Any advie?

[lawso1989]

Hey just wondering if anyone's had pretty decent test levels but decided to go down the trt route as they believed their levels were above average when they were younger but now you have low T symptoms but with average T?

I've been basically feeling like my quality of life has been going down hill, tick all the boxes om the ADAM test and trying to see if trt is the way to go. Anyone else with these levels went for it?

Thanks in advance

 

[aloetard]

Hey just wondering if anyone's had pretty decent test levels but decided to go down the trt route as they believed their levels were above average when they were younger but now you have low T symptoms but with average T?

Your TT and FT levels are fine.

Do not enter.

 

[lawso1989]

Do not enter, I like that .

Forgot to mention I'm 34, and things aren't getting any better.

 

[aloetard]

Do not enter, I like that .

Forgot to mention I'm 34, and things aren't getting any better.

Lots of options if you are dead set on this. .

- provocative test with hCG (6-12 weeks)
- provocative test with AI (same)
- less suppressive TRT options (nasal gel or buccal troche)

Learn as much as you can about yourself before you suppress your FSH/LH+gonads.

That makes the first two and even third option really interesting.

Injecting test ester should not enter your option space right now.

 

[Systemlord]

Hey just wondering if anyone's had pretty decent test levels but decided to go down the trt route as they believed their levels were above average when they were younger but now you have low T symptoms but with average T?

Sometimes below average T levels are normal for someone. It all depends on your AR gene CAG repeat numbers (low = sensitive, high means insensitive at the receptor to testosterone) and how sensitive your tissues are to testosterone, I do pretty well with low normal testosterone. I’ll report back on Saturday.

Maybe I like my father who had his testosterone checked in his 70s and it was very low and he didn’t have any symptoms.

 

[lawso1989]

Thanks for all that, I'll have a look into all those options. Think it could also be thyroid related symptoms as there was a couple of flaged bloods on it I'll need to get checked by a proper Dr (if I can find one)

 

[aloetard]

Thanks for all that, I'll have a look into all those options. Think it could also be thyroid related symptoms as there was a couple of flaged bloods on it I'll need to get checked by a proper Dr (if I can find one)

Yeah your thyroid labs are intriguing. Good job pulling those. You ordered those yourself?

 

[lawso1989]

Intriguing is the right way to put it. I've been trying to figure this out for a few years now and if it's not testosterone it has to be thyroid related. So I'm visiting home in the uk and was able to pay for proper blood work so went all out. Even they said the thyroid results don't make sense so definitely get it rechecked asap by a gp, but we all know how gps aren't the best these days.

 

[Systemlord]

Intriguing is the right way to put it. I've been trying to figure this out for a few years now and if it's not testosterone it has to be thyroid related. So I'm visiting home in the uk and was able to pay for proper blood work so went all out. Even they said the thyroid results don't make sense so definitely get it rechecked asap by a gp, but we all know how gps aren't the best these days.

If you’re taking iodine supplements, that would skew your TSH results.

 

[RickB]

Sometimes below average T levels are normal for someone. It all depends on your AR gene CAG repeat numbers (low = sensitive, high means insensitive at the receptor to testosterone) and how sensitive your tissues are to testosterone, I do pretty well with low normal testosterone. I’ll report back on Saturday.

Maybe I like my father who had his testosterone checked in his 70s and it was very low and he didn’t have any symptoms.

If the above is valid, and I don’t see any reason why it would not be, then the opposite could be just as valid. And I suppose just as likely. Maybe the OP is someone for whom above average T levels are normal.

@lawso1989 Your post had a good theory that no one here has put a chink in yet. In fact the post above kind of bolsters it if anything.

If your levels were above average when younger, then why not try trt. If you don’t have any results from then, you can still try it. The only way I’d say don’t try it is if you want to reproduce. If you do want to reproduce, you can still go on it, but it’s more complicated.

Trt isn’t “for life”. It just ends up being for life if you love it and see no reason to get off, or if you’re a knucklehead constantly chasing good results that never come…like me. So the only cautionary word is don’t expect it to be great; it might be but it also might not.

 

[lawso1989]

@RickB Thanks man I appreciate your input, it's definitely something I wish I knew about when I was younger. I'd even say if I have kids one day and they're boys they'll be getting tested at a good age so they'll know their baseline early days. I'd definitely say in my teens I showed signs of high T, extremely athletic, amazing sleep and could show the lady's a good time again and again. But once I hit 28 it's been the complete opposite with added extra bonus of anxiety and depression In there. I'll go to work(physical) , hit the gym and I'm done, not even energy for the woman and then my sleep is terrible, I can't win at the minute so you can see my predicament.

 

[lawso1989]

If you’re taking iodine supplements, that would skew your TSH results.

No iodine supplements for me

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Add enclomiphene to your list of safe options to experience some effects of higher testosterone levels without risking permanent harm to your HPTA.

 

[lawso1989]

Add enclomiphene to your list of safe options to experience some effects of higher testosterone levels without risking permanent harm to your HPTA.

