Anastrozole or not

[Vince]

Why is everyone thinking that he has low E2? It sounds like high E2 to me at least the way high E2 to makes me feel, but I agree you're taking the right steps in getting blood work done and it's fairly cheap and easy. I too have been the same place Maximus is. It seems like at least from the doctors that I've met or spoken with that most want to start everyone on 200 mg of testosterone a week, but from what I've read that's not a TRT amount. Either way it would be extremely rare for someone to be able to take 200 mg of testosterone a week and not have to take the anastrozole. I've been lowering my testosterone and eliminated in anastrozole. At 30 mg every other day of testosterone cypionate with 250ius of hCG every other day, my Morningwood is back and I'm feeling good, but I'll be getting lab work done soon. I don't have that done yet, but I feel good and everything else seems to be working.

I believe without hcg, 200 mg of testosterone (100mg x 2 a week) would normally be right.

 

[CoastWatcher]

If someone was pinning a single injection of 200mg/week, I'd probably agree with you. That same dosage broken up and pinned EOD, then who knows? It depends on the person...everyone is different.

The consensus/bias here is that it is easier to "start low, and go slow." It reasonably easy to increase the amount of testosterone given on a weekly basis, just as it is to carefully increase an Anastrozole dose. Backing a dose down seems, for most physicians and patients, to be more of a challenge. But, you're right - in the absence of tests we are working in the dark...and everyone is certainly different.

 

[HoustonTX]

I believe without hcg, 200 mg of testosterone (100mg x 2 a week) would normally be right.

Just from what I've read about other people's posts and from my own experience, 200 mg of testosterone a week is right, if you want to take Anastrozole with your testosterone. For someone who wants to keep their test level around 800, you don't need 200 mg of testosterone. If you want to keep your test level well above normal limits and above 1000, then 200 mg a week will do that but it will also cause your E2 to be too high and you will have to take anastrozole to keep your E2 within a reasonable number

 

[HoustonTX]

Probably because of a lack of any other symptoms. Without lab work, your guess is as good as mine, but I'm joining the crowd that thinks he crashed his E2.



200mg a week is definitely on the high end of TRT. Most guys I either know personally, or have read about here on TRT start with a much lower dosage.



If someone was pinning a single injection of 200mg/week, I'd probably agree with you. That same dosage broken up and pinned EOD, then who knows? It depends on the person...everyone is different.

His E2 level could be too high or too low. It's impossible to tell without labs. However, his symptoms don't necessarily indicate that his E2 Level is too low either. Personally, if my E2 is too low, I have great erections, great or no Morningwood depending, very low sensitivity in my penis, my quality of orgasms is absolutely awful, but erections are easy to get and maintain. But who wants to keep an erection, when your sensitivity is so low it doesn't feel good to have sex. When my E2 is too high, I have no Morningwood, and I can't get erections easily or maintain them, sensitivity is great, my anxiety level is much higher, but who cares about sensitivity when you can't maintain your erections

 

[Maximus220rr]

THanks guys on all replies! I will just have to get blood work done I have ordered from discountlabs.Com so hopefully next week I can get it checked.
Some other symptoms I have are depression and sometimes a bit moody?
I can get somewhat of an erection but they aren't fully hard?
My belly fat seems to have increased but no nipple pain or sensitive.
It seems like I need to have my doc back me off my test dose from what I hear u guys saying. Is my hcg dose too high as well? She Backed me off from 1500ius to 1200ius a week I split the dose into 3 times at 400ius.
I have a feeling am too high but I can't be for certain.
If I do my test this week how far apart should I be from blood drawn and taking test and hcg?
Thanks

 

[HoustonTX]

I am certainly not an expert in there others on here who have much more in-depth knowledge than I do, but I am following what most people are doing on here in terms of hCG. Most are at 500ius twice a week, 250 every other day, or 125 every day. Lipshultz recommends 500ius three times a week to preserve fertility (while on TRT), and he's the only one who's done studies to back it up that I'm aware of (from Nelson's post). You want to have your blood drawn on the day of your next injection prior to your injection. So, if you inject twice a week, have your blood drawn prior to your next injection which is your trough. Your test and E2 will be at its peak the day after your injection which would be a poor measure.

 

[Maximus220rr]

Just to clarify...if I do my hcg Mon wed friday and test injection on Tues and thursday....I go get blood drawn either Tues or Thurs before I would inject that day. Does it matter that I get blood drawn the day after an hcg injection?
Will skew my blood test?
Thanks

 

[HoustonTX]

Good question. Your blood draw is always centered around your test injection. So, if you inject your test on Tuesday and Thursday, you would get your blood drawn on Tuesday or Thursday before your injection. I inject my hcg on the same day as my test for convenience, but I know that some people and docs suggest taking your hcg on the days you don't inject test. When my injections were not in sync, I would skip my hcg injection prior to my test injection to get a most accurate reading. The thought being that the hcg affects your test and E2 a lot less than your 100mgs of test. However, you have been taking more hcg than most people on this forum, so that could sqew results. I would skip the hcg injection prior to your next test injection as well, especially if you are considering lowering your hcg as well. The goal is too aim for what your E2 is in response to your test at trough and eliminate as many other factors as possible. At the same time, though, you don't want to change too many variables at once. I would defer the part about skipping the hcg injection to others on this forum, though, as I'm not as familiar with how the injection of hcg 48 hours prior to would affect your blood test. It also depends on whether you plan to keep injecting hCG at the same frequency and amount as you have been. You voiced a concern that you thought it might be too much, and I agree with your assumption.

