Are guys that do well on low dose clomid unicorns...or do they really exist?

[trthcg05]

Dr. Saya,

This is my EXACT situation! Same with not having the facts at my disposal before TRT, being in my 30's, having a wife that wants more children, and having no side effects explained to me by my doctor. I was told everything would be a utopia and nothing could go wrong. Well, she was wrong. It has been a disabling nightmare. My doctor has no clue what to do and every doctor I see is clueless and they just tell me to wait. I don't have time to just wait. I need to work and support my family. I have pellets. When do I really know when pellets have worn out? It's been 3 1/2 months. I Defy can help me out, I would love to give the unicorn a ride! If I need HCG, which I really need for fertility and secondary hypo (both legal uses here), I can drive and go get it in Texas. I live in Louisiana.

Thanks!

The patient in that thread is 35yo, was prematurely placed on TRT about 7 months ago by a doctor who didn't counsel him or offer alternative options/testing despite the fact that he appeared strongly SECONDARY on initial labs with suppressed LH/FSH. Both he and his wife aren't thrilled about the idea of lifelong TRT at 35yo unless it's the ONLY option, and unfortunately his initial work-up by the other doctor didn't answer that question sufficiently. He would like to give his body one last fighting chance before he commits wholeheartedly to TRT (this really should have been done initially anyways given his age and initial labs indicating secondary hypogonadism). If a Clomid stimulation fails, then both he and I (and his wife) will feel more comfortable committing to lifelong TRT as we'll be confident it is 100% necessary at that point.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Trthcg05 -

I am sorry to hear of your situation as it illustrates quite well one of the main drawbacks of pellet TRT... Once they're in, you are married to them for the better part of four months. Further, it sounds as if you were not offered an appropriate work-up initially, but instead were "sold" on the pellet TRT. If it has been 3 1/2 months since the pellet insert, the pellets should be on their way out as we speak. I can help you with a restart regimen. Contact my office to get the ball rolling.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Dr. Saya, I am a relatively young guy (33 yo) currently on a regiment of Test Cyp and HCG. I am moderately interested in a restart in the near future, a little spooked of Clomid but willing to give a low dose a try. I know each patient is different, but have you seen good success in restarts where the axis has been restored after TRT and the body is putting out decent Testosterone numbers on its own? I wouldn't be interested on staying on Clomid for the rest of my life. When I decide to do a restart, I will consult with Defy.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

I know each patient is different, but have you seen good success in restarts where the axis has been restored after TRT and the body is putting out decent Testosterone numbers on its own?

Depends on many factors, but yes I have seen many successful restarts. Factors include: age, length of time HPTA suppressed, mitigating causes of HPTA suppression in the first place (nutrition, exercise, sleep, stress, other meds, substance use, etc), and importantly GRADUALLY titrating off of the Clomid over time (as the above are being addressed/corrected) vs stopping "cold turkey". It takes work as the Clomid is only a part of the equation, but success is found in many instances.

 

[Charliebizz]

Does clomid have any effect on cortisol levels. I ask because when I tried trt on a few occasions it lowered my cortisol from its already low normal numbers. Confirmed by blood and saliva tests. When I was on clomid (in varying doses) I never checked my cortisol levels but I didn't feel that it lowered my cortisol like standard trt did. Low dose clomid raised my testosterone from 250 to 550. And my lh and fsh went from low normal to close to top of range. Only problem is my shbg went to top of range even on 12.5mg eod. I never really felt right on clomid and my levels went back down after coming off clomid (on for 6 months)

I'm much better off in my health journey then I was back then and I really would like to get my testosterone levels back up but I'm scared to mess with my fragile cortisol again. Perhaps maybe clomid with estrogen control could help. I forgot to mention I also have low normal e2 when I'm not on any medications.

 

[ERO]

You may well do better on twice weekly Test injections. A Total T of 550 is kinda like getting a "C" on your report card at best.

 

[Vitamin_C]

If I get off TRT and a low dose Clomid can get me into the 500-600's naturally and can stay that way after I come off I would consider that pretty successful. I was high 400's, low 500's before I started TRT at 33 years old so I think that is definitely achievable. I think lifestyle is also incredibly important as well such as diet and testosterone boosting exercise.

