Solvent-free propionate: finally a successful protocol for me!

Hello everyone,

I hope everyone is doing well and is excited for the holidays coming up. After years of experimenting, pain, insomnia and more I believe I have finally found a protocol that works for me!

Solvent free propionate 12mg before bed with 5mg topical dhea in the morning

Funkodyssey was the first to share with me the idea that many who struggle with insomnia, overstimulation, and other nasty symptoms on cypionate and (regular) propionate are really struggling with sensitivity to benzyl benzoate.

Ive found that through personal experience that I do not tolerate BB whatsoever. Enanthate and cream do not cause these side effects for me (cream doesn’t work for me because it doesn’t absorb well for me however). However, propionate feels the best for me personally despite the insomnia it can cause.

Funk later brought up solvent-free propionate at 50mg/ml to me. It’s through an UGL which made me a bit uncomfortable, but I decided to give it a try because while enanthate works I had zero libido.

Oh mannnnn the difference. All the benefits of propionate without the solvent driven anxiety. Libido has been much better than even regular prop. Energy has been better and I’m sleeping perfectly. I’ve been on this protocol for about 4 weeks. I will be getting my bloodwork done next week.

That said, I do not feel 100% comfortable with using UGL and I am looking for white market options. I use defy medical for my labs and enanthate prescription but I haven’t scheduled an appointment to ask whether they would use a compounding pharmacy that still makes propionate and can make propionate without BB. If anyone can find a compounding pharmacy that defy is willing to work with let me know. I’m planning to call a handful in Arizona.

Many thanks for this and keep the updates coming. I too experienced some odd side effects with Empower's prop and always suspected the benzyl benzoate (listed as 15% on the ingredient listing).

The carrier oil alone suffices because of the low concentration? Is there still benzyl alcohol? If so, how much (standard 1-2%?)? Maybe I'll give this a try and brew up a batch.

joikd said:

The carrier oil alone suffices because of the low concentration? Is there still benzyl alcohol? If so, how much (standard 1-2%?)? Maybe I'll give this a try and brew up a batch.

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Yes there is still benzyl alcohol as preservative, I believe it’s 1%.

Willyt said:

Many thanks for this and keep the updates coming. I too experienced some odd side effects with Empower's prop and always suspected the benzyl benzoate (listed as 15% on the ingredient listing).

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Will do! I’m very sensitive to benzyl benzoate too, I don’t tolerate cypionate or regular propionate

Post labs when you get them

Update:

I had to unfortunately drop this protocol as it seems I slowly got more and more sensitive to the ethyl oleate that pharmacom puts in their propionate. I started getting itching spells, slowly worsening sleep, and other histamine intolerance symptoms again. And yet, they still were no where near as bad as how BB makes me feel

I did get bloods before choosing to drop the protocol however:

Taken at 8am, 11 hours post injection:

TT: 946 ng/dl
FT: 25. 5 ng/dl
SHBG: 26 (actually rose which was really surprising and cool!)
Estradiol: 35

Feelings: other than the allergies this protocol felt great. I’m going to be on the hunt for solvent free propionate that I can get compounded or UGL (not preferred) that doesn’t contain ethyl oleate. I may try this protocol again after going back to being more hardcore on my histamine intolerance protocol. I’ve began to remove histamine producing foods and restarted my yogurt with the strain BB536 was has been shown to reduce histamine. Also making beet kvass with L. plantarum 299v. Any other histamine reducing tips anyone has I’d appreciate. I really want to make this protocol work for me!

My current protocol will then be testosterone enanthate at 36mg 3x for around 100mg. Very unfortunate ending to this protocol but I was starting to get an allergic reaction.

I will potentially attempt this protocol again after fully addressing histamine intolerance and doing some research.

