of feeling worse and then episodes of feeling better I like ups but can't take downs I would rather feel more "stable"
caspian2001m
New Member
Dr. Saya,
I am a 45 year old man and was prescribed 90 Clomid 50 mg tablets (one per day) due to low sperm count. However, my Testosterone was normal. After 6 weeks from starting, LH was 10.6 (norm: 1.7-8.6 IU/L) and Free T=602 (196-636 pmol/L). After 9 weeks from starting, Total T=35.5 (8.4-28.8 nmol/L), FT=512, and Estradiol=143 (norm: <162 pmol/L). After 11 weeks from starting, TT=34.5, F.T=482, and E2=146. At this point (11 weeks after starting), I stopped Clomid. 3 days after stopping, TT=30.8, FT=406, and E2=147. About 3 weeks after stopping, TT=26.9, and FT=261. About 6 weeks after stopping, TT=25, FT=332, and E2=46. About 14 weeks after stopping, TT=22.9, FT=266, E2=62, and DHEA-S=5.9 (norm:<9.7). Now, It is 15 weeks after stopping Clomid. My questions are:
- Is 50 mg Clomid, every day 1 pill for 3 months without AI is permitted or considered over dose?
- TT being higher than max. normal level for about 6 weeks and without taking any AI, can cause prostate cancer (due to high TT) or breast cancer (due to high E2)?
- Will Gyno and puffy nipples caused by Clomid be disappeared after stopping clomid, by itself?
- Do I need to take any medication such as AI (for estrogen control) or Taxoxifen (for removing Gyno)?
Thank you very much
I am a 45 year old man and was prescribed 90 Clomid 50 mg tablets (one per day) due to low sperm count. However, my Testosterone was normal. After 6 weeks from starting, LH was 10.6 (norm: 1.7-8.6 IU/L) and Free T=602 (196-636 pmol/L). After 9 weeks from starting, Total T=35.5 (8.4-28.8 nmol/L), FT=512, and Estradiol=143 (norm: <162 pmol/L). After 11 weeks from starting, TT=34.5, F.T=482, and E2=146. At this point (11 weeks after starting), I stopped Clomid. 3 days after stopping, TT=30.8, FT=406, and E2=147. About 3 weeks after stopping, TT=26.9, and FT=261. About 6 weeks after stopping, TT=25, FT=332, and E2=46. About 14 weeks after stopping, TT=22.9, FT=266, E2=62, and DHEA-S=5.9 (norm:<9.7). Now, It is 15 weeks after stopping Clomid. My questions are:
- Is 50 mg Clomid, every day 1 pill for 3 months without AI is permitted or considered over dose?
- TT being higher than max. normal level for about 6 weeks and without taking any AI, can cause prostate cancer (due to high TT) or breast cancer (due to high E2)?
- Will Gyno and puffy nipples caused by Clomid be disappeared after stopping clomid, by itself?
- Do I need to take any medication such as AI (for estrogen control) or Taxoxifen (for removing Gyno)?
Thank you very much
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Vince Carter
Banned
Direct stimulation of the testes where aromatase happens pretty easily. Most any one that has a problem on Clomid is going to have an E problem.
My experience was that it worked for a few months then the benefits faded and levels of T became low again. I think I peaked T about 600 from a start at 250. My doctor said that is somewhat typical of my age group (50's) that he sees but his younger guys can stay on it and seldom lose effect.
Initially I started on a low dose and my estrogen shot up into the 80's and I felt like it. Increasing the dose brought E down and T up after that. This was in 2013 so I no longer remember the exact dosing but it was in line with the max recommended at the time I recall. I had to use an AI to keep E in range. I'd recommend trying it and see how it works if looking for an alternative to other treatments especially if trying to preserve function
Initially I started on a low dose and my estrogen shot up into the 80's and I felt like it. Increasing the dose brought E down and T up after that. This was in 2013 so I no longer remember the exact dosing but it was in line with the max recommended at the time I recall. I had to use an AI to keep E in range. I'd recommend trying it and see how it works if looking for an alternative to other treatments especially if trying to preserve function
Everybody is different I guess. I started with 50mg Clomid/day.Now 25mg/day. Will reduce to 12.5mg to see how I do. I did not have any kind of vision issue. But just did not feel good.Energy level is little up.
After a several months off I started back three weeks ago currently taking 12.5mg clomid / 0.15mg anastrozole every day. While I have noticed some positive effects, slight increased libido and morning erections, the effects seem to be much less than my previous therapy. I had been off for about five months, primarily for financial reasons, but before was taking 12.5mg/0.2mg anastrozole every day and titrated down to EOD for awhile.
