advice on getting dialed in

[SSHSSA74]

I’ve found that I simply feel my best with free T in the mid 40’s. Never had it go higher, so just thought maybe I would feel better with it slightly higher. On 180mg/ week, my free T was around mid 40’s. I honestly just feel better with higher free T. Not much else to it. And I find the standard direct free T tests correlate perfectly with how I feel, so I just stick to what works. To me it doesn’t matter if it’s accurate or not. All that matters is that it always correlates with how I feel, and gives me the information I need.

And I definitely had a good experience with scrotal T. Libido wasn’t the best, but definitely felt great mood and energy wise. It’s one of the reasons I opted to go back to a test base. Thinking there might be something to having optimal/ high levels of DHT, in regards to not only libido, but overall mood and brain health. I just didn’t like having to apply the cream twice per day, and didn’t like that I had to limit the things I did for hours afterwards. Plus, idk if I’m 100% comfortable with having DHT levels over 300. It might be completely benign, but I just think I need to see more research before I’m comfortable with having such high DHT levels long term. But I switched mostly due to the inconvenience factor. I find it much more convenient to inject once in the AM EOD.

The nandrolone based protocol was definitely a good experience overall. I’d highly recommend it to anyone that struggles with high E2 issues and wants to avoid using an ai. I absolutely think it has its place in HRT, and can be a game changer for a lot of guys. I may even go back to it at some point. Just want to experiment and see how I feel on my current protocol and managing E2 with a DHT derivative.

I also still fully believe that the optimal diet for humans is a mainly carnivore approach, with some healthy/ benign carbs to mimic how our ancestors would of eaten, and to keep fasting blood sugars from going too high. Seems that full carnivore can tend to spike fasting glucose levels. But adding in low amounts of healthy carbs, here and there, seem to keep fasting glucose levels down. I personally still do a mainly carnivore approach, with some white rice, honey and select fruits.

Overall, I mainly experiment to find what’s going to be optimal for my body long term, and to try and minimize my brain fog as much as possible, and hopefully get rid of it completely at some point. I also experiment to help others out as well tho. I think it’s more helpful to give other guys advice on things I’ve personally experienced and tried, than to read studies and speculate and theorize and then give advice on these subjects.

Gman86. What was your dosing when you were doing scrotal cream and what base did you use? I know you've posted this info somewhere but I couldn't find it. And did you do the cream alone or with hcg, AI DHEA etc..? thanks.

 

[trtthings]

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Thanks Vince. Am mildly surprised to see this on here. I suspect a great part of my fatigue is due to excessive inflammation. Testosterone is known to suppress IL-6 and TNFa which is why I at least partially think I'm feeling relief.

LDN does more of the same, so I've been considering it for some time. Plus potential mood elevation doesn't sound too bad (this probably depends whether you're actually naturally low in beta-endorphins).

 

[Vince]

Thanks Vince. Am mildly surprised to see this on here. I suspect a great part of my fatigue is due to excessive inflammation. Testosterone is known to suppress IL-6 and TNFa which is why I at least partially think I'm feeling relief.

LDN does more of the same, so I've been considering it for some time. Plus potential mood elevation doesn't sound too bad (this probably depends whether you're actually naturally low in beta-endorphins).

By replying, I’m hijacked in the thread. We should talk about LDN, on the proper thread.

 

[Gman86]

Gman86. What was your dosing when you were doing scrotal cream and what base did you use? I know you've posted this info somewhere but I couldn't find it. And did you do the cream alone or with hcg, AI DHEA etc..? thanks.

10-4-19
3 clicks back of knees am, 3 clicks inner forearms pm. (50mg/ click)
Labs done 5 hours after am application
Total T - 817 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T - 19.9 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)

10-15-19
2 clicks to scrotum, 1 click to back of knees am, 3 clicks to forearms in pm.
Labs done 3 hours after am application
Total T - 1428 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T - 31.5 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)

11-2-19
2 clicks to scrotum, 1 click to back of knees am, 1 click to scrotum, 2 clicks to forearms pm
Labs done 2.5 hours after am application
Total T - >1500 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T - 34.4 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)