I started feeling the itching about 3 weeks ago which alleviated when dropping the protocol

Pnw0031 said:

Update:

I had to unfortunately drop this protocol as it seems I slowly got more and more sensitive to the ethyl oleate that pharmacom puts in their propionate. I started getting itching spells, slowly worsening sleep, and other histamine intolerance symptoms again. And yet, they still were no where near as bad as how BB makes me feel

I did get bloods before choosing to drop the protocol however:

Taken at 8am, 11 hours post injection:

TT: 946 ng/dl
FT: 25. 5 ng/dl
SHBG: 26 (actually rose which was really surprising and cool!)
Estradiol: 35

Feelings: other than the allergies this protocol felt great. I’m going to be on the hunt for solvent free propionate that I can get compounded or UGL (not preferred) that doesn’t contain ethyl oleate. I may try this protocol again after going back to being more hardcore on my histamine intolerance protocol. I’ve began to remove histamine producing foods and restarted my yogurt with the strain BB536 was has been shown to reduce histamine. Also making best kvas with L. Plantiarium (probably not spelled right) 299v. Any other histamine reducing tips anyone has I’d appreciate. I really want to make this protocol work for me!

My current protocol will then be testosterone enanthate at 36mg 3x for around 100mg. Very unfortunate ending to this protocol but I was starting to get an allergic reaction.

I will potentially attempt this protocol again after fully addressing histamine intolerance and doing some research.

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Obviously our environments play a role, but I think the biggest factor with allergens is often diet. That being said, it may be worthwhile looking into something like the AIP diet, even if it’s just for a month to reset. I followed it strictly for a month and the difference was pretty remarkable. Drastically improved digestion(from someone who has digestion issues more than most), mental clarity through the roof, energy levels good, well-being improved, etc. To follow it exactly does require some dedication through, and it’s somewhat easy to get tired of the same foods. The ideal approach is to be strict for a month and then slowly re-introduce foods to see which ones cause issues, but I ended up just drifting back towards a less than ideal diet over time. My diet is still better than most Americans(I know…not saying much), but has room for improvement. I’ve statted off the new year doing really good though and can already tell a significant difference.

The reason I bring this up is because you mentioned allergens, and when we bombard our system with substances(whether that’s via food, water, air, skin exposure, etc) that can irritate it then the system becomes on high alert and is more likely to “attack” something it isn’t sure of. The more you can reduce that level of alert by removing as many irritants as possible from your internal environment the better the whole system will operate. Not saying it will be enough to allow your body to tolerate the additives, but the lower the amount of allergens and irritants via other sources the better your chances will be.

Phil Goodman said:

Obviously our environments play a role, but I think the biggest factor with allergens is often diet. That being said, it may be worthwhile looking into something like the AIP diet, even if it’s just for a month to reset. I followed it strictly for a month and the difference was pretty remarkable. Drastically improved digestion(from someone who has digestion issues more than most), mental clarity through the roof, energy levels good, well-being improved, etc. To follow it exactly does require some dedication through, and it’s somewhat easy to get tired of the same foods. The ideal approach is to be strict for a month and then slowly re-introduce foods to see which ones cause issues, but I ended up just drifting back towards a less than ideal diet over time. My diet is still better than most Americans(I know…not saying much), but has room for improvement. I’ve statted off the new year doing really good though and can already tell a significant difference.

The reason I bring this up is because you mentioned allergens, and when we bombard our system with substances(whether that’s via food, water, air, skin exposure, etc) that can irritate it then the system becomes on high alert and is more likely to “attack” something it isn’t sure of. The more you can reduce that level of alert by removing as many irritants as possible from your internal environment the better the whole system will operate. Not saying it will be enough to allow your body to tolerate the additives, but the lower the amount of allergens and irritants via other sources the better your chances will be.

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That’s a great idea, AIP actually has a ton of crossover with the histamine intolerance protocol. Unsurprisingly, most things that can influence autoimmune responses are high in histamines. My diet is generally very good, high in fruits and veggies and the only grain I consume (which technically isn’t even a grain) is buckwheat. But I will go more and more strict.

That said, I’m very sensitive to most supplements and medications which can be a sign of inflammation and low histamine tolerance.

