After many years I think I've figured my situation out

[1Draw]

By the way, what type of testosterone are you injecting and what is the oil? Just curious......by the way, if I remember correctly Trump's total T was in the 450 range and he's pretty active and healthy....

 

[sh1973]

Cypionate 200mg per ml cottonseed oil

 

[Systemlord]

It's thought that the stickiness of SHBG varies from person to person where SHBG in one some individuals can grab ahold of more testosterone molecules than the next guy, perhaps yours isn't very sticky. It would also means your receptors are very sensitive if you can get by with less free testosterone.

 

[sh1973]

It's thought that the stickiness of SHBG varies from person to person where SHBG in one some individuals can grab ahold of more testosterone molecules than the next guy, perhaps yours isn't very sticky. It would also means your receptors are very sensitive if you can get by with less free testosterone.

What you’re saying makes perfect sense and there’s research out there stating testosterone bound by SHBG isn’t as unusable as once thought. In fact Dr Crisler had posted something regarding this a while back. I mean at this small dose I have a ton of energy, wake up every day with an erection, starting to have really good libido and just feel good overall. Dr Gordon states the vast majority of his patients are only 60-80mg per week with majority at 60mg with great results. I’m not doubting there are probably some men that might need a high dose but I think a lot of us can do much better at a more conservative dose. Even my sleep is better than in years and for the first time in years my skin is completely clear.

 

[Vince Carter]

This is great news...keep it up!!!

 

[Tommy Wall]

If I´m correct Nelson only injects 2x50mg per week. It is a moderate dose. I do the same and is ok with it

 

[Vince]

If I´m correct Nelson only injects 2x50mg per week. It is a moderate dose. I do the same and is ok with it

I believe the last time he posted his protocol, it was now 75 mg of T cyp, 500 iu of HCG and no AI twice a week, shallow IM.

 

[at15]

this is really good news, if i recall you were considering quitting trt and trying to restart. are you still taking cialis now?

 

[sh1973]

I am for the time being taking the compounded 3mg. Might just stay on it for the other benefits honestly.

 

[at15]

how are you doing with this? that's unbelievable you can hang on at 68 mg once weekly. there was a study with healthy young men who averaged 306 ng/dl trough for 50 mg once weekly.

 

[sh1973]

how are you doing with this? that's unbelievable you can hang on at 68 mg once weekly. there was a study with healthy young men who averaged 306 ng/dl trough for 50 mg once weekly.

I’m doing very good, in fact I’ve dropped down to 60mg and still feel great. I’ve seen too many times over the years where guys drop their dose and do much better and I’m now a believer. I’m going to labs soon but honestly it’s just for the doctor. At this point I don’t even care what they are.

 

[Vince Carter]

I too was curious how your were doing here. I'm finally under 100mg/total per week and doing pretty OK but still have some things to complain about but that's really come down to penile sensitivity and erection quality/sustainability. ANything else is kind of minor nuisance any more.

 

[sh1973]

Vince I’m really doing great. As I said in the earlier reply, I’ve dropped down to 60mg once weekly. In theory everything I’m doing shouldn’t work, especially considering I have sky high shbg. Nine days ago I even added 10mg DHEA back in which has definitely provided even more sexual benefits. This is weird considering I couldn’t even tolerate 5mg whenever I was injecting 100-120mg cypionate weekly. I truly believe if a lot of guys who are really struggling would just back off some regarding dose, they’d too see sometimes less is better. This has been a real eye opener for me. If nothing else, I hope I can prevent someone from suffering as long as I did. I’m doing complete labs next Tuesday through my urologist including full thyroid panel just to see where everything has landed.

 

[Vince Carter]

My thinking is coming around, changing, about this. I'm really surprised that I've basically cut my dose in HALF from 28mg/D to 16mgD and I still pull these numbers. My E finally moved down though, thank God. Further reduced the dose to 14mg/D. Ive been wanting my Free T and Free E to come down, which seems to be working.

16mg/D
200iu HCG once per week
.25mg AI EOD

LC/MS/MS: 18 (<=29)
Estradiol: 23 (<=29)
Estradiol, Free: .62 (<=0.45)
TT: 941 (250-1100)
FT: 291 (35-155)
PSA: 0.6

 

[sh1973]

There’s no doubt in my mind that my free t is going to come back lower in the range but I’m beginning to believe with all people free t isn’t as important as we’ve all been led to believe. Honestly at this point I don’t care if it’s 6ng.