11-16-19 (came back 7:30pm mon)
3 clicks to scrotum am, 3 clicks to scrotum pm
Labs done 3.5 hours after am application
Total T - >1500 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T - 38.1 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)

11-30-19 LABCORP
3 clicks to scrotum am, 1 click to scrotum, 2 clicks to forearms pm
Labs done 3.5 hours after am application
Total T - >1500 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T - 45.0 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)

11-30-19 (QUESTDIAGNOSTICS)
No HCG
No AI
Total T - 1680 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T - 398.2 (46.0-224.0)
SHBG - 33 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 79
E2 NOT Sensitive - 88
E2 Free - (0.2-1.5)
DHT - 311 (16-79)
IGF-1 - 223
DHEA-S - 616 (106-464)
Progesterone - 0.8 (<1.4)
Prolactin - 10.5 (2.0-18.0ng/ml)
HGB - 17.4 (13.2-17.1g/dl)
HCT - 52.4 (38.5-50.0%)
Vitamin D - 40 (30-100ng/ml)
B12 - 964 (200-1100)

Was only on the cream for a couple months. Those were all the protocols and labs while on the cream

As far as the base goes, idk of empower offers different bases. I think this was just their “HRT” base

And while on the cream I just did the cream only. Never used an ai, HCG, DHEA, preg or anything else while on the cream. Just cream solo. My DHEA levels aren’t just naturally high for some reason. No idea why

 

[Gman86]

Just to come with a completely random suggestion that I have no idea whether holds any merit. Have you looked at Low dose naltrexone?

It works by blocking the opioid receptors in the brain temporarily. The body responds by making more beta-endorphins and more opioid receptors.

The side effect profile is almost non-existent and this is often used off-label for people with autoimmune diseases. The reason for why I mention this is I recall a lot of them saying it lifted their brainfog. This might be due to the anti-inflammatory effect, or maybe something else.

No ur suggestion absolutely holds merit! It’s definitely something I’ve seriously considered. My DHEA is naturally very high, and DHEA opposes cortisol. So I’ve thought about ways to boost cortisol up a bit. LDN seems like it would be the safest option to do so. But I just don’t like having to take something that disrupts normal bodily functions. The body is the most amazing machine ever, and knows what it’s doing. So I just don’t like the idea of taking something that disrupts the normal functions of the body to feel better.

Couple questions. Is LDN a corticosteroid? And do u know if it in fact does increase cortisol?

Thank u for the suggestion tho. I’ve definitely heard the same about it lifting brain fog

 

[Gman86]

I felt great when I first went carnivore, but I hit a wall after the first year with how I was feeling when I restricted all carbs for too long. I've since incorporated a solid amount of carbs again and I feel much much better. I think its a smart approach instead of going all in (like I always end up doing with everything).

According to madman, I do the same thing, and he isn’t wrong lol. I follow dr Paul Saladino for most of my carnivore/ diet advice. The guy is basically a computer. Extremely smart and open minded and his critical thinking skills are through the roof. He’s incorporated carbs into his diet, last time I checked. So of he’s doing some carbs with his mostly carnivore diet, that’s most likely the way to go. It’s consistent with how most of our ancestors would of eaten. Mostly carnivore, with seasonal carbohydrates. Most likely a cyclical keto diet for the most part.

 

[Ronnny]

I am looking for some help on why i dont feel like i did when i originally started trt. I have been reading and searching trying to figure this all out with no luck. i have had low t for the past 8 years and have tried treatment numerous times without luck. This time i am going through a clinic and trying to be patient i have never stuck it out this long. I will list some of my lab work of concern.
47 year old male
6ft
200 pounds
40 mg test cyp eod sub q

TT 755
Estradiol 39 (11-44)
DHEA 394 (71-375)
Homocyst 16 (0 - 14)
MPV 9 (9-12)
Globulin 2.2 (2.2-3.8)
These labs where done without fasting in the afternoon

After i got over all the side effects in the begining i was feeling pretty good but now i feel like i did pre trt. Sore muscles and joints, low libido , erections suck, i also find it hard to breathe sometimes. i did get alot of my strength back tho. i feel like im close and dont wanna give up. im sure i forgot to include alot of info. Any feed back would be great. i also tried .25 of Ai past couple of weeks 1 time a week and it almost felt like that helped for a few days.

what is your free T and SHBG? That is important to relate to TT.