I’m convinced that a lot of my issues started when I moved to the Phoenix area so I’m also in the process of moving my family out of Arizona.

Pnw0031 said:

Update:

I had to unfortunately drop this protocol as it seems I slowly got more and more sensitive to the ethyl oleate that pharmacom puts in their propionate. I started getting itching spells, slowly worsening sleep, and other histamine intolerance symptoms again. And yet, they still were no where near as bad as how BB makes me feel

I did get bloods before choosing to drop the protocol however:

Taken at 8am, 11 hours post injection:

TT: 946 ng/dl
FT: 25. 5 ng/dl
SHBG: 26 (actually rose which was really surprising and cool!)
Estradiol: 35

Feelings: other than the allergies this protocol felt great. I’m going to be on the hunt for solvent free propionate that I can get compounded or UGL (not preferred) that doesn’t contain ethyl oleate. I may try this protocol again after going back to being more hardcore on my histamine intolerance protocol. I’ve began to remove histamine producing foods and restarted my yogurt with the strain BB536 was has been shown to reduce histamine. Also making beet kvass with L. plantarum 299v. Any other histamine reducing tips anyone has I’d appreciate. I really want to make this protocol work for me!

My current protocol will then be testosterone enanthate at 36mg 3x for around 100mg. Very unfortunate ending to this protocol but I was starting to get an allergic reaction.

I will potentially attempt this protocol again after fully addressing histamine intolerance and doing some research.

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Did you get any PIP from the prop with no BB?
Do you think you would feel better if it was made with MCT oil, no BB and no EO or would MCT oil make the prop act too quickly?

Forty2 said:

Did you get any PIP from the prop with no BB?
Do you think you would feel better if it was made with MCT oil, no BB and no EO or would MCT oil make the prop act too quickly?

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I've been using prop in MCT oil for some time now and I don't notice any issues I could relate to a shorter half-life.

Forty2 said:

Did you get any PIP from the prop with no BB?
Do you think you would feel better if it was made with MCT oil, no BB and no EO or would MCT oil make the prop act too quickly?

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No PIP whatsoever luckily. If you can find MCT prop without BB and EO please lmk

Pnw0031 said:

Update:

I had to unfortunately drop this protocol as it seems I slowly got more and more sensitive to the ethyl oleate that pharmacom puts in their propionate. I started getting itching spells, slowly worsening sleep, and other histamine intolerance symptoms again. And yet, they still were no where near as bad as how BB makes me feel

I did get bloods before choosing to drop the protocol however:

Taken at 8am, 11 hours post injection:

TT: 946 ng/dl
FT: 25. 5 ng/dl
SHBG: 26 (actually rose which was really surprising and cool!)
Estradiol: 35

Feelings: other than the allergies this protocol felt great. I’m going to be on the hunt for solvent free propionate that I can get compounded or UGL (not preferred) that doesn’t contain ethyl oleate. I may try this protocol again after going back to being more hardcore on my histamine intolerance protocol. I’ve began to remove histamine producing foods and restarted my yogurt with the strain BB536 was has been shown to reduce histamine. Also making beet kvass with L. plantarum 299v. Any other histamine reducing tips anyone has I’d appreciate. I really

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Pnw0031 said:

No PIP whatsoever luckily. If you can find MCT prop without BB and EO please lmk

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That's good. OK I'll let you know.
I'm surprised that prop powder can be fully dissolved in just MCT oil and 1% BA.

FunkOdyssey said:

I've been using prop in MCT oil for some time now and I don't notice any issues I could relate to a shorter half-life.

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Are you also dosing at 12mg before bed?

Forty2 said:

Are you also dosing at 12mg before bed?

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18-20 mg in the morning.

interesting. i've switched from empower prop (which is gone) to UGL prop on MCT oil. noticed slights improvements TBH. grape seed oil is nasty and i wonder if some people don't react well to that

t_spacemonkey said:

interesting. i've switched from empower prop (which is gone) to UGL prop on MCT oil. noticed slights improvements TBH. grape seed oil is nasty and i wonder if some people don't react well to that

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Same, ironic isn't it.