 

[HarryCat]

Vince I’m really doing great. As I said in the earlier reply, I’ve dropped down to 60mg once weekly. In theory everything I’m doing shouldn’t work, especially considering I have sky high shbg. Nine days ago I even added 10mg DHEA back in which has definitely provided even more sexual benefits. This is weird considering I couldn’t even tolerate 5mg whenever I was injecting 100-120mg cypionate weekly. I truly believe if a lot of guys who are really struggling would just back off some regarding dose, they’d too see sometimes less is better. This has been a real eye opener for me. If nothing else, I hope I can prevent someone from suffering as long as I did. I’m doing complete labs next Tuesday through my urologist including full thyroid panel just to see where everything has landed.

Very interesting. I've dropped my dose down to 70mg/week. On my last set of labs my DHEA-S was less than 30. Like you, when I was on a higher dose of test. I could not tolerate supplementing any DHEA. Now I've been taking 25-30mg per day along with 30mg of pregnenolone and my sleep is finally improving. It's been a real game changer in that dept. I think I'll continue to lower the dose and see how low I can go before I start to feel adverse effects.

 

[madman]

There's no doubt in my mind that my free t is going to come back lower in the range but I'm beginning to believe with all people free t isn't as important as we've all been led to believe. Honestly at this point I don't care if it's 6ng.

No one has been lead to believe that that free t is what matters.....study the literature....it is well known that free t is important.

Free t is the active fraction and responsible for effects on the AR (androgen receptor).

If you feel you do well with levels in the lower range so be it.....and if because you have lowered your testosterone dose so much it was a dismal 6 than there is no point in wasting your time with trt as you are shutting down your hpta for nothing!

Very rare someone can experience any benefit from trt using a dose of 60mg/week or LESS as for the majority that dose of testosterone would do nothing to raise levels into the mid-normal to high-normal physiological range let alone relieve/improve symptoms of low t.

80-100mg/week is the common starting dose and even than 80mg would be too low for many.

Sure there are a small percentage of men who can maybe get away with 60mg/week but that is very rare to say the least!

 

[HarryCat]

Sure there are a small percentage of men who can maybe get away with 60mg/week but that is very rare to say the least!

I don't think it is as rare as we all believe based on what we read on the forums. It seems that most guys on the forums are very/mostly interested in the anabolic effects of higher levels and that distorts what is considered an "effective" dose.

From Dr. Gordon's writing it seems 60mg is about the average dose that is necessary to achieve good results in his treatment of PTSD cases.

 

[madman]

I don't think it is as rare as we all believe based on what we read on the forums. It seems that most guys on the forums are very/mostly interested in the anabolic effects of higher levels and that distorts what is considered an "effective" dose.

From Dr. Gordon's writing it seems 60mg is about the average dose that is necessary to achieve good results in his treatment of PTSD cases.

That is Gordon compared to many others and even than the standard dose of 100mg/week will not do much regarding anabolic effects.....sure there will be improvements in ones body composition (increase muscle/loss body fat) but no where near comparable to testosterone doses for body building purposes 250-600mg/week.

Even in the literature the minimum dose needed to provide mild anabolic effects was 125mg/week but much larger increase in muscle were not seen until 300-600mg/week was used.

I agree that there are some men that can get away with using 60mg/week but for most it would do nothing and at a minimum 80-100mg/week would be needed.

 

[madman]

I don't think it is as rare as we all believe based on what we read on the forums. It seems that most guys on the forums are very/mostly interested in the anabolic effects of higher levels and that distorts what is considered an "effective" dose.

From Dr. Gordon's writing it seems 60mg is about the average dose that is necessary to achieve good results in his treatment of PTSD cases.

I have always been about advocating lower doses for trt as too many men whether misinformed or mislead from the steroid forums or heresay still seem to think higher doses are needed and one needs to have levels in the high/normal range to benefit from trt.

It is also true for some men seeking trt that aside from low t symptoms muscle building is an underlying reason.