 

[Braindev]

If I get off TRT and a low dose Clomid can get me into the 500-600's naturally and can stay that way after I come off I would consider that pretty successful. I was high 400's, low 500's before I started TRT at 33 years old so I think that is definitely achievable. I think lifestyle is also incredibly important as well such as diet and testosterone boosting exercise.

But isn't 500 ng/dl healthy number?

 

[Charliebizz]

I was on t cyp a few times. And I had great labs while on. Except cortisol. It lowered my cortisol significantly and I felt it confirmed by labs. Clomid was much gentler approach for me however it caused shbg to go up and my free t was low.

I also tried using hydrocortisone on trt as well and it only made the ride more bumpy. I'm also 33 years old btw

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

But isn't 500 ng/dl healthy number?

The LabCorp range for total Testosterone is 348 to 1197 ng/dL. Is 500 in range? Yes, of course it is, but that would put someone at the 29th percentile within the "normal" range. Is that an optimal level? Not in my opinion.

 

[ERO]

A level of 500 is like getting a 'C-' on your TRT reports card instead of a 'A' and the goal of the top TRT docs is normally to get you to the upper quartile of the normal range. So ideally, you want to be between 900 - 1197.

 

[HarryCat]

But isn't 500 ng/dl healthy number?

If you felt great and no longer had lowT symptoms, then yes, that is a healthy number, if not then you would be justified in shooting for a higher number, or looking into other causes for your symptoms.

 

[Braindev]

The LabCorp range for total Testosterone is 348 to 1197 ng/dL. Is 500 in range? Yes, of course it is, but that would put someone at the 29th percentile within the "normal" range. Is that an optimal level? Not in my opinion.

Oh, really? I'm 22 years old and have 400 ng/dl. I have low libido but I'm scared of testosterone because of side effects. I tried 250 mg of testosterone a week and my libido was so high. I felt male again.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Oh, really? I'm 22 years old and have 400 ng/dl. I have low libido but I'm scared of testosterone because of side effects. I tried 250 mg of testosterone a week and my libido was so high. I felt male again.

400 ng/dL is really low...especially for a healthy 22 yr old kid. That's in the bottom 3.5% of the "in range" value.

Have you consulted with Defy Medical yet? Because of your age, it would seem like you'd be a prime candidate for a Clomid restart.

 

[Braindev]

400 ng/dL is really low...especially for a healthy 22 yr old kid. That's in the bottom 3.5% of the "in range" value.

Have you consulted with Defy Medical yet? Because of your age, it would seem like you'd be a prime candidate for a Clomid restart.

Yes my friend. I'll tell you something. My testosterone was 260 due to other problems and I was feeling very tired. I now have 400 ng/dl and I don't feel that tired but my libido is low. My life energy is also low. I'm not in USA and don't know English language very well.

Doctors in here says 400 ng/dl is perfectly normal. I told them I'm 22 years old and they told me it doesn't matter, lol.

 

[Charliebizz]

I know people with t levels in the 300 and feel great. great libido good energy. And I know people with great levels that feel horrible and low libido. It's not always about the numbers guys.

 

[Braindev]

I know people with t levels in the 300 and feel great. great libido good energy. And I know people with great levels that feel horrible and low libido. It's not always about the numbers guys.

My problem is my libido is low. But sometimes my libido is rising but still I dont feel I have enough energy for sex. 250 mg of testosterone gave me that energy. +hcg also. My testosterone level was >1500 ng/dl.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Doctors in here says 400 ng/dl is perfectly normal. I told them I'm 22 years old and they told me it doesn't matter, lol.

400 ng/dL is perfectly normal? For who...a 65 year old man with diabetes?

I'm sorry to hear that your doctor feels that way. I'd be looking for a different doctor.

 

[Braindev]

400 ng/dL is perfectly normal? For who...a 65 year old man with diabetes?

I'm sorry to hear that your doctor feels that way. I'd be looking for a different doctor.

I saw 5 different doctors. They say 400 ng/dl is fine.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I saw 5 different doctors. They say 400 ng/dl is fine.

Though you live outside the US, a remote consultation with Defy Medical could be scheduled. You could then present their thoughts to your treating physician.