Pnw0031 said:

Update:

I had to unfortunately drop this protocol as it seems I slowly got more and more sensitive to the ethyl oleate that pharmacom puts in their propionate. I started getting itching spells, slowly worsening sleep, and other histamine intolerance symptoms again. And yet, they still were no where near as bad as how BB makes me feel

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That's a shame. Are you sure it was the EO? It sounded like you were on the protocol for 4 weeks before the itching started. Prop takes very little time to build up in system so you would think that any allergic reaction would have occurred within the first several days.

Willyt said:

That's a shame. Are you sure it was the EO? It sounded like you were on the protocol for 4 weeks before the itching started. Prop takes very little time to build up in system so you would think that any allergic reaction would have occurred within the first several days.

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I am going to give it a break while going back on a low histamine protocol then giving it a try again. I will say, other than the itching, I didn’t have my typical histamine reaction of anxiety, nervousness, insomnia, feeling “off” (almost like I’m high from running on adrenaline 24/7), bp fluctuations from very low to relatively high (when I have histamine issues bad my average systolic goes from my normal 120 to 150 during adrenaline dumps), among other things. I felt really good overall, a little bit of fatigue but not necessarily poor sleep or sickness fatigue. I almost wonder if it was from my body finally chilling out. Or was it me itching myself in my sleep LOL. Sleep was actually a bit easier for me on the protocol. I’ve struggled with insomnia since I was very young. I’m very sensitive to most supplements causing insomnia and nervousness for me. Libido was great, bp was great, joints felt good. Genuinely felt like it was my best protocol.

Outside of trt, its probably wise for me to return to a low histamine diet in general. I’ve since restarted making yogurt with the specific strain Bifidobacteria logum BB536 which has both studies and anecdotal evidence of reducing histamine, inflammation and is a cornerstone bacteria a lot of people are missing. I can share a recipe in this thread or a separate one for anyone curious. You really need to eat fermented foods to get the benefits of certain strains over just taking a probiotic pill. Doing a ton of cardio also seems to reduce histamine symptoms for me and is obviously healthy regardless. I’ve been slacking a bit on cardio, I get 10k steps in a day but I need to return to rucking, biking, swimming and pick up hockey.

I’m also curious if prop increases my hct more than other esters, causing itching. I unfortunately did not get any other tests outside of hormone levels, so I do not know what my hct was on this protocol. However, I naturally produce higher hct than most people and I live in the dry high mountain deserts of Arizona- both elevation and lack of humidity have been shown to increase hct even if well hydrated. I admittedly haven’t gotten therapeutic phlebotomy in over a year when I’m an at risk population who really should get them every 3 months. On enanthate my natural level falls around 51%. I don’t smoke and drink over a gallon of water a day. I also do have naturally dry skin which sucks in Arizona. But I felt that layers and layers of cerave were unable to fix the itching onslaught.

I am concerned about the EO when it comes to systemic inflammation but I don’t believe I was struggling with inflammation issues. I will test hs-crp before restarting this protocol and again 3 weeks in. Could be the delayed reaction was the EO building up in my body.

I’m still on the deep hunt for EO and BB free prop in GSO. I’m hoping that when I move my family to Washington, the land of compounding medicine and eternal rain for my dry skin and hct, I’ll have much better options. I’ve tried contacting compounding pharmacies in the Valley, however they either don’t carry prop anymore nor will they do solvent free prop. I called one compounding pharmacy in Bellevue, WA today out of curiosity, and they said they’d consider it after speaking with whatever endo I work with there. Some states are better than others when it comes to compounding and trt in general and Arizona is not one of them! I can’t wait to return to my home state soon is all I got to say lol.

All in all, I think taking a step back for a second and getting full lab work as well as getting stricter about lifestyle is the right move for now. I see pharmacom as a bridge for now until I get a compounded version

@FunkOdyssey I wonder how you felt on this form of prop despite the poor lab result with hs-crp.