 

[HoustonTX]

So, either way, you get your blood drawn on Tuesday or Thursday prior to your injection. The only question is whether you should take your hCG the day before, in my opinion. I don't think 125 or 250ius will skew your results. 500 probably will

 

[lcvl]

Like it or not, 200mg a week is not the standard trt dose.
And regarding the op e2 levels, my bet is also on high e2.
Check your levels and talk to your doctor before making any adjustments. Just my suggestion.

 

[Maximus220rr]

Thanks for all the info! Hcg dose is 400ius 3 times a week......so I could probably just do 250ius the day before my blood drawn.
Discountlabs should be sending my test form monday......I probably could just go Monday if I get the form in time really and do my hcg shot later after blood us drawn.
I think once I figure out where my estradiol is at and get that in line....am gonna lower my test dose it seems like am on a big dose and don't want any negative effects from running too high of test. All under my doc supervision I won't be doing this on my own.

 

[HoustonTX]

You can go Monday, but you won't be getting your E2 tested in your trough, if you inject test injection normally on Tuesday and Thursday. Why are you injecting on Tuesday and Thursday? Aren't you injecting every 3.5 days, if you're splitting your injections into twice a week for your test, it should be every 3.5 days? If you inject Tuesday morning, I believe your next injection should be Friday evening or night to make it 3.5 days. Lowering your hCG injection to 250ius prior to your bw is probably the way to go. But missing one hCG injection, but missing one hCG injection, wont through off your protocol either. If your next injection is Tuesday, get your blood drawn on Tuesday before you take your test injection for the best read on whether your e2 is high or low. Why waste time and money?

 

[Vince]

Just from what I've read about other people's posts and from my own experience, 200 mg of testosterone a week is right, if you want to take Anastrozole with your testosterone. For someone who wants to keep their test level around 800, you don't need 200 mg of testosterone. If you want to keep your test level well above normal limits and above 1000, then 200 mg a week will do that but it will also cause your E2 to be too high and you will have to take anastrozole to keep your E2 within a reasonable number

I use 80mg of testosterone cypionate and 500iu of hcg every 3 1/2 days - no AI


testosterone, serum 1059ng/dl 348-1197
free testosterone direct 28.9 pg/mL 6.6-18.1
dhea-sulate 214.9 ug/dL 48.9-344.2
estradiol, seneitive 27.3 pg/mL 8.0-35.0

 

[DDD]

I'm fairly new to the forum, but have been learning a lot by reading. Maximus, I have had similar issues.

Could someone's E2 really be crashed when it measures at 38? I'm not fully understanding that. When my E2 has been in high 30s or low 40s is when I have similar problems Maximus is mentioning, which I thought was too high E2.

Though I've learned on the forum that it is the ration of T to E that is more important.

Maximus, I be interested to know what your next lab work says.

 

[ERO]

An E2 of 38 (we will assume the ultra sensitive test) is only a useful number in a comparative ratio to your Total T. It makes perfect sense if you think about it: if your Total T was, say 500, then an E2 of 38 is a lot higher percentage-wise than if your total T was 1100, right?

Think of it like this: If we say that any E2 over 30 is too high, that is the exact same (faulty) logic as if we said that any man over 200 lbs is fat. What if the man has 7% body fat? What if the man was 6' 5" tall? etc...

 

[Maximus220rr]

Vince are u doing hcg and test shot the same day? So is the every 3.5 days the way to go with trt protocol? My doc just said to do it twice a week nothing about 3.5 days?

 

[Maximus220rr]

Houston
I will go tuesday before injection of test and I will do a low dose hcg on Monday I guess. Ya I have been doing test shots every Tuesday and thursday.....doc said I could split shots up like that I didn't know anything about every 3.5 days? Should I start doing my shots that way? Also should I do my hcg shots every 3.5 days?
Everything seems so dang confusing now?
Well shot routine is easy but I think my trt protocol is set at too high of dose no wonder I can't get my e2 under control.

 

[ERO]

Your dosing schedule is not "wrong" - just far more complicated than necessary. Just inject everything every 3.5 days.

Also, wait until your sensitive E2 test comes back before you panic. 200 mg a week is a high TRT dose but a perfectly acceptable dose for many guys so don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[maxadvance]

Houston
I will go tuesday before injection of test and I will do a low dose hcg on Monday I guess. Ya I have been doing test shots every Tuesday and thursday.....doc said I could split shots up like that I didn't know anything about every 3.5 days? Should I start doing my shots that way? Also should I do my hcg shots every 3.5 days?
Everything seems so dang confusing now?
Well shot routine is easy but I think my trt protocol is set at too high of dose no wonder I can't get my e2 under control.

Think about it, your protocol has you shooting 48 hours after one shot and then 5 days after the other shot. That's a setup for inconsistent readings and your body is wondering what's going on too, especially on the E2 side since Arimidex only has a half life of 50 hours. I do tuesday morning and friday afternoon, far from confusing.

 

[Maximus220rr]

If I start injecting everything every 3.5 days which is easy just something I haven't been doing because doc never told me.....when should I take my anastrozole? I have been doing .25 on Wednesday.....should I keep that the same until e2 test comes back?