I've been interested in giving it a try but I seen mixed opinions all over the web about that route but then again the internet is always full of mixed opinions these days, so thanks ill look into it. Would this cause the same eye issues as clomid or am I completely off and they're different pharmaceuticals? Thanks

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I've been interested in giving it a try but I seen mixed opinions all over the web about that route but then again the internet is always full of mixed opinions these days, so thanks ill look into it. Would this cause the same eye issues as clomid or am I completely off and they're different pharmaceuticals? Thanks

The zuclomiphene isomer in clomiphene is a definite problem for eye health, enclomiphene is not. A relevant excerpt from the European Medical Association report on enclomiphene, where enclomiphene was reported to have fewer visual side effects than placebo in clinical trials:

If anything, I'm scared of testosterone gel after reviewing this data. What's up with the cataracts?

 

[lawso1989]

The zuclomiphene isomer in clomiphene is a definite problem for eye health, enclomiphene is not. A relevant excerpt from the European Medical Association report on enclomiphene, where enclomiphene was reported to have fewer visual side effects than placebo in clinical trials:

View attachment 47189

If anything, I'm scared of testosterone gel after reviewing this data. What's up with the cataracts?

That's awesome thanks for all that info.

 

[lawso1989]

Just incase anyone was curious after about 7 years of symptoms and getting my TSH tested the same amount of times. I took this full private blood work to a Dr and as soon as he seen the high free T3 and thyroid antibodies, he instantly put me down for an urgent referral to an endocrinologist. So finally heading in hopefully the right direction.

Thanks

 

[Gman86]

So I would personally feel like sh*t with ur free T level. And I did when I was 27 and had to go on TRT. My free T level was a bit lower than urs, but not by a ton. But on TRT I found that I need a free T level way higher than urs is at currently to feel good again. Not saying to go on TRT tomorrow, but I can almost guarantee getting ur free T level up quite a bit would definitely alleviated/ improve some of the symptoms ur experiencing. But obv other routes could be beneficial, to look into, before going that route. Enclomiphene could be a possible option. I personally tried clomid, and it brought my natural levels up a ton! But then they just dropped back down after I stopped it. Enclomiphene as a permanent solution I guess could be an option. Not really sure, haven’t done enough research into it myself

Looks like ur total T level is good tho. It’s just ur SHBG binding a lot of it, and leaving ur free T a little lower than ur body would probably prefer. Maybe using a low dose of something like proviron, which lowers SHBG, could be beneficial for u, if u can get ur hands on some. I’ve taken dht derivatives for years now, and I feel like my SHBG is permanently on the lower end now. So maybe something like proviron isn’t something u would have to take forever, to keep ur SHBG down, and free T up

Man, never seen someone with a high TSH and a super high free T3 like this! So weird lol. I really like the work of Westin Childs, when it comes to thyroid into, and he considers anyone with a TSH over 2.5 hypothyroid, regardless of what the rest of their labs look like. He would absolutely say ur hypothyroid, with ur tsh. So weird that ur thyroid seems to be producing so much free T3, in a most likely hyperthyroid state. Very confusing. Based on ur Anti thyroid peroxidase level, it does look like u have some auto-immune stuff going on there.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Just incase anyone was curious after about 7 years of symptoms and getting my TSH tested the same amount of times. I took this full private blood work to a Dr and as soon as he seen the high free T3 and thyroid antibodies

The first thing I would do with positive thyroid antibodies is stop eating gluten. If that wasn't sufficient to bring my thyroid antibodies down, I would move to an animal-based diet, and if that didn't do the trick I would go full carnivore. Gluten-free is a no brainer though.

Effect of gluten-free diet on autoimmune thyroiditis progression in patients with no symptoms or histology of celiac disease: a meta-analysis

Hashimoto’s thyroiditis (HT) is the most common autoimmune disease. HT may be associated with nonthyroidal autoimmune diseases, including celiac disease (CD) or other gluten-related conditions (GRC). In the last years, interest about gluten-free ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Gman86]

The first thing I would do with positive thyroid antibodies is stop eating gluten. If that wasn't sufficient to bring my thyroid antibodies down, I would move to an animal-based diet, and if that didn't do the trick I would go full carnivore. Gluten-free is a no brainer though.

Effect of gluten-free diet on autoimmune thyroiditis progression in patients with no symptoms or histology of celiac disease: a meta-analysis

Hashimoto’s thyroiditis (HT) is the most common autoimmune disease. HT may be associated with nonthyroidal autoimmune diseases, including celiac disease (CD) or other gluten-related conditions (GRC). In the last years, interest about gluten-free ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yup, couldn’t agree with this more. Would definitely focus as much as u can cutting out gluten, and all grains in general, if possible. Other two things that should make the biggest difference is cutting out dairy, unless it’s raw, unpasteurized, unhomogenized, and from grass fed animals, and processed seed oils. Obv the list of things that ur probably consuming that are causing inflammation, and increasing ur thyroid antibodies, that u should cut out, could go on and on, but to keep things as simple, and realistic as possible, would definitely focus on cutting out gluten, dairy and processed crap oils, including vegetable oil.

Going carnivore should knock those antibodies down close to zero in no time, but obv carnivore isn’t for everyone. But if all else fails, it is an option that should work extremely effectively for ur thyroid issue, assuming ur somewhat on top of all other lifestyle factors