Could the decrease from 0.2mg to 0.15 anastrozole potentially be causing the lessened response or would trying a slightly higher initial dosage of clomid, say 25mg daily, be an option as I "restart" again?
I am waiting on new labs from Defy which will obviously show a lot but just wanted to get your thoughts.
In the past I responded very well to clomid with a significant increase in my testosterone and libido. We're currently trying to conceive so replacement T isn't an option for me at this time.
Thanks all and to Dr. Saya!
In my case clomid has elevated my total testosterone well. I felt improvement, but I was still complaining on low T symptoms, especially fatigue, libido, erection quality, depression and sleep disorders. The longer I was taking it, the positive effects were slowly dissapearing. I started 50mg eod, after 3,5 months 50mg 5 times per week, after another 3,5 months 50mg 4 times per week etc. My total testosterone was 700-900 ng/dL during therapy. Is there any managment of existing hypogonadal symptoms despite high total T, which my endocrynologist hasn't tried with me, or I should switch clomid to testosterone? He checked only total testosterone during treatment with this drug.
Before starting taking clomid, I had detailed diagnostic in the hospital, macroandenoma had been found on my pituitary (acromegaly) I was prescribed testosterone 100mg e14d, I was taking it for 10 weeks, until surgery and I felt much more improvement comparing to clomid. Surgery was succesfull but I still have to take Sandostatin Lar 30mg to keep my IGF-1 in normal range. 6 months After surgery my tesosterone raised to 400ng/dl but hypogonadal symptoms were still existing so my physician decided to give me clomid.
Before starting taking clomid, I had detailed diagnostic in the hospital, macroandenoma had been found on my pituitary (acromegaly) I was prescribed testosterone 100mg e14d, I was taking it for 10 weeks, until surgery and I felt much more improvement comparing to clomid. Surgery was succesfull but I still have to take Sandostatin Lar 30mg to keep my IGF-1 in normal range. 6 months After surgery my tesosterone raised to 400ng/dl but hypogonadal symptoms were still existing so my physician decided to give me clomid.
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I know this is an old thread but thought I would put my two cents in. 29 years old two daughters so no concern of fertility. Had 8-9 months of a pretty horrible trt experience. Finally got with defy and had dr. Saya recommend 12.5 mg clomid a day. First 3 weeks felt fantastic, best I had in years. Anxiety was gone, libido up, competitive nature was back. About 4 weeks in I thought I might be having some visual side effects( just felt like I had sat in front of a computer for hours, eye strain even when I hadn’t.) called defy and was advised to stop clomid and have bloodwork early. Also noted that I started to feel mediocre again right about that same day I called defy. (Start of week 4). Blood work showed I responded really well. Estradiol ended up high as well as shbg increased significantly. Had my follow up with an NP. We decided on adding .125 of AI 1-2 times a week, as well as DIM and decreasing dose to 12.5 EOD. Hoping to get back to the way I was feeling those first few weeks. Just looking for thoughts and opinions.
Murray—How did things end up working out for you? Are you still on Clomid? I am also working with Defy and am considering a Clomid tratement plan similar to yours. Would love to know your progress.
Guys, clomiphene does not work out well for most people in the long run. I was on it for five years, low dose 12.5mg. It was convenient and cheap, and Total T was great, Free T was low due to high SHBG. End result was going on T cream with Defy.
However, enclomiphene is now available from one U.S. pharmacy. Enclomiphene is not expensive, and is the desirable isomer of clomiphene (zuclomiphene being the undesirable estrogenic isomer). Ask Defy if they would consider trying out enclomiphene. So far they have not, but maybe if enough of us ask about it they will reconsider.
We would all like to be on easy to administer, inexpensive, enclomiphene if it would really work. But the only way we will know is if we can try it for ourselves.
However, enclomiphene is now available from one U.S. pharmacy. Enclomiphene is not expensive, and is the desirable isomer of clomiphene (zuclomiphene being the undesirable estrogenic isomer). Ask Defy if they would consider trying out enclomiphene. So far they have not, but maybe if enough of us ask about it they will reconsider.
We would all like to be on easy to administer, inexpensive, enclomiphene if it would really work. But the only way we will know is if we can try it for ourselves.
Hey lake guy,
I eventually went off clomid after about 2 months. It caused some servere emotional and depression issues that weren’t solved even with a low dose AI. Since I had issues with injections before I switched to compounded topical and am feeling great now. I was hoping clomid would work and I felt awesome for the first little bit but like most other stories didn’t work in the long run. Good luck!
I eventually went off clomid after about 2 months. It caused some servere emotional and depression issues that weren’t solved even with a low dose AI. Since I had issues with injections before I switched to compounded topical and am feeling great now. I was hoping clomid would work and I felt awesome for the first little bit but like most other stories didn’t work in the long run. Good luck!
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