 

[trtthings]

No ur suggestion absolutely holds merit! It’s definitely something I’ve seriously considered. My DHEA is naturally very high, and DHEA opposes cortisol. So I’ve thought about ways to boost cortisol up a bit. LDN seems like it would be the safest option to do so. But I just don’t like having to take something that disrupts normal bodily functions. The body is the most amazing machine ever, and knows what it’s doing. So I just don’t like the idea of taking something that disrupts the normal functions of the body to feel better.

Couple questions. Is LDN a corticosteroid? And do u know if it in fact does increase cortisol?

Thank u for the suggestion tho. I’ve definitely heard the same about it lifting brain fog

It's not a corticosteroid and I hadn't heard of the effect on cortisol. The problem is that most of the studies with low dose naltrexone have been done with people with autoimmune diseases and they haven't so far focused on cortisol.

Here's one study for naltrexone at a more conventional dose: Naltrexone effects on cortisol secretion in women and men in relation to a family history of alcoholism: Studies from the Oklahoma Family Health Patterns Project

Markedly increases cortisol in women but less but still noticeable in men. This is 50mg though - LDN users typically use between 3 - 4.5mg (and start even lower and bump it slowly until they find the sweet spot). The effects might be way different.

I find it an interesting drug though, and I agree you don't want to mess with things unless things are already messed up, but what I've heard from doctors is that it's a harmless drug and nobody's ever gotten worse from taking it.

The only other thing I know of that I've heard some say reduces brainfog (at least for hypothyroid people) is thyroid medication including T3.

It's interesting that you can find studies that show that testosterone increases T4 -> T3 conversion, whereas E2 has the opposite effect.

 

[SSHSSA74]

10-4-19
3 clicks back of knees am, 3 clicks inner forearms pm. (50mg/ click)
Labs done 5 hours after am application
Total T - 817 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T - 19.9 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)

10-15-19
2 clicks to scrotum, 1 click to back of knees am, 3 clicks to forearms in pm.
Labs done 3 hours after am application
Total T - 1428 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T - 31.5 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)

11-2-19
2 clicks to scrotum, 1 click to back of knees am, 1 click to scrotum, 2 clicks to forearms pm
Labs done 2.5 hours after am application
Total T - >1500 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T - 34.4 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)

11-16-19 (came back 7:30pm mon)
3 clicks to scrotum am, 3 clicks to scrotum pm
Labs done 3.5 hours after am application
Total T - >1500 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T - 38.1 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)

11-30-19 LABCORP
3 clicks to scrotum am, 1 click to scrotum, 2 clicks to forearms pm
Labs done 3.5 hours after am application
Total T - >1500 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T - 45.0 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)

11-30-19 (QUESTDIAGNOSTICS)
No HCG
No AI
Total T - 1680 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T - 398.2 (46.0-224.0)
SHBG - 33 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 79
E2 NOT Sensitive - 88
E2 Free - (0.2-1.5)
DHT - 311 (16-79)
IGF-1 - 223
DHEA-S - 616 (106-464)
Progesterone - 0.8 (<1.4)
Prolactin - 10.5 (2.0-18.0ng/ml)
HGB - 17.4 (13.2-17.1g/dl)
HCT - 52.4 (38.5-50.0%)
Vitamin D - 40 (30-100ng/ml)
B12 - 964 (200-1100)

Was only on the cream for a couple months. Those were all the protocols and labs while on the cream

As far as the base goes, idk of empower offers different bases. I think this was just their “HRT” base

And while on the cream I just did the cream only. Never used an ai, HCG, DHEA, preg or anything else while on the cream. Just cream solo. My DHEA levels aren’t just naturally high for some reason. No idea why

Thanks for the detailed information! I appreciate it. You have said in the past that you felt BEST on cream only protocol but that your libido wasn't much better or worse than injections. In which ways did you recall you did feel BEST on the cream. I have added 50 am/50 pm to my low dose injection protocol and I have noticed a slight increase in libido but nowhere